Richie's Mk1 Restoration

[George McKenzie]

Old 10131 sure looks good .My 10128 is painted a desert yellow .I'll send you a picture .It had a red under coat paint .My other MK1 is blue and the other one is light OD ,could be faded .I see you have a MK2 speedometer .I need a MK 1 speedometer .I was looking at some sprockets and some have a flange all around and some don't .I think the ones without are replacements .Do you know why the exhaust covers at the back are ,one solid metal and the right one with a screen? they are both solid covers on a MK2. That was good to know about the transmission being the same parts as a WC .My Friend Jim Debock has his track pads all drilled and his pins ready to put back in .If you take the pins out be sure and save the cast washers to use again George

[Jordan Baker]

Hi George

To help answer some of your questions.

#1 The sprockets with the "lip" all around are earlier ones. The later carriers seem to have just been flat plate that the sprocket was cut out of.

#2 On the MK1 Carriers the exhaust cover on the L.S. was solid with asbestos pad due to the tarp resting on it. The R.S. cover only needed a grill as nothing was sitting on it. On a Mk2, I believe the way the tarp is folded around the stowage bin, it would make both ends of the tarp resting on the exhaust covers.

Hope it helps some.

[George McKenzie]

Thanks Jordan There is no end to what you can learn on this stuff. I was at Rick DeBruyns and out of hi five carriers two have the flanges .George

[ajmac]

An excellent thread, looks like it is all coming along well. Did you do the riviting in your garage? Poor neighbours

[RichardT10829]

not that noisy.......when you wear ear defenders........

[RichardT10829]

Originally Posted by George McKenzie

Old 10131 sure looks good .My 10128 is painted a desert yellow .I'll send you a picture .It had a red under coat paint .My other MK1 is blue and the other one is light OD ,could be faded .I see you have a MK2 speedometer .I need a MK 1 speedometer .I was looking at some sprockets and some have a flange all around and some don't .I think the ones without are replacements .Do you know why the exhaust covers at the back are ,one solid metal and the right one with a screen? they are both solid covers on a MK2. That was good to know about the transmission being the same parts as a WC .My Friend Jim Debock has his track pads all drilled and his pins ready to put back in .If you take the pins out be sure and save the cast washers to use again George

George my carrier had area's of red paint too like a dull not quite crimson red... saying that they were very close together on the line (spitting distance) who knows i love the fact you have a carrier with numbers so close to mine

[George McKenzie]

Did you get the brake leaver ? We are starting to cut the armor .I gave side and back plates for Rick DeBruyn to copy and lazer cut. When you get to work on a carrier you soon find lots of differences in them .My MK2 fenders has three holes in the front of them but the MK1 doesen't .If you have a basket case you will have to make alot of things ,which will get costly .The tracks on my parts one are just like new , 165 pads . I tride to cut the rivets with a big hammer drill but no luck I am using a 4" angle grinder with a thin disc,and will use a tortch for the hard to get at ones .It's been a busy summer with car shows and military shows .Too much rain in some places and none in others . Cheers george

[RichardT10829]

George i got the lever buddy, i did send you a long email of gratitude for cutting the rivets I slit the heads off both sides of the rivet with a fine slitting disc, then hammered a wedge between the angle and the armour (being carefull not to bend the angle bar but enough to load up the remains of the rivets) then used a center punch to bang them out... when they let go they dont half make a bang. A hand held air hammer with the spike attachment works good too. I am looking for an accelerator pedal as mine is rusted right through so if anyone has one lying about i would be interested.

George is there much difference between the lever you gave me and the carrier item ? it was a dodge one wasnt it ? i cant recall... it was in mint condition i was expecting a rusty lump

Richie

[RichardT10829]

thought i would post up a few old pics i had nothing major just some shots of the tool plate, rear fenders and sand guards. and some old shots showing how i have patched up the center bulkhead.

progress is slow now that the lead in to xmas is within grasp, i think she will go on hold until the new year.














this was prior to finishing off the surface which has since been done. the welds are all hidden now.


and my sandguards copied from original canadian mk1 issue.....Kevin i still have yours sat here matey !

i can reproduce further for folk if they want £150 a set and will come primered

the rear sandguards can be done £45 for a pair undrilled or primered.

just if anyone else want any, i have had a few requests to do the rear fenders so may as well do them in a batch for folk.

[Jordan Baker]

Your progress looks really good. I remember doing all the same things with my UC.

Couple of things. Your rear fenders on the outside edge should have the folded side cut so that its parallel to the ground. Also the rear step on the left side should have the right side of it a bit longer. This acts as a stoper for the pry bar.

[RichardT10829]

cheers for that buddy, the original fender i copied just had the edge rounded off, i will do some digging and if need be i can take the corner off bud... i didnt make the steps but see how you mean with the extra bit, i can weld a bit on to stop the bar sliding out.

