Can you identify this truck?

[Glen]

This picture is of a truck at Abu Sultan near the Suez Canal in North Africa. My Grandfather on my Dad's side was with the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (British) and, according to his pay book, he was a "Driver I.C M.T." so I'm also assuming this is the vehicle he drove. I'm assuming further that I.C. M.T. might mean something like " Intensive Care Medical Truck or Team or something like that"

First of all: does anyone recognize the vehicle type?
Any suggestions as to what "Driver I.C. M.T." might mean?

Cheers,
Glen.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Glen

First of all: does anyone recognize the vehicle type?
Any suggestions as to what "Driver I.C. M.T." might mean?

Hi Glen,

That is a Morris Commercial ambulance with Mann Egerton bodywork. ICMT stands for Internal Combustion, Motor Transport ( I think, could be slightly wrong of course )

[austin tilly]

the Morris-Commercial CS11/30F to be precise

cheers,
Arjan van der Hoek

[Bernard Venners]

It sure is a Morris Commercial CS11 30 cwt. Iam currently restoring what I
believe to be a later model with vertical windscreen.The body of my ambulance
was built by Morris Commercial , not Mann Egerton. The spare wheel fits behind
the driver as in the Austin K2. There seems to be a shortage of good quality
photographs to help my reconstruction. Is mine the only one left ?

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Bernard Venners

It sure is a Morris Commercial CS11 30 cwt. Iam currently restoring what I
believe to be a later model with vertical windscreen.The body of my ambulance
was built by Morris Commercial , not Mann Egerton. The spare wheel fits behind
the driver as in the Austin K2. There seems to be a shortage of good quality
photographs to help my reconstruction. Is mine the only one left ?

I appreciate the information. A couple questions now from a newbie:

What does CMP mean?

Do the letters in CS11 30 cwt. stand for anything?

What does cwt. mean?

I see these abbreviations being used, but have no idea what they mean!

cheers,

Glen.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Glen

What does CMP mean?

CMP = Canadian Military Pattern as in the Old CMP site Here's the link.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Glen

Do the letters in CS11 30 cwt. stand for anything?

Glen

MCC model codes , I know some of it .

C = the 1933 C series range of MCC trucks . The military models were based ( to varying degrees ) on the C series range of civilian model vehicles .

S = 6 cylinder motor .. some civilian and military models had a 6 cyl. eg CS = C series with 6 cyl engine .

11= Approx. 11 feet wheelbase . They rounded off the wheelbase eg. CS8 has a 8' 2" wheelbase . CS11 has approx. 11 ' wheelbase .

Hope this helps

Mike

[cletrac (RIP)]

You guys forgot about cwt. This stands for hundredweight. For some reason a cwt is a little more than a hundred pounds. Therefore a 30 cwt is a little over 3000 pounds load capacity. In civvy truck terminology this would be a 1 1/2 ton truck.
By the way Glen, where are you from? This site is worldwide and it's nice to know where someone's located.

Originally Posted by cletrac

You guys forgot about cwt. This stands for hundredweight..

I might be able to help here:

c = Roman numeral for "100" and wt is of course weight.

For some reason a cwt is a little more than a hundred pounds.

Some of us over 50 will remember interminably chanting the weight relationships at school. . . . Anyway cwt comes from here:
16oz ~ 1lb
14lb ~ 1st (stone)
2st ~ one quarter (28lb)
4qtr ~ 1cwt (112lb)
20cwt ~ 1ton (2240lb)

Up to our "metrication", commercial vehicles carried a large sign-written "plate" that defined the unladen and laden weights of the vehicle in tons, cwt, quarters and lbs; it needed to be large to get it all on!

For D-Day ship loading a similar format was used but only recorded the as-loaded vehicle weight and dimensions, a standard paint stencil was used with the various figures chalked-in. You can sometimes see this in period photographs.

To this day we refer to people weight in stones as kg only conveys anything to the medicos.

Therefore a 30 cwt is a little over 3000 pounds load capacity. In civvy truck terminology this would be a 1 1/2 ton truck.

