Carrier Brake problems

[Lynn Eades]

Yes Bob. near enough.
Jordan, when you do your jeep follow the same guide lines.
The trailing shoes (rear in all 4 hubs) have shorter linings, Than the leading shoes (front shoe in all 4 hubs)
Also the rear wheel cylinders have a smaller bore size than the front wheel cylinders.
If you want to know why, I'll explain.
By the way, every thing in your carrier axle assy other than the brakes, drum, and backing plates, is all standard Ford, exactly the same as a normal Ford 3 ton truck axle.

[rob love]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
Hi Rob

From the pictures posted of the seals and your written description it sounds like identical parts/process to a regular CMP rear brake drum and parts... save for the sprocket bolted on the drum....

Are my assumptions correct...?

Bob

They are so similar, that the early carrier axles even have the spring mounts welded on to the axle tubes.

One thing that is different is that the carrier used the chevy type outer bearing seal to keep the oil out of the bearings. A ford truck had the seals inside the axle tubes, and there was a corresponding machined surface on the axles near the spline.

[Jordan Baker]

Well good news all around

I picked up some NOS brake shoes today. They matched up perfectly to the ones I removed other then the pading being much thicker.

I also removed the bearings and seals from the hubs. I ended up destroying one of the seals as it would not come out easily. It had a bit of rust holding it in and thankfully I have two spares. I cleaned up the bearings and repacked them tonight while watching some TV. I also cleaned out the old grease inside the hubs.

Tomorrow I am going to get the brake backing plate cleaned up and painted along with the inside of the drums.


Rob, you mentioned....

Clean out the inside of the metal cone attahced to the backing plate, and also clean out the little pee hole at the bottom of the cone. This will allow any oil or grease that do sneak past the seal to go outside of the drums and away from the shoes.

I removed both cones and cleaned them up along with all the crud that had built up over the previous 60 years. However I could find nothing of this small pee hole. Is it on the cone or the backing plate?

[Lynn Eades]

It is at the bottom(in side) the tin shield which is still bolted to your backing plate. This is a good time to make sure your back plates are tight. the holes in the back plates are slotted where they bolt to the axle(+ tin shield).
The purpose of this set up is to take any leak from the inner hub seal into that tin shield, and out through the hole to run down the back of the back plate. it is a "tell tale" hole but they do block up pretty quickly.

[Jordan Baker]

I will take a closer look tomorrow. I took those cones/tin shields off and have repainted them. There was no hole on them other then the ones for the bolts to pass through.

About how big is the hole on the backing plate then? Does it just leak down the inside of the backing plate or the outside?

[Lynn Eades]

Scratch around between the bottom two bolt holes that hold your axle housing to the backing plate, just at the curved line of the gunge that was inside the tin shield. May be 1/4" or 5/16" hole

[rob love]

50 years of collecting will almost solidify the stuff that collects in the pee hole area. Between the oil from the hub, the clay thrown up from the driving, and the heat of the axles, it almost acts like a kiln. As Lynn has directed, it should be between the bottom two holes.

Must be nice to be able to find NOS parts like brake shoes. Out here it seems we are at the pleasure and mercy of the modern day rebuilders.

I too, took the time to clean and paint everything inside of my brakedrums. Funny how a collector will do that to a part of his vehicle that nobody will ever see, yet cant clean out the junk from inside his everyday car.

[carrierbarry]

I think we are all at it, it most be that time of year to have a go at the brakes!

I have found my expander assembly like the one posted on the 4th dec by Jordan had stuck. ( the one that is linked to the steering/ brake pedal)
I also noticed it was loose on the back plate. Is this correct ?should it be able to move so as to centre the shoes? or should it be bolted tight?

[Lynn Eades]

Yes it floats, but not loosely.
It should have first a special spring washer ( one that sort of does 2 laps instead of one) then a flat washer, and then, the nut with a split pin.

[Jordan Baker]

The maint manual shows how to properly adjust the expander unit so that it will float.

The washer that Lynn talks about is shown in the expander picture on the first page. All of the parts are there except for the two cotter pins.

[carrierbarry]

Anybody got a any ideas for a modern replacement for the leather gaiter that sits behind the Brake expander.
As I guess NOS won't be around.

[Jordan Baker]

Get in touch with Brian Asbury of Acton, ON.

He might still have them. I got a set from him a few years ago. They were NOS and mint.

Do a search on the forum from him and you should be able to find a phone number / email

[rob love]

I have used the rubber boots from the front of a master cylinder. I don't recall the application right now, but I believe Wagner or some of the other brands have catalog's giving all the dimensions. Check it out at your local NAPA.
However, if Brian Asbury has them, I would go that route first.

[Jordan Baker]

Barry

Im not sure if you managed to find those leather brake boots yet but if you haven't Brian Asbury still has them. At the OMVA show yesterday he had about 3-4 sets on his table. I dont remember the price unfourtunately.

Anyway as I had been able to locate any springs for the shoes I started looking around on the web again last night. Suddenly my brain clicked and I checked Macs Auto Parts. Would you believe they sell them. I checked the length of mine and they are the same and at $2.00 the price is great. I have ordered 8 and will post up how they work out once they arrive.

Here is the link to the parts description if someone wants to look.

http://www.parts123.com/parts123/yb....Z5Z5Z50000021D

[murraybaker]

Jordan,
how did you do with your brakes? I got my drums turned last summer, I think it cost $150 for the pair. They quoted me $135 to repad the brakes but I used my spare set instead of doing it. Murray

[Jordan Baker]

Once the springs arrive and I can get everything back together I will let you guy no how much better my turns are.

Murray, did you go to the OMVA show? I didn't see you there this year.

[carrierbarry]

Jordan how did you get on with those springs?
I've just pulled my brake drum off and both springs are broken.
Anybody got any spare ones for a MKII canadian carrier they want to sell?


Regards
Barry
London

[Jordan Baker]

Havn't got them yet. Will let everyone know when I do.

[Jordan Baker]

Hi everyone

Well I finally got around to installing the brake shoes back on the UC today. Besides my hands freezing and one of the aduster plungers continously falling to the ground everytime I tried to fit the shoes on everything went well.

As for the springs I only had to open up the ends of them a bit by forcing a bolt into them with the help of a vise. Out of the package they wouldn't seat properly on the little post that are on the backside of the shoes.

So far its , once I get the other side done it will be

[carrierbarry]

Jordan

Thanks for the tip about brake springs from Mac's.

I just recived some springs from Mac's, apart from opening the ends up a little did you have any other problems?

I haven't tried them yet but next to the old ones they look a little to long.

Regards

Barry
London. UK

[Jordan Baker]

Mine all installed fine. The actual coiled spring part was a bit shorter then the originals. But the overall length of the spring was the same.

I just go my hubs reinstalled yesterday. With a long weekend coming up Im hoping to get the brake linkages all back to speck.

[Jordan Baker]

With a long weekend coming up Im hoping to get the brake linkages all back to speck.

What a long weekend it was. Just the other day I managed to get the linkages back into the machine. I also used my new track jack to put the tracks back on. Oh it was sooo easy now that I have a proper tool to do this.

I did try out the steering/ brakes before putting the tracks on and the sprockets did stop as they were supposed to. However there seemed to be a bit of drag occasionaly. Perhaps once I get it out for a drive it will be better.

Thanks to all for the help in sorting out my brakes. Now if I could only get someone to check out those measurements on the 2 linkages I was asking about. I would be ever gratefull