[RichardT10829]

just a bit more progress, rebuilt the gearbox and painted it in the "Grey" colour i want to use for my engine, i know it is not an original colour but i want to paint it that colour anyway.....it can be easily changed if required. I noticed when i got the castwork back from Lincoln that there was a bit broken off in the top, will it cause any problems guys ?












if you look at the inside of the top cover you will see the three sliding rods that go into the casting. where it meets the casting there is like a hole with a bit of cast webbing over this secures the rod in place. one of these is now missing, will it cause any issues ?



Cheers

Richie

[Lynn Eades]

The business end of that hole is the other end. That bit makes no difference.

[RichardT10829]

Excelent, cheers Lynn

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

Blimey! Battleship grey with white knobs. Is this a Royal Navy variant?!?

Just kidding, keep up the good work!

[RichardT10829]

HAHAHAHAAHA yes matey when it comes to engines i am a total tart !

[colin jones]

Nice job rich, hows the rest of your carrier going.
Colin.

[RichardT10829]

Thanks Colin, i am getting there slowly. i have all my wheels re bearing''''d and are ready to go back on....suspension is ok... need to drop my cam plate out and rebuild it and do the linkages... of which i need the cam linkages,footbrake linkages, and park brake bracket.... i have the lever from George.

[Aidan]

How much you want to bet they used that hole(that Broke) to hook up to move that piece around. Aidan

[RichardT10829]

Aidan it is not that heavy matey i can lift it around and i am a weed weighing in at 11.5 stone...... even the main block was not that heavy Martyn and I lifted mine into the trailer which i was shocked at.... the only other thing which i want to do for the box is to put a large magnet onto the sump plug....straight cut gears tend to leave a healthy amount of swarf in the oil.......well that has been my findings on race box's anyhoo.

once i have got the block linebored and the crank done it will be built up again. My holley carb is totally screwed so another will have to be sought out.......unless i go downdraft 45 DCOE with a blower......hmmmm tee hee.

[Aidan]

Richard why not use a Stromberg 97 carb, What is wrong with the Holly ? is it warped. Aidan

By the way you have done a great job with your crash case mate!

[RichardT10829]

Cheers Aidan the carb is one solid peice of rust the casting is chipped around the intake lip.. to be fair it is strippable..... just me being a tart again, i may well rebuild it.

[RichardT10829]

right I have been thinking for a while regarding seized track and I don't like manual labour..ie hard work ! I did some research regarding acid dipping at galvanising plants but the costs were astronomical, i dont think grit blasting was a good idea, and another issue with acid use is through my research unless you are really clued up and know what concentration to use and amount of time required at the flushing stage you could end up making your metal brittle.

so whats left...

HEAT:- no thanks

ELECTROLYSIS:- Hmmm al give it a go.

i set up a test bed last night using two rusty frozen links.

basically for those that dont know electrolysis is a process which involves passing a current through an electrolytic solution. the anode (positive terminal) is attached to some sacraficial steel and placed at one end of the tank. the cathode (negative terminal) is attached to the peice you wish to save / treat and placed at the other end.

the power source comes from a 12v DC car battery charger pushing around 3 amps. (however you can use arc welders etc if you have large bits of steel, and cooling for your electrolyte)

the electrolyte is simply tap water mixed with baking soda or washing soda (arm and hammer is good for those in the USA who can get it) the ratio is one table spoon per gallon of water.


in the simplest of terms the process works by attracting the rust particles from the negative terminal to the positive....(there is a lot more to it but give me a break ) the good thing is it does not remove any good steel, just the iron oxide (rust)

right then i setup a small tank with an old engine timing plate from a 1960's mine (of which i have stacks of) as my positive, i then placed the track section into the tank suspended in line of sight of the positive terminal (important has to be line of sight for best results)

8 hours later i returned and took the track out 30 seconds with a wire brush and dried...and the link was free'd and free of rust granted i had to give it a few light taps with a small hammer....... for best results you should leave the item in the tank for at least 24 hours pending on severity of the rust itself.

here is my results after 8 hours.



first and foremost important bits !!! eye and hand protection the solution is on whole harmless but the soda is an irritant and best be safe than sorry !!!



my first tank is a basic one with one anode however you can have multiple anodes so you can get line of sight to all bits of the track / peice. the tank needs to be non conductive so plastic / glass / wood. the anode and cathode should not get any closer than 7 inches to protect against any arc'ing or shorting out (the former if using a arc welder unit or big power supply)



results after 8 hours ! note the gaps between links you can see they are actually two parts now the after shot is after i had rinsed the black oxide from the metal.



*********NOW A WORD OF WARNING... IF ITS IN RED LET IT BE SAID !*********

SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS YOU MUST KNOW

1) the occasional Dick Head may tell you to use stainless steel as the anode...DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE use stainless or galv'd or any treated steel as your sacraficial anode as it creates toxic gas and the solution will turn into a carsonagenic death soup !

2) do not use aluminium as the anode as it will dissapear before you can sneeze

3) This process creates HYDROGEN GAS as the water breaks down into its constituent parts.... so unless you want to be in peices all over the garage or garden make sure you do this in a well ventilated area away from naked flames and ciggies !

