12-Cab C60L & More

[aj.lec]

Thanks Mike
with those sorts of numbers it does seem likely
They must really have been cranking them out by that stage
Would be interesting to see production numbers and models for each production year

Found a couple of interesting blocks bolted in behind the seats of the c8 today
At a guess to hold crank handle and the like
Even more interesting they had traces of green paint on them
Would these be be possibly added in the field

[Mike Kelly]

Andrew

You probably know this already. The cabs featured wooden blocks at floor level, either side of the cab, to take a rifle butt. I have one or two originals around somewhere, slightly broken, but Ok for patterns. The upper metal clip for the rifle, does vary , there are more than one type I believe. Some have a rubber cushion around the clamp ( early type ), and others have a canvas covered clamp ?

Mike

[aj.lec]

looking a little different

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Thanks for the details. This is the up-to-date database that I have. Note the mix of #11 and #12 cabs.

1842007132
8420x2 1842008354 ENGINE # ZR3,692,055 Z 4544183 S.M. 2029# 12 CAB
1842008380
1842008410
1842008485
1842008487
1842008526
1842008570
1842008925
1842012042 Z 4544971 S.M. 2029
1842012305
1842012403
1842012558
1842012657
8442x2 1842013915
184201440x
8420x2 1842014886 ENGINE # ZR3,703,271 S.M. 2029 [IN AUSTRALIA]
1842014915
1842014989
1842014993
1842016278
1842016302
1842016388
1842016401
1842016440
1842017266
1842017323
1842017397
1842017431
1842017463
1842017497
1842018542
8420x2 1842018573 ENGINE # ZR3,715,534 Z 4548484 S.M. 2029
1842018641
1842018649

8420x2 1842020176 ENGINE # ZR3,712,802 S.M. 2029
1842018744

As you know the x2 code indicates assembly in the UK. Probably by LEP in Chiswick, London but possibly elsewhere.

[aj.lec]

supply mech markings under bonnet
supply mech 2029
June 41
Would June be a production month ,supply month or an order month ??

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

It seems to be June then 13?? then 1941. That would be the assembly date and I suggest it was applied in the UK. The order date would I suggest be late 1940. Excellent!

[aj.lec]

Had a bit more of a sand on those spots
Didnt really come up with a better image
it looks to be an 8 rather than a 3
Maybe a c8 reference ???

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

June 8 1941??

[aj.lec]

Nostalga trip for the ford .fire truck duty
even brought the fire crew

[aj.lec]

I get an inkling that the c8 is feeling a bit blue

[aj.lec]

Another one of Bobs works of art
c8 dash ready to go (pity the rest of the truck isnt)
Thanks Bob

[Bob Carriere]

Fantastic job on the restored instrument cluster Bob.....

My question for you Bob....... did they use GMC instrument panels in CMPs..?
They are identical in size but slightly different in the visual layout.....? the cab 13 at the Hamilton airport shows a GMC instrument cluster.....

Question for David........ Knowing that Ontario was a strong supporter of the "Lord's day Act" and that all drinkning establishments, movie houses, etc. were closed on Sundays .... can you tell from the production records whether GM/Ford were actually producing vehicles on Sunday on June 8th 1941........Any idea when GM ramped up production for the war effort..?

Alternatively June 13th was a Friday and June 18th a Wednesday...

When looking at the perpetual calendar for Canada in 1941.... I noticed that June 9th, a monday, was shown as a statuary holiday called the "Sovereign's birthday".......

Just curious

Bob

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I can imagine that they were AC instruments? Made by The McKinnon Industries Ltd in St Catherines?

As to production, I cannot recall any evidence of Sunday working. Up until the end of June 1941 Regina were producing vehicles but then went over to munitions solely. However Windsor Transmission Plant and the Motor Plant in Walker Road, and the Oshawa Plant were producing engines, gearboxes and vehicles. Up until February 1942 Oshawa also assembled civilian vehicles. If there is anything about shifts it might be in the newspaper cuttings from THE REGINA LEADER-POST which is all I have that refers to actual working habits. The local Oshawa paper might have details say of accidents which might indicate working days. I can imagine that Sundays were devoted to care and maintenance.

That all said I have been asked about production ramping up. Years ago I was treated to Xerox copies of info from McKinnons on engine and CKD production. These are a mine of info if you study then analytically. However I just don't have the time right now as I am blasting out articles for the magazine. That is why I thought I would post decent copies online for all those interested to have a look and see for themselves. The Windsor motor production figures would have included engines for civvy vehicles, for Regina and spares of course, and the CKD production included MCPs as well as CMPs. Anyhow, here are two LARGE files and hope that they help.



http://gmhistory.chevytalk.org/ckdproduction.jpg
http://gmhistory.chevytalk.org/motorproduction.jpg

[aj.lec]

Clean up and re organisation at the sanctuary today
plans afoot

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Bob - every Chevrolet panel, a lot of which have come from Chevrolet Blitzs, I have received/restored has been a GMC one. Each one bears the depicted stamp.

