Low-flying Catalina

[Hanno Spoelstra]

It's even flying lower that this one - it's really hugging the ground

Kidding aside, I'm attaching a scan of a newspaper clipping of 28 July 2004 which shows Royal Netherlands Navy Air Service Catalina PBY-5A P-212 on its way to getting a professional paint job at Amsterdam Airport. Read about her history and see more pictures of this move here.
It normally resides at the Military Aviation Museum and I remember seeing it first as a kid when it was still on display at a playground. I was truly amazed by this flying boat and I still am today. Although it is good to see she is being taken care of, with her gutted interior she will never fly again.

Luckily, the Neptune Association is working hard on getting the only other Catalina in the Netherlands airworthy again.

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
It's even flying lower that this one - it's really hugging the ground

But, not as low as the one we had upside down beneath Southampton Water. Thankfully the cause was established and it will save people and PBYs.

R.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by FV623
But, not as low as the one we had upside down beneath Southampton Water. Thankfully the cause was established and it will save people and PBYs.

Ah yes, I remember that it was in the news for quite a long time. Can't recall the outcome of the investigation, though. Since they are still allowed to fly, the cause should not have been too problematic for other Cats to retain their airworthyness certification?

H.

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Ah yes, I remember that it was in the news for quite a long time. Can't recall the outcome of the investigation, though. Since they are still allowed to fly, the cause should not have been too problematic for other Cats to retain their airworthyness certification?

The torque tubes on the nose wheel doors were essentially rusted through and let go on landing when the force of water breached the hull.

See: http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ty_501040.hcsp for the full UK Air Accident Investigation Branch report.

For the aircraft people amongst you the AAIB reports are both fascinating and a lesson in report writing being concise, detailed and unemotive.

All our AAIB reports are public and start at http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ty_508073.hcsp

R.

[John McGillivray]

Hanno,

I came across this photo on the National Archives of Canada web site. PA-110843

“Vickers plant in Montreal, [Que.], where Catalina flying boats were produced during the Second World War.” April 1944

John

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Just looked up a book called "Canada's War in the Air 1943" by Leslie Roberts.Photos captioned.The first amphib Canso built & launched was the "Princess Alice"christened by her,the then wife of Canada's Govenor General.The aircraft serial # is 9806.While working on the pier about 15 yrs ago,the building & launch ramp were still there.Now,only the water ramp remains,as the area is now part of Canada Maritime's container yard.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

My wife's father Fred Northover learned to fly with the Empire scheme in Canada from around 1942. He did multi training on Ansons then was assigned to Coastal Command aircraft. He thus learned on Cansos and then Catalinas in Canada and finally graduated overseas to Sunderlands.

Fred was shocked by the events on Southampton Water. It brought back memories of trying to land on choppy water especially at night.

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Fred was shocked by the events on Southampton Water. It brought back memories of trying to land on choppy water especially at night.

I should imagine that is a real frightener without today's modern instrumentation.

As I recall from the AAIB report mentioned previously the dreadful accident was propagated by the failure of a simple tubular strut in the nose-wheel door allowing the door to open under water pressure as the aircraft touched down, a domino effect then occurred as the inner skin was breached by the water pressure at landing speeds and the hydrodynamic forces also slewed the aircraft. The subject strut is not covered in any inspection routine but will obviously be from now on.

I believe the aircraft is at Lee-on-Solent at HMS Daedalus(according to Dave Ballard), certainly when I recently had to deliver/collect some hired radios there to a helicopter firm and their facility was only a few yards from one complete Catalina and another, wingless, and in a state of stripdown stood a short distance away.

Shoulda taken my camera, although I have a good friend who rents a facility there and being known to the site security I could always blag myself in for some piccies if of interest.

Daedalus is of course non-op as a military base and has most of the larger buildings let out as commercial units with many in operation for private hangarage, the site security is only to keep the rubbernecking public safe and off the operational areas.

R.

[Rod Diery]

Hi Hanno, In the book Catalina, Neptune and Orion in Australian Service by Stewart Wilson it is noted that five or six ex RAAF Catalinas, all model PBY5As, were "Presented to Netherlands Govt 1953, scrapped 1956"

How long did the Netherlands keep Catalinas in service? Were the ex Australian aircraft used for military service, civilian use or just for spare parts?

Cheers
Rod

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rod Diery
How long did the Netherlands keep Catalinas in service? Were the ex Australian aircraft used for military service, civilian use or just for spare parts?

