Terrorist Cell arrested in Mississauga !!

[alleramilitaria]

thanks, but i am NO hero
i did 4 combat tours but again NO hero. just doing my job.
about the muslim brigade in bosnia. there was a serb hospital near seariavio (or how erver you spell it) with hundruds of military ans civilians seeking treatment in it. the musliam brigade over ran it and murdured EVERYONE in it. they hacked off arms, legs, disimbauled the nurses and choped up the doctors. this was after they formaly surendered and had white flags flying from the buildings. CNN refused to cover it due to the fact that they wanted the bosnian army to win. this brigade is still in bosnia, NOT disarmed and NOT answering to the bosnian government. it still gets arms, and gear from ..... IRAN. this is not secret, its not covered up. its happening in the open in plane sight.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
thanks, but i am NO hero
i did 4 combat tours but again NO hero. just doing my job.
about the muslim brigade in bosnia. there was a serb hospital near seariavio (or how erver you spell it) with hundruds of military ans civilians seeking treatment in it. the musliam brigade over ran it and murdured EVERYONE in it. they hacked off arms, legs, disimbauled the nurses and choped up the doctors. this was after they formaly surendered and had white flags flying from the buildings. CNN refused to cover it due to the fact that they wanted the bosnian army to win. this brigade is still in bosnia, NOT disarmed and NOT answering to the bosnian government. it still gets arms, and gear from ..... IRAN. this is not secret, its not covered up. its happening in the open in plane sight.

Dave, I've heard similar from others who have been there... at least what's happening in Iraq and Af'stan is getting some publicity in the media.

This not meant to be a facetious statement, but if I were physically fit, I would feel privileged to take my place in the line with our troops who are currently engaged, despite my age. But, alas, this will not be. I will forever wonder...

BTW, you DO need the services of a spelchekker...

[alleramilitaria]

geoff
i hate to tell you this but the "front line" runs right through central canada now!!!!

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
..... a bit of leg pulling on my part directed at Karmen.

Cheers

Yeah, the oldtimer is ALWAYS pickin' on me! :

Karmen.

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
thanks, but i am NO hero
i did 4 combat tours but again NO hero. just doing my job.

I dare to strongly disagree with you Dave, that you DID DO YOUR JOB by actually serving and to me, that alone IS what makes you and all who serve heroes, as far as I'm concerned ... because to my mind, the majority of society does NOT go out on a limb as I feel we all should ideally do AND it's the the "going out on a limb by entering service IS the hero part, to me, because only a few men and women actually go that path for the rest of us!" Heroic acts happen where there are heroes and something happens in front of them and they take action.

Most of society is often selfish and paralyzed and would rather let the world fall down around their heads rather than risk actions that would save a lot of people. They'll sacrifice everyone else to protect their own selfish self-absorbed little interests ... a hero does the opposite ... so ... is ya go out on a limb prepared to risk having to do heroic acts, you're my HERO whether you did anything heroic or mnot, you were there to do it if it came up!

There. I'm done.

Karmen.

[Ponysoldier]

From a bunch of old timers Welcome Home,thanks for your
service....
Patrick

[sapper740]