Bob

[aj.lec]

Isnt it always the way - You clean up and someone parks a truck there
Not complaining though -If that happens I would clean up more often

Latest member to the sanctuary c60l
Even has a jewel in its crown

[aj.lec]

A question for the experts
does the engine number cr115183 correspond with 1941 and would it be original ?
cr engine number with only 6 digits seems a little odd
bob suggested possibly 235 ?
Also seems to have smaller diameter spark plugs if that means anything
Would anyone have a match with that number for an ARN ?

[Phil Waterman]

Reason I ask about a picture of the engine serial number is that I've encountered two engines without any serial number stamped next to the distributer or the second serial number under the valve train side cover.

I understand that this generally indicates a replacement engine and that the original serial number would then be stamped with an indication of replacement. But in practice the blank engines didn't get stamped at all.

Now as to your numbers I've been back through Peter Ford Infoex and find nothing similar to your number. Peter's note on Engine Serial Number
"216-inch engines:
Two letters designating Productions variations (AR through ZR) followed by seven numbers."

The picture is of my 1941 C60L and shows both number locations

What is the casting number on the block, should be above and behind the starter?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Engine # CR115183 can only be I think a 1946 Canadian right hand drive light commercial unit from a 1/2 ton to 1 ton truck. A 1941 equivalent would be # CR3556863 – CR3761521.

[aj.lec]

Thanks David
seems strange they started with 7 digits and dropped back to 6 later on

Here is a photo Phil couldnt see casting number at the time ,I will look a little later

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Andrew

Your picture shows what I was wondering about the alignment of the numbers which is not as even as have seen on most of the Chevy engines that I have seen, makes me wonder if it was not punched at the factory. It will be interesting when you disassemble the engine to see if the number under the side cover is the same.

Cheers Phil

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Don't get me started on this! It causes my numiscalcula! After 1933 Walkerville Transmssion Plant split engine # allcoations up into batches, as against the US Flint Motor Plant's sequential series. However Flint changed that when the 1937 216 came in, with a new series starting again. Walkerville did likewise, but then moved to a new system in 1946 Model Year after the Auto Workers' Strike was settled. Then you have different series for 235, 224, 248 engines...with different prefixes! I maintain my database which quotes published engine # and serial # data and then on actual vehicles' numbers. It is not perfect and never will be but it enables me to see that there was a lot of changing-around of numbering systems in GM of C!

[aj.lec]

Hello David
I discovered your site today ,very interesting and a great resource .Thanks
I was checking some of the trucks versus numbers and was a little suprised when i discovered one of the motors i have here was only one digit different to one listed .mine being wr3943037 and list being wr3943036 as a c15a july 31 1944 sydney assembled

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

This is quite amazing! If you can imagine, 60 + years later two engines have turned up that were built within a few minutes of each other at Walkerville! However, I seem to recall I have found similar examples before but will check.

A quick study of my database has:


WR3943037
38444S0364 ENGINE WR3943036 ORDER W.O.8 S-M0E52-446 JULY 31 1944 [SYDNEY ASSEMBLED]
3844326725 ENGINE PR3943506 CDLV 1515 NOVERMBER 19 1943
3844326798 ENGINE PR3943551 CDLV 1515 NOVEMBER 22 1943
3844031469 ENGINE WR3947470 C.D.L.V.1798 FEBRUARY 23 1944
3844032286 ENGINE WR3949573 C.D.L.V. 1798 MARCH 8 1944

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

From my notes (excuse caps.)

“R” [CAR] “AR” “CR” “FR” “PR” “SR” “TR” “WR” “ZR” WITH THE “R” FOR R.H.D. MOTORS AND ALSO “TRA” AND “TBA” AND “TBRA” IN 1940 FOR “TRUCK, RIGHT HAND DRIVE, ARMY”; “TRUCK, BUFFALO -ASSEMBLED, ARMY” AND “TRUCK, BUFFALO-ASSEMBLED, ARMY, RIGHT-HAND DRIVE” WHEN “B” FOR “BUFFALO” RERESENTED THE TONAWANDA, NEAR BUFFALO, NEW YORK STATE, ENGINE PLANT. THERE MAY ALSO HAVE BEEN “TR” ON ½ TON GMC TRUCKS,

[aj.lec]

c8 engine before it went to the machinist
One sleeve required -no guesses for which one

[aj.lec]

Been putting this job off
And I now know for good reason
I have never seen bolts stick so hard in to cast
5 Hours yesterday and 1 tonight but finally all holes cleared
first 2 photos as i got it (only with pilot holes i drilled)
last 2 photos as it looks tonight
range of tools ? oxy ,drills ,allen keys ,more oxy ,die grinder ,chisel ,more oxy, punches and taps
p.s. Forgot to mention -monumental amounts of profanity by all involved

[Bob McNeill]

A J are the front casting the same as C15 , check the frames I,ve obtained, think they,r 12,s.

[aj.lec]

went to the family farm yesterday and collected a few odds and ends
A few different ammo cases
What i think may be a jack carrier ??? I have seen them on pictures of Australian carriers on the front right hand guard
Can anyone confirm it's identity ?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Thanks by the way for proving that instrument panels were made by AC Spark Plug, Flint, MI (Division of General Motors Corporation). I would have thought that McKinnon Industries in St Catherines, Ontario (AC licensees) would have done so.