CGT Restoration - Update

[Walde Libera]

Yes, at that time I was a mechanical trainer for our bus company so I had liberal use of training room equipment, clear benches, stumps, space. The transmission behind the stump is a B400R Allison, 6 speed with retarder, thats the hose your referring to. I used to work on sub assemblies after work for a couple hours every day. Now I run a depot for the company with 190 buses equipped with Duramax, Detroits, Cummins and Allison transmissions. I do most of my work at home now.
Bob, I did use the white stuff on the transfer case shifter, see! Also attached is the pic of the running 235 I bought for $300 out of a 62 Biscayne. I still did a tear down and rebuilt the engine, valve grind, re-ring, bearings, seal and gaskets.

[Bob Carriere]

..... I envy your skill set......

...and are you sure that's not Mayonaise you used on the shifter!!!!

Bob

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by Walde

Yes, at that time I was a mechanical trainer ....Also attached is the pic of the running 235 I bought for $300 out of a 62 Biscayne. I still did a tear down and rebuilt the engine, valve grind, re-ring, bearings, seal and gaskets.

Hi Walde

I'm running in a 235 prior to putting it in my `41 Pattern 12 C60L, this is a complete rebuild including boring the cylinders, hardened valves whole new valve train, turned crank, new rods and pistons. PS my shop is not as clean as yours, in fact just after these videos were taken the oil line T on the side going to the pressure gage and oil filter broke off. Fortunately I was standing at the control panel when this black line appeared between the side of the engine and the wall of the shop. Solid stream of oil 3 quarts of oil out before I could hit the kill switch. My shop ended up with one wall covered in oil along with one work bench and my stock of steel sheets.

Working on engines when they are mounted in a CMP is such a bear that I really like to run the engines in on the test stand to get as many of the bugs out as possible. Once had to pull an engine back out of a CMP with only 20 minutes of road time because a rear main seal leaked.

Look at the bottom of the page for 235 Video link http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ineTesting.htm

[Walde Libera]

Phil

Thanks, for the feedback, fantastic info sharing on your site. I bench tested the 235 in the chassis as it still has no body on it, as close as I can get to your set up. No major issues except the flimsy rocker cover gaskets take a bit of tweaking to seal properly and a few configuration modifications. Water pump relocation mod and the throttle linkage. Bought an adapter plate from ebay which took care of the water pump issue.

Just a few pics of the engine. Bores were pretty good, ridge removal and honed for crosshatch. I painted the engine a very light grey although its looks almost white, it will probably age into grey colour like me. Then I installed the 235 it in the chassis for a test run. The original rocker cover was re-used by swapping the adapter studs to give it a more original appearance. 6 volt starter swapped over easily too. The only thing that didn't work was the oil pan so I had to use the original 235 pan. My original 216 is still in bits, not sure what to do with it, scrap or partially assemble it for a display at one of our shows hanging of a tow truck?

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Walde

If you 216 is the original or even if it has the original accessories hold on to it or offer the bits up to us other CMPers as parts. If you have the original deep sump oil pan hold I'd be interested as some of the other will be as well.

Right now I'm looking at how to graft the deep sump onto a 235 or 261 pan and extend the pickup tube down.

Interested to hear that the 235/261 water pump adapter works well will be interested to here from some of the rest of our group that have these on trucks on the road how the actual cooling is. I have some concerns about the flow and distribution because the 261 are particularly prone to steam pockets.

Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

HI Phil

I was adamant that I would not remove my original in blcok 261 water pump for a reduced size external 216 pump.....come hell or high water.

Well watewr rose too hight and I gave in........ Grant and I worked two full days trying to make the fan blade fit.... can't remember how many model we tried.... different deep shalow pulleys.... HELL you cannot fit a 261 original water pump and the original trottle in a CMP without some big shoe horn.

Even with the adapter plate it took some trick to fit the linkage for the gas to go underneath the water elbow to the block.

I am not sure yet if it will be sufficient to keep everything cool enough but if a problem arises I would be more tempted to increase the engine oil capacity and use an oil cooler than rip the tight fitting cab 11 engine bay area apart. I will be running two full size PH 8 spin on filters mounted inside the frame underneath the passenger side......

Tell us how did you manage the linkage and water pump in your cab 12..... you got a 235 in there correct... same as a 261 or did you use an early 235 with the old pump....



Grant will be facing the same issue with his 261 cab 13 arrangement.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bob


Just started working on the throttle linkage for the 235 and Pattern 12. I originally put a 1953 216 in the Pattern 12 and the water pump and thermostat housing were enough different that the original throttle cross over shaft would not fit period. I fabricated a totally new cross over shaft assembly.

The 235 is still running in on the test stand, I’m addressing several little issues. I’ve got 10+ hours on the clock now on this engine and just as with the one other rope rear main seal engines after running for some real time it has started to weep just a little. Just enough that with a clean piece of paper on the drip pan on the test stand I can see a fine line of oil drops after the engine has run for an hour. So I’ve got to do some real checking to see what is causing the leak, though they ground the crank and fitted all new bearings during the rebuild machine work, I forgot to tell them to grind the rear main seal surface. If that is the cause then the fix is simple speed-sleeve over the seal area. That was the fix on the 1953 216 and it has worked well. What is strange is that there is more oil on the left side of the bell housing than on the right, this might mean two things that I can think of one that the oil passage plug on that side is leaking or that the oil is leaking bye on only one side of the rear main, I can not remember if I shimmed the rear main. If the rear main surface is smooth and clean then I’ll just replace the rope and be extra careful of fitting of the seal. I really don’t think the replacement gasket is as good as the original.

I’m going to replace the exhaust valve rotators to see if I can get rid of a click. Did a compression test on the 235 this afternoon with the engine fully warmed up about 190 degrees all of the cylinders are right at 130 psi +/- 2.

I’ve got to clean the radiator on my test stand because it just can not get rid of the heat with the engine at 1500 rpm it comes up to 190 even with auxiliary cooling on the heater connections, I have to heater cores with a blower hooked up. I think my problem is that my main radiator fan just is not moving enough air. I’m getting a 15 degree drop across the main radiator and I’m getting a 20 degree across the heater cores. The 235 is running 180 thermostat.

I want to do these engine swap once each truck then I just want to drive the trucks for 30 years without touching the engines.

The reason I pick 30 years is that is how long I’ve driven my HUP without ever tearing the engine down. The 216 engine in the HUP has never been apart in all the time I’ve owned it. Engine leaks oil but it runs so nice that I hate to take it apart.

The 261 engine is just about complete, (missing of all things the oil drain plug) I’m going to run it in on the test stand with the correct 261 water pump. Then I’ll move over to the adapter type, really wish I had a flow meter that would tell us do they move the same amount of water.

Think your idea of adding an oil cooler may be a really good idea.

The guys I know who have re-engine there US military stuff with 261 have cheated and used 12 volt electric radiator fans and not bothered with all the conversion of the water pump. I’ve got to go take some pictures of how they did it.