3) only use baking soda or washing soda (the latter must be free of petro chemicals) DO NOT USE SALT !!! or you will create Chlorine gas !

4) Keep the positive and negative at least 7" apart or you risk short circuit, mixed with hydrogen gas = BOOM

5) Keep the positive dog clip from your power supply out of the solution otherwise it will get corroded.

if you follow the safety rules you will have success and wont damage the environment the solution that is left behind in my case is water, some rust, and soap suds.....

i have now setup a plastic bin vat capable of taking the sections of track suspended which i will leave on for a couple of days per set...so we shall see how they come out...my expectations are good. Oh the whole setup cost me 67p for the soda crystals... and remember mild steel for the anode !!!!!! does not have to be clean, just needs to be able to conduct and the bigger the surface area the better.....however Re bar is very popular for this process


have fun guys

[horsa]

Very nice. Its more or less the same process (different chemicals though) for etching brass plates. Was researching it earlier in the week to see if I could fabricate my own data plates for another project.

If you were to soak a much longer track section in a larger vat, would it simply take longer due to the current in a bigger volume of solution, or would you need to increase the electrical charge to maintain the load?

[RichardT10829]

yes and yes. my findings are the larger the item you will require more solution both of which will add resistance to the current.. same with the more powder added the more potent the eletrolyte becomes (but drains more juice in the process). if you keep the same current on bigger items it will still work just a lot slower

so with that in mind for the larger track sections iam going to use my arc welder.

you have to be careful when using big power supplies as you dont want to boil the electrolyte....not really a problem here in the North of england as its so bloody cold ! a chap in Australia used a power supply from a photocopier (24v) and in the summer months had a refrigerator core wrapped around the bucket to keep the solution cool.

thing to look for.....as simple and low tech as it sounds, as long as you have a steady stream of bubbles fizzing from the item your derusting (not violently though more like a glass of soda) then you have enough juice....it may just take longer to get the same results.

one thing i didnt mention was you can keep re using the solution as many times as you like all be it becomes a sludgy mess....its the anodes you will go through

also make sure your positive dog clip does not get submerged otherwise you will find it gets eaten away.....the negative does not matter and that can go right into the solution.

you can put multiple items in as long as they are linked by wire. just make sure you dont short out cathode and anode. you could put copper in and coat the items in copper sulphate so they dont rot......but i have not researched fully yet.

[horsa]

The copper sulfate you mention is what would be used for etching brass as well. Process for data plates is to transfer toner to a piece of brass. You can print the text/logo/art and then use an iron to melt the toner from the paper so it moves to the brass. Then when soaking the brass in the charged solution, everything not protected will slowly get eaten away leaving the toner covered areas raised up. You need to mirror any text before printing since you will be laying it onto the metal backwards so what stays on the metal is then read correctly. And it helps to tape the back of the plate so that side doesn't get eaten away. Neat tricks...

I'll have to try your experiment later in the month on a small section of rusty spare track I have. Guess a battery charger would work equally well for power since I've got one with numerous charge rates which can be dialed in.

Wonder if my 3rd grade daughter could use this for her school required science fair project?

[RichardT10829]

hahahaaha of course ! I am told that if you connect the charger to a car battery then have a set of leads from the battery to the anode / cathode you will get better results from your charger as the battery will act as a rectifier.

[Lynn Eades]

There is a big thread about this stuff on the forum. I cant remember what it is called, but It would be good to have all the info in one place.

[D Ellery]

Not having access to a sand blaster and tired of hanging onto a angle grinder for hours on end I came across this process here on MLU. Awesome process! while you sleep it does away with rust and in the morning you just waterblast the gunk off and your away. I use a plastic water trough (farm type) which holds about 60 ltrs. I've been able to derust my carrier boggie's as a whole unit, boggie wheels, cross shaft and many other large parts. I did try some track sections but found that you have to wire up each individual track link as the contact between the links wasn't that good. Its a great tool and would highly recommend it over other methods. Cheers David.

[George McKenzie]

Originally Posted by D Ellery

Not having access to a sand blaster and tired of hanging onto a angle grinder for hours on end I came across this process here on MLU. Awesome process! while you sleep it does away with rust and in the morning you just waterblast the gunk off and your away. I use a plastic water trough (farm type) which holds about 60 ltrs. I've been able to derust my carrier boggie's as a whole unit, boggie wheels, cross shaft and many other large parts. I did try some track sections but found that you have to wire up each individual track link as the contact between the links wasn't that good. Its a great tool and would highly recommend it over other methods. Cheers David.

I made a sand blaster out of a 32" truck sleeper You can do things up to 6 ft long .right in the shop no dust and you don't lose the sand. I use glass beads in mine .I put it on wheels ,uses 85 lbs of air pressure and could be shared by more than one person Cost me $ 300There is an article about it in ARMY MOTORS 125 the MVPA magazine .