Hi Rod,

Here's a short history on the Catalinas used by the Netherlands Naval Air Service (MLD):

Consolidated PBY Catalina
50 PBY-5/5A ordered from Consolidated 11 October 1940, serialled Y-38 to Y-87.
Y-38 to Y-73 36 aircraft of PBY-5 version delivered 3 September 1941-16 January 1942.
Y-74 to Y-85 12 aircraft PBY-5A amphibian version delivered 2 September 1942-20 November 1942.
Y-86 & Y-87 2 aircraft PBY-5A version delivered 17 May 1943.
Survivors serial prefix changed to P in July 1946, and to 16 in 1947. Last example wfu 14 February 1952. Used by 321 sqn in Ceylon for ASW/maritime patrol/transport.
Y-3 on loan from US Navy, 2 March - 7 March 1942.
Y-88 to Y-93 six aircraft, Boeing (Canada) P2B-1 Catalina IVB from RAF 9 July 1944 - 1 August 1944, returned to RAF 4 February 1945 and replaced by 6 identical models in November 1946, with the same serials. Later reserialled 16-88 to 16-93. Aircraft scuttled 25 July 1950.
16-200 to 16-206 two PBY-5 Catalina I and five Catalina IVA from RCAF 17 September 1946-26 December 46, last withdrawn 14 February 1952. 16-207 to 16-210 four PB2B-2 Catalina VI from RAAF 1947. Last withdrawn 17 October 1949. 16-211 to 16-216 six PBY-5A, from US Navy 9 February 1951 - 25 July 1951. Withdrawn 14 August 1956 - 13 May 1957.
16-217 to 219 renumbering of 3 survivors from original PBY-5A batch April 1953. last withdrawn 12 August 1957.
16-220 to 225 six PBY-5A ex-RAAF, delivered 2 February 1954 - 8 December 1954, wfu & scrapped 12 August 1956 - 1 July 1957.

Source: http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/neth/mld/mldtypes.htm

Just a short answer, have to run now!
H.

[Stellan Bojerud (RIP)]

As a boy I used to take my bike down to Bromma airport (Stockholm) just to watch my favourite aircraft - the Catalina.

I only know they were three PB 4-54. In service 1947-1966 mainly for sea-rescue.

One was shot down by a Soviet MiG-fighter over International water the Baltic 20 nm off Dagö (Estonia) on June 16th 1952.

Here the crew is heading for the German steamer "Münsterland" wich picked them up.

Stellan

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Luckily, the Neptune Association is working hard on getting the only other Catalina in the Netherlands airworthy again.

I'm happy - and proud - to announce the Catalina PBY Association has put back a Catalina in the Dutch skies! It took 4½ years, one million Euro's, and a lot of volunteer effort, but now this ex-Cat Air PBY-5A is flying again under full JAR-certification. No mean feat, as the civial aviation authorities in the Netherlands are not really fond of old aircraft flying around our skies. Consolidated PBY-5A Catalina PH-PBY (c/n 300) was built in 1941 and is the only flying Catalina on the European mainland.

http://www.catalina-pby.nl/photos/wa...ees-Hensen.jpg
Source: http://www.catalina-pby.nl

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Consolidated PBY-5A Catalina PH-PBY (c/n 300) was built in 1941

Some historical background (source):
- BuNo 2459 (c/n 300) credited with sinking of 3 U-boats.
- Sold on civil register in Sept 1946 as NC18446.
- To Canada in 1953 as CF-HHR and later C-FHHR.
- Now flying in Netherlands as PH-PBY. Now painted in Dutch Navy colors with false serial 16-218.

And from http://www.ruudleeuw.com/phpby.htm:

Greetings to my "Old Friend", PBY5A 2459. It is certainly wonderful to see you Airborne once again, and appearing so beautiful and healthy. You probably do not remember me, but I spent over 100 hours in your pilot seat, during your younger days, between 12 January and 8 August 1943 as you carried my crew around the North Atlantic Ocean from Reykjavik. At that time of your life we were either escorting convoys, protecting them from U-Boats, or checking on the Ice Flows as they moved south from the Arctic Ocean into the North Atlantic where they could cause problems in the shipping lanes between New York and Europe during WWII.
It is really a pleasure to see you Flying again.
Cdr. Rodney N. Smith,
U.S. Navy (Retired)

[Keith Webb]

What a great project, and long may she grace your skies.

Here's a shot of our Cat taken in February at Temora.

She represents 10 Squadron "Black Cats"

It's planned to build a new set of side blisters and nose turret.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Keith:

As an aside, did you take that pic of the Cat? If so, what film speed were you using? Considering the almost stop action take on the props, I'm thinking the film must be higher than 800 speed!

[Keith Webb]

Hi Jon

It was shot on a Nikon D70 digital camera, so I can look up the metadata for the shot to find it was shot at 1/1600th at f5.6, on a 300mm lens.

[Crewman]

I like Catalina very much as well, I assembled plastic models of it etc. Look at my favourite Catalina pictorial. All pics taken in 1942.


Library of Congress LC-USW361-85


Library of Congress LC-USW361-50


Library of Congress LC-USW361-57

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Consolidated PBY-5A Catalina PH-PBY (c/n 300) was built in 1941 and is the only flying Catalina on the European mainland.