The overarching obstacle to fighting global Islamic terrorism is ending Moslem people's ignorance of Western values and culture and their government's fight to keep them uninformed.
I noticed this first hand after befriending several Syrians while serving in the Golan heights. Syria was, and is, even after the death of Hafez Assad, still very much a police state. Access to outside news and information is tightly controlled by the State to keep the Syrian people from being tainted by thoughts of personal liberty and democracy. In Damascus, there is a silver merchant who goes by the name of "Silver Mike". Any fellow Canadians who served with UNDOF will know him well. He was friendly and relatively knowledgeable of the world through his contacts with the many countries that have comprised UNDOF over the years. Syrian silversmiths are some of the best in the world and make a beautiful and intricate silver chain we called "Bird's nest" I wanted to import jewelry to Canada after my tour in the Middle East and Silver Mike was more than willing to join in a commercial venture that may see him greatly expand his sales. I noticed he had a computer and asked if he had Internet access. "Sadly, no," he responded. Mike told me he has applied to the government for Internet access and is still waiting for an answer. "How long since you applied?", I asked. "Two years ago!", came Mike's reply! I guess not even Baksheesh will get you Internet access in an Islamic police state! I kept Mike's address and attempted to contact him by Post after my return to Canada, but all letters were returned as "Undeliverable" I also made attempts to stay in touch with friends I made in Homs and Khan Arnabe, all unsuccessful after I finished my tour.
My time in the Middle East opened my eyes to the real hurdle to fighting terrorism. Ignorance! The more any Moslem in Syria knew about the West, the less he was likely to hate us. And I'm not just talikng about merchants who were hoping to fleece us of our money, I'm talking about the many soldiers, officers, school kids, waiters, Bedouins, government officials, fire fighters, and just plain folk I met on the streets in Syria.
Under the umbrella of the despotic governments in the Middle East, terrorism thrives. Hamas and Hezbollah et al carry on with government support. In a system that the Nazis would envy, Islamic fundamentalist schools, under the guise of providing education and meals for the children, keep a continous supply of martyrs available for the terrorists.
The only answer I see to ending the growth of Islamic terrorism is education. At least two or three generations of education. And how do we convince the governments of the Arab countries to allow free thought in their education system and daily lives of their citizens? We turf the bastards out by force, if necessary and institute democracies in all the countries of the world.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

By the way,good thread Sapper on letting us know the innards of Syrian state.

Caught part of a TV program about a new party in the UK called the BNP party.There's a small town in the midlands that has two churches but the little town is about to get it's fifth built mosque.They interviewed a BNP member and some young Brits.Apparently the town is divided like northern Ireland.The arabs don't go into white areas and vice versa.The show goes on to Amsterdam where in a year after being elected this Dutch lady (never caught her name) has had 25,000 arabs deported.

[John McGillivray]

In a report on the radio this morning, it was stated that some of whose arrested (including some minors) were not immigrants to Canada, but were Canadian born converts to Islam.
One of them served for four years in the Royal Regiment of Canada. Two of whose named were Steven Vikash Chand and Jahmaal James.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

[alleramilitaria]

for anyone who has to listen to the whiners about not winning the war on terror here is some ammo. 17 raids yesterday in baghdad, the Z man was killed and many many others captured!!!! the lion of baghdad was killed hiding behind the skirts of a woman and child, now thats a real warior

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

The building this rat was hiding in was attacked by two F-16 Freedom fighters,where they dropped two 500 Lb smart bombs.The little Jordanian rat never knew what hit him,and that is the sad part,especially after this scumbag cut off a brit's head.This rat deserved a long slow excrusiating death.Pity.
Now where's the other rat,Osama.Hope they catch this fellow ALIVE !!

[Ponysoldier]

I just cant bring myself to listen to those people any more.
The life and death of everyones soldiers mean nothing
to them,only who is going to be in office next time thru.
Z was nothing but a coward hiding behind a womans skirts
but we knew that anyhow,as it is common behavior, for
that type
Patrick

In the news they said the arrested guys were going to have bail hearings (on the 12th???) ... considering the National Security seriousness of the charges and information they already have on these guys, I can't imagine any of them being allowed to be released on bail at all. I hope there's no risk of them being released? That would be absolutely insane.

Is the reason that they even have bail hearings AT ALL simply because every person has the right to at least a bail hearing and them's the rules so they have to go through the motions even knowing bail will not be considered?

I've never had to deal with police, courts and law ... only from the side of me calling on the cops for assistance or to report a problem happening, and once had to give a witness report. The criminal side, I know nothing about the processes as I've never had to deal with it.

I don't include my experiences of working in the 5th floor Police Cafeteria in the Winnipeg Safety Building many decades ago ... and oh, yes, I've dated cops

Karmen.

[Ponysoldier]

I cant speak for laws north of the border,but here
it is an argument before the judge in which both sides
present for and against bail.Everything should be taken in
to consideration,that should include any nations security.
Personally I dont see them get released. From all that
Ive seen they were getting ready to strike any they got stupid.
Patrick

Originally posted by Ponysoldier
I cant speak for laws north of the border,but here
it is an argument before the judge in which both sides
present for and against bail.Everything should be taken in
to consideration,that should include any nations security.
Personally I dont see them get released. From all that
Ive seen they were getting ready to strike any they got stupid.
Patrick

Thanks Pat, I would hope they couldn't possibly released. The charges are just too dangerous and serious.