A fair bit over 3000lb, being 3360lb.

R.

[Radek]

Originally Posted by Bernard Venners

It sure is a Morris Commercial CS11 30 cwt. Iam currently restoring what I
believe to be a later model with vertical windscreen.The body of my ambulance
was built by Morris Commercial , not Mann Egerton. The spare wheel fits behind
the driver as in the Austin K2. There seems to be a shortage of good quality
photographs to help my reconstruction. Is mine the only one left ?

Hi Bernard,
I have a few pictures of Morris Ambulance and many of K2 and Bedford. I will post to you when i will at home.
I have Austin K2 ambulance body and any spares, I am looking for rolling chassise for start the renovation.

Radek www.austincars.wz.cz

[Steve Guthrie]

Hi there

Driver IC MT stands for Driver, Internal Combustion, Motor Transport. This was a trade designation. The IC part dates to when the Army had horses and steam lorries AND internal combustion engines in use. The MT referrs to the fact this Driver IC was trained to drive and maintain cars, trucks and lorries. Another designation was Driver IC Tank, which meant he was trained to drive and maintain tanks.

[Radek]

Originally Posted by Bernard Venners

It sure is a Morris Commercial CS11 30 cwt. Iam currently restoring what I
believe to be a later model with vertical windscreen.The body of my ambulance
was built by Morris Commercial , not Mann Egerton. The spare wheel fits behind
the driver as in the Austin K2. There seems to be a shortage of good quality
photographs to help my reconstruction. Is mine the only one left ?

Hi Bernard,
I thing do you know this http://www.tech-designz.com/k2ambulance.htm
and here are any pictures of Morris what i have.
Radek M.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Hundredweight: 112 lb as has been said, or one bag of cement!

Immediately pre-war and during the war, British military vehicles seem to have been in these categories:

TRUCKS:
8 cwt
10 cwt (1/2 ton/tonne)
15 cwt (3/4 ton/tonne)

LORRIES:
30 cwt (1 1/2 tons/tonnes)
3 tons
5 tons
etc.

I cannot recall seeing any 20-cwt/one-tonners now I think about it.

[PPS]

Was the FV 1601 not a 1 ton classification?

Or do you mean war-time vehicles?

Paul.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by PPS

Was the FV 1601 not a 1 ton classification?
Or do you mean war-time vehicles?

Paul,

Post war, a 1 ton category was introduced and in the 4x2 class there were Commer and Bedford, then the 4x4, Humber as you mentioned, also Austin K9 and Morris Commercial MRA1. Wartime 15cwt trucks that continued in service were re-classified as 1 ton, for example the Morris Commercial C8 4x4.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Richard Notton

Some of us over 50 will remember interminably chanting the weight relationships at school. . . .

And I got a wack over the knuckles from a bitch attired in black robes from head to foot , if I forgot those weight tables .
Catholic schools were charming and delightful places to spend ones childhood .

Mike

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

And I got a wack over the knuckles from a bitch attired in black robes from head to foot , if I forgot those weight tables .
Catholic schools were charming and delightful places to spend ones childhood .

Ah you had one of those too Mike and I thought only New Zealand had them!

[Keith Brooker]

Morris used in German Ambulance unit.

Austin used by Germans.
Photos are from my own collection of British Trucks, Cars, Ect used by the German army.


1944 Morris C8 GS
1938 Humber used as a staff Car

[Glen]

You guys forgot about cwt. This stands for hundredweight. For some reason a cwt is a little more than a hundred pounds. Therefore a 30 cwt is a little over 3000 pounds load capacity. In civvy truck terminology this would be a 1 1/2 ton truck.
By the way Glen, where are you from? This site is worldwide and it's nice to know where someone's located.

I'm in Toronto, Canada. Thanks for the info guys. I really appreciate being filled in on the stuff I don't know yet like the acronyms, etc.

Glen.

[Lynn Eades]

How about posting your location on your profile so that when you post, it comes up each time. It helps all of us to know where the person is that we are talking to.
Welcome to the forum.