Early CMPs in NW Europe

[Lang]

Wonder why half the trucks have a left headlight and half have a right. Probably some dreamworld instruction which said to remove a headlight to reduce the chance of being spotted at night! They obviously didn't do a good job and failed to say which light. I wonder how many head on collisions they had when oncoming drivers had to decide whether a truck had his centre light on or was actually in the middle of the road with his outside light on?

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Lang

Wonder why half the trucks have a left headlight and half have a right. Probably some dreamworld instruction which said to remove a headlight to reduce the chance of being spotted at night! They obviously didn't do a good job and failed to say which light. I wonder how many head on collisions they had when oncoming drivers had to decide whether a truck had his centre light on or was actually in the middle of the road with his outside light on?

Good question Lang-

As I understand the reason for a single headlight dates to early in the war when Blackout night driving was the rule. Pattern 13 CMPs were supplied with a single headlight equipped with a black out cover. If vehicle was in British control area (Drive on the left) the headlight was installed in the left side headlight position, as I understand it to provide the minimal lighting to see the left verge of the road. When operating in a US Army area of control (drive on the right) the light would be installed in the right hand position again to give the drive the best light to keep to the right verge. At some point the Pattern 13 were supplied with two head lights. These were switch individually wired so that the one with black out cover had to be turned on first, and then the second switch turned on the clear light.

Once black out rules were lifted then I assume some of the earlier CMPs had a second head light installed. I have heard that once on the continent the rule was drive on the right. Some units may have changed over single head light to the right while others may have left it in the left position and removed the black out covers and kept the headlight in the right position the better to light the entire road.

Just to confuse things of about the clear headlight, they started black out headlights with covers with the swing cover door to make the lights more convertible.

My late `45 HUP has the two headlights and two switches with a blackout headlight mounted in the right position. Having driven my HUP on many blackout trail rides I have tried both sides for the black out head light and given the choice I sure the drivers mounted the black out headlight on the driver’s side. From personal experience I can tell you that when driving with black out lights they drove with the window shield either part open or full open the better to see the road. In tight/narrow road condition black out road speeds are low rarely out of second gear.

There is some great information about driving under blackout conditions I believe in the New Zealand archives, I try and find the link to it. Some really wonderful descriptions of blackout convoys in North Africa.

[Lang]

Thanks for all that Phil.

I think, like many things, the black-out regulatons were a disorganised shambles throughout the war and the reasons for subjecting vehicles to such dangerous and inconvenient restrictions were illconceived.

I can understand restricted TOTAL blackout on vehicles positioning troops, guns etc for night attacks or say crossing areas under the direct field of fire of the enemy but convoys in rear areas???? The oft quoted protection from aircraft is a myth. During WW2 low level strafing on anything other than a full moonlit night (or the light of a burning city) was a quick way to a pilot's grave. Of course that has changed now and trucks may as well drive with spotlights given the night vision capability of modern aircraft.

I am sure the Red Ball Express and similar operations dis not crawl along blacked out. Blackout operations seem to be a particular fetish of the British as there appears to be much more about this in Commonwealth information and photos than American.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Is that a Cab 11/12 CMP following the M3A1 Scout Car?

Source: Eindhoven liberated

[cletrac (RIP)]

It looks like it and with no roof hatch it would likely be a Cab 11. Judging by the height of the canvas top on the box it would have to be a 15 cwt too.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by cletrac

It looks like it and with no roof hatch it would likely be a Cab 11. Judging by the height of the canvas top on the box it would have to be a 15 cwt too.

Thanks, my thoughts too!

H.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Winschoten, The Netherlands.

source: "De Canadezen in Nederland 44-45", written by David Kaufman and Michiel Horn.

[Alex van de Wetering]

The Hague, Holland, 1945

Source: www.niod.nl

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

The Hague, Holland, 1945
Source: www.niod.nl

Same pic, now featured on the beeldbankwo2.nl:

Image number: 73406
Collection: Nederlands Instituut voor Oorlogsdocumentatie
Caption: Den Haag.
Keywords: Dutch Armed Forces;Princess Irene Brigade;Vehicles

Are these really Princess Irene Brigade vehicles?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

CGT Cab 12 at Leeuwarden, 15 April 1945.

Source: http://www.beeldbankwo2.nl/

Image number: 121758
Collection: Verzetsmuseum Friesland
Caption: Op 15 april 1945 werd Leeuwarden door de Canadese Strijdkrachten bevrijd. Om even over twaalf uur rolden de gevechtswagens van de 'Royal Canadian Dragoons', zonder dat er een schot gelost werd, langs de Groningerstraatweg de stad binnen. Hier ziet men een gevechtswagen met daarachter een stuk geschut in de Sint Jacobsstraat. Aan de andere kant van de straat is de winkel van poelier P. de Jong gevestigd.
Image Date: 15-04-1945

[Alex van de Wetering]

source: www.archivesnormandie39-45.org

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Found on this forum, while searching for something else. Picture was taken in Rotterdam.

Originally Posted by nuyt

pic 63 is the one: HQ No 1 Provost Company, 79th (Division?-sorry no expert on this one) in my neighbourhood (Rdam West).

The people you see digging the soil are looking for fuel substitutes.

H.

[Hendrik van Oorspronk]

Just see the movies and find them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFi_140U_Go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMJ84CtEXbw

Groetn

Hendrik

[Larry Hayward]

Seeing early CMPs being used with other vehicles makes me wonder how vehicles were allocated in the British and Commonwealth Armies. Did units just get allocated he first 15 cwt or 3 tonner that was available from the vehicle park or was there any planning around putting common types together to make spares easier allocate? Photos seem to show a mix of types, so any typical unit might have a Ford WOT and a CMP 15 cwt and as for the RASC it seems many photos show a mix of CMPs and UK built types like the Bedford OY, which in todays world seems odd.