K.

This from Canoe site this morning. Here is one Muslim gentleman being very publically outspoken wanting to wake other Muslim people up to the costs of silence and inaction and the importance of taking responsibility and action from within.

K.

June 10, 2006

We Muslims have work to do
By SALIM MANSUR

Muslim Canadians, as Muslims elsewhere in Western societies, have felt increasingly besieged for some time now, both from outside their community and from within.

This sense of isolation, of being misrepresented and misunderstood, will inevitably deepen as the full story unfolds of the arrests of 17 Toronto-area Muslims on terrorism charges.

But whose fault is this? Let us, Muslims, be brutally honest.

We have inherited a culture of denial, of too often refusing to acknowledge our own responsibility for the widespread malaise that has left most of the Arab-Muslim countries in economic, political and social disrepair.

Statistics and intergovernmental reports over the past several decades have documented a gap, perhaps now unbridgeable, between Muslim countries and the advanced industrial democracies in the West.

In a recent "failed states index" published in the journal Foreign Policy (May/June 2006), Pakistan, for instance, is ranked among the top 10 failed states in the world -- ahead of Afghanistan. Pakistan is a Muslim country, a nuclear military power, but it can barely feed, clothe, educate and shelter its population.

The reports on the Arab countries are a dismal catalogue of entrenched tyrannies, failing economies, squandered wealth, gender oppression, persecution of minorities and endemic violence. The cleric-led regime in Iran seeks nuclear weapons and threatens to obliterate Israel, repress domestic opposition, and seek confrontation with the West.

Instead of acknowledging the reality of the Arab-Muslim world as a broken civilization, we Muslims tend to indulge instead in blaming others for our ills; deflecting our responsibilities for failures that have become breeding grounds of violence and terrorism.

Many of our intellectuals in public life and our religious leaders in mosques remain adept in double-speak, saying contrary things in English or French and then in Arabic or Farsi or Urdu.

We have made hypocrisy an art, and have spun for ourselves a web of lies that blinds us to the real world around us.

We seethe with grievances and resentment against the West, even as we have prospered in the freedom and security of Western democracies.

We have inculcated into our children false pride, and given them a sense of history that crumbles under critical scrutiny. We have burdened them with conflicting loyalties -- and now some of them have become our nightmare.

We preach tolerance yet we are intolerant. We demand inclusion, yet we practise exclusion of gender, of minorities, of those with whom we disagree.

We repeat endlessly that Islam is a religion of peace, yet too many of us display conduct contrary to what we profess.

We keep assuring ourselves and others that Muslims who violate Islam are a minuscule minority, yet we fail to hold this minority accountable in public.

A bowl of milk turns into curd with a single drop of lemon. The minuscule minority we blame is this drop of lemon that has curdled and made a shambles of our Islam, yet too many of us insist against all evidence our belief somehow sets us apart as better from others.

In Islam, we insist, religion and politics are inseparable. As a result, politics dominates our religion -- and our religion has become a cover for tribalism and nationalism.

We regularly quote from the Koran, but do not make repentance for our failings as the Koran instructs, by seeking forgiveness of those who we have harmed.

We Muslims are the source of our own misery, and we are not misunderstood by others who see in our conduct a threat to their peace.

[Pedr]

A fantastic post....Thanks Karmen

I think that kinda fits in with what I was trying to say with my first post.

intollerance only breeds further intollerance.

Together we stand, divided we fall. This isn't a war against Islam - It's a war against intollerance and terrorism.

Pedr

Hi.

I'm thinking and hoping that all this stuff will end up getting more people in general, citizens, and groups, even neighborhoods, to wake up more on an overall level, and start taking more responsibility and accountability for any and all social and crime problems in their own little neighborhoods and groups ... even starting at home

I mentioned elsewhere something about if I knew my own kid was a terrorist/threat to everyone else I'd be the first to isolate and stop him/her, put her in jail, whatever ... and be heartbroken to do this ... what I didn't mention though, was if that fantasy were a reality, I'd also want to be right beside her ... I'm the Mom that birthed, loved, raised that child. Period.

But then, I don't ever really know for sure how I'd handle a situation like that unless faced with it ... if I felt my child to be "forever" totally lost to dark forces ... I don't think I'd could stand to sit there hoping for a re-awakening in the face of brick wall.

Good morning everyone

Karmen.

[John McGillivray]

A lot of the problems in the Middle East are caused by outside powers always interfering in the affairs of those countries. Iran is a perfect example. First there were the British and their oil interests. At the end of the Second World War the Soviets occupied the eastern part of the country. The agreement that got the Soviets out of Iran stated the country had to be non-aligned and would not let any foreign military into the country. But in the 1950’s along came the cold war and the Americans. They wanted to set up intel gathering post along the Iran – USSR border to keep a eye on the Russian missile and space programs. The Iranian government said no, because if they said yes, they would be going against the agreement that got the Soviets out of their country in 1945.

The CIA went into Iran and with the help of the British; they overthrew the Iranian government and put a dictatorship in its place, which was beholding to the US. That government, imprisoned and/or killed, or forced into exile, all those who offered any type of opposition to it. At the height of Americas influence the US had 50,000 military and civilian advisers in Iran. The Americans were running the country from the back rooms.

The only opposition group that the Shah of Iran could not get rid of the Clergy. When the Shah was overthrown they came to power by default, because they were the only ones left standing.

I was in Iran in 1980 when the Americans were being held. All of my dealings were with middle class professionals (geologists, engineers etc.). They were not happy with who had come to power in Iran, but they were also very angry with the US for creating the conditions which allowed the clerics to float to the top.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

You're quite right, Karmen - the fundamental principles of our civilisation are inviolate. Immigrants of whatever nationality and regardless of religion, need to learn this BEFORE they arrive here. Or don't come.

And once on the ground here, whether Canadian-born or otherwise, we have to assure that our rule-of-law prevails.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
This from Canoe site this morning. Here is one Muslim gentleman being very publically outspoken wanting to wake other Muslim people up to the costs of silence and inaction and the importance of taking responsibility and action from within.

K.

It's good to see a moderate Moslem speak up to state what I'm sure many believe but are afraid to publicly announce. Islam is in grave danger of being hijacked by extremists.

I wonder how long it will take for some Ayotollah to issue a fatwah ordering Salim Mansur's execution?

Originally posted by Pedr
A fantastic post....Thanks Karmen

I think that kinda fits in with what I was trying to say with my first post.

intollerance only breeds further intollerance.

Together we stand, devided we fall. This isn't a war against Islam - It's a war against intollerance and terrorism.

Pedr

Thanks Pedr ... I agree. I only wish everyone could see this through those eyes objectively.

One of my favorite little expressions is "Like for like only creates more of the same. IS that what you want? Or do you want change?"

It's a shame that the extremeness of terrorism needs extreme aggressive actions and violence to stop it immediately in order to prevent further violence and save lives. It's gotta be stopped NOW and there's the problem once it's begun. The only way to stop violence on that level seems to be violent means because the terrorists leave no room for any other means of stopping them from crimes against inncocent peoples. My way or the highway. They aren't into sitting down over a cup of coffee for a little democratic problem solving session and they have no flexibility and will sacrifice nothing but the rest of the world in order to have things their way.

Nothing is simple, is it? No surefire non-destructive immediate cures and it must be hell for our peaceloving people, our soldiers and others serving, to be forced to aggression and have to act like this to deal with them and this. People push your back to the wall and all thats left for hopes of survival is aggression.

I truly hate violence and war ... but respect its necessity sometimes and am very proud of those who rise to do what must be done when it has to be done. Heros.

Karmen.

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
You're quite right, Karmen - the fundamental principles of our civilisation are inviolate. Immigrants of whatever nationality and regardless of religion, need to learn this BEFORE they arrive here. Or don't come.

And once on the ground here, whether Canadian-born or otherwise, we have to assure that our rule-of-law prevails.

Morning Geoff

Thanks ....

I agree with everything you said here.

Judging by the problems and frustrations, and conflicts and demands, from all groups, I assume the rules are very ambiguous and not clearly specific/defined and stated around issues of being Canadian, and what is meant by non-discrimination and freedom to believe etc etc etc ...

I personally suspect that a lot of outcry/outrage, fights against "perceived discrimination" are simply people misunderstanding because of the ambiguousness of rules/wordings of rights and freedoms etc ... they may honestly feel discriminated against because the rules weren't clearly described and lines drawn for them ... which misunderstandings can probably be traced back to the ambiguity of the rules to begin with ... and look what a kaffuffle and waffling goes on when there is an outcry and an attempt to "please everybody" ...

Rules and roles are not clearly defined to begin with I think? So how the hell can they be clearly stated and clearly understood? Where are the lines??? Nobody really knows, or people think they know, but they don't, really.

I'm not just talking about rules for immigrants ... I'm talking about rules in general for ALL CANADIANS whether we moved here or were born here.

ooops... i went blah b;lah blah again

Originally posted by John McGillivray
A lot of the problems in the Middle East are caused by outside powers always interfering in the affairs of those countries.

Hi John,

I really don't know this particular histories, but when someone behaves extremely, I always have to wonder what fueled the extremism. Something did. Things escalate.

It matters.

And it's too late to stop the action and reaction spirals now except through aggressive means ... which also escalates things.

Its all pretty scarey.

K.

[Ponysoldier]

Lets not forget,a great deal of what is going on is
empire building which has been something that
has been going on over there for well over a 1,000
years. Not all of it is that of course but its still there.
Patrick

[sapper740]

Originally posted by John McGillivray
A lot of the problems in the Middle East are caused by outside powers

John, change the "are" in your quote to "were" and you'll have my agreement. The thing is, the problems now in a lot of these countries are 100% home grown created by the sovereign powers currently in control. I could bore you all by going through the list but time and space prohibit it. Suffice it to say that the radicalization of young Muslims, by their own people, clerics and governments are going to be the death knell for peace in those countries.

CHIMO!

[John McGillivray]

I think that I chose the correct word. Events that took place even as long as a century ago are still having an effect to this day. There are also counties like Iran and Saudi Arabia who are actively exporting their distorted versions of Islam.

Have you seen the latest news out of Somalia?

Militia claims capture of Somalia's capital
Updated Mon. Jun. 5 2006 11:27 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff
An Islamic militia says it has captured Somalia's capital from the alliance of warlords that have controlled Mogadishu for the past 15 years.
The Islamic Courts Union appeared to be in control of the capital, expanding on territory they have gained in a recent surge of violence that has killed about 350 people since February.
Sheik Sharif Sheik Ahmed, chairman of the Islamic Courts Union, told the AFP news agency this is a "new era for Mogadishu."
"The Joint Islamic Courts are not interested in a continuation of hostilities and will fully implement peace and security after the change has been made by the victory of the people with the support of Allah," Ahmed said in a statement broadcast over local radio stations.
The warlords are reportedly fleeing Mogadishu, as are civilians, who frequently get caught in the cross-fire.
The alliance of warlords have controlled Mogadishu since 1991, when they overthrew longtime dictator Mohamed Siad Barre. They are widely believed to be supported by the United States.
The most recent bout of fighting began earlier this year when the warlords, who had divided the capital into rival fiefdoms, united to battle the Islamic Courts, who they accuse of having links to al Qaeda.
The Islamic Courts deny this, and say their goal is to restore Sharia law in the city. They have also long said the warlords were being backed by the CIA.
Washington has not said whether it has backed the warlords, and has stressed its commitment to the transitional government, operating in Baidoa, 225 kilometres northwest of Mogadishu.
According to the BBC website, Interim Prime Minister Ali Mohammed Ghedi fired four warlords who had been serving as ministers in his government.
Calls for the warlords to step down had been intensifying as violence in Mogadishu began to rise last month. But the warlords refused, so they were let go.
Ghedi also reportedly said he is ready to begin dialogue with the militias.
With files from The Associated Press
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...0605/20060605/