Last Saturday I visited the last "open day" at Royal Netherlands Naval Air Service Station Valkenburg. I was the last chance to see a good selection of Maritime Patrol aircraft, because the Netherlands have sold their fleet of P-3CII Orions to Germany and Portugal
Apart from Orions, Atlantics and Nimrod there were several historical aircraft, including PBY-5A BuNo 2459. It was the first time I saw it in the metal, sadly not in the air because of strong winds. I learned she is the oldest PBY-5A still flying today, no mean feat for an aircraft seeing extensive war service patrolling and hunting for U-boats (credited with sinking three U-boats and damaging another) off Iceland, and fighting fires after WW2.
Although BuNo 2459 orginally did not serve with the Netherlands Navy, I think the scheme looks good on her and it seems she has found a worthy home in our skies.

H.

(Picture by Erik van Turennout)

[Rod Diery]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
because the Netherlands have sold their fleet of P-3CII Orions to Germany and Portugal

Hi Hanno, As a matter of interest, what has the Netherlands replaced their P3C fleet with?

Rod

PS I have to agree, the Catalina sure looks nice.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rod Diery
Hi Hanno, As a matter of interest, what has the Netherlands replaced their P3C fleet with?

Rod, they replaced them with the Thin Air Mk.I...

I have to agree, the Catalina sure looks nice.

It has undergone extensive restoration to better-than-new condition as the Netherlands Airworthiness Authority is very strict and makes no exceptions for historical aircraft. It is now certified for commercial operation carrying 15 paying passengers (of which I plan to be one some day soon!)

H.


Source: http://www.catalina-pby.nl/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Came across this pic, a sad piece of Catalina hull found along a road somewhere in the US (Ephrata, Wash., actually).

Punched up N2886D in Google, found out it's serial number 64034 and that it was "lost in accident at Northport, WA Jul 29, 1985 due to improper locking of dump doors. 2 killed." Here are a couple of pics taken in it's better days.

If only this was so easy retracing the history of a CMP truck, eh?


Source: http://handcartz.smugmug.com/gallery/169736/3/6374305

[Col Tigwell]

The six PBY5A's given to the Dutch in Indonesia, were to full military specs.

The aircraft completely overhauled by Bristol Aviation at Bankstown, my understanding is they never left Indonesia.

I will see if I can find their fates.

Regards

Col Tigwell

[sapper740]

Originally posted by John McGillivray
“Vickers plant in Montreal, [Que.], where Catalina flying boats were produced during the Second World War.” April 1944

Hard to tell from the pic but if that is a well for the landing gear under the wing then this aircraft should properly be called a Canso, which was by far the more numerous (224 vs 30) in the RCAF than the pure flying boat Catalina.


CHIMO!

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
She represents 10 Squadron "Black Cats"

Here's a Texas-Australia connection for ya: VP-33 was a Catalina squadron briefly based at N.A.S. Corpus Christi before being sent to Perth in Oct. 1943 to join the famous "Black Cats" in Australia.
While we're on the subject of Flying Boats, here's a pic of the last two surviving Martin Mars, Cdn reg. C-FLYK and C-FLYL. Both are based in Port Alberni, B.C. and are used by Flying Tankers Inc. as water bombers to protect B.C.'s vast forests. I have been fortunate to have seen these aircraft flying many times over the years...the sound of four R-3350's pulling a 162,000 lb. aircraft through the sky is not to be missed!

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by sapper740
Hard to tell from the pic but if that is a well for the landing gear under the wing then this aircraft should properly be called a Canso, which was by far the more numerous (224 vs 30) in the RCAF than the pure flying boat Catalina.

Gotta agree with you..The hull is different and the wheel is a dead give away..

http://www.warplane.com/pages/aircraft_canso.html

[Col Tigwell]

As promised here are the details of the six PBY5A'a that went to the Dutch in Indonesa.

RAAF Burea Dutch Serial Fate

A24-98 46534 P244 Scrapped 1957

A24-99 46535 P224 Scrapped 1957

A24-104 46594 P220 Scrapped 1956

A24-110 46619 P221 Scrapped 1956

A24-111 46620 P222 Scrapped 1956

A24-112 46621 P225 Scrapped 1958

Regards

Col Tigwell

[Snowtractor]

Originally posted by Alex Blair
Gotta agree with you..The hull is different and the wheel is a dead give away..
http://www.warplane.com/pages/aircraft_canso.html

Isn't CANSO the designation after the PBY is converted to a water bomber?
Sean

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Isn't CANSO the designation after the PBY is converted to a water bomber?

Hi Sean

The RCAF chose the PBY-5A in 1939 as its replacement for the Supermarine Stranraer. During World War II, Boeing Aircraft of Canada, Canadian Vickers and Canadair Ltd. made almost 800 PBY's in this country. The RCAF called its version the 'Canso A' - A for amphibious.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Isn't CANSO the designation after the PBY is converted to a water bomber?

The RCAF differentiated between the amphibious Canso and the flying boat Catalina by naming them differently. Canada has had a predilection for renaming and/or renumbering some aircraft, whether made in Canada or not, e.g.:

British Blenheim.....Canadian Bolingbroke
American AT-6, Texan, SNJ.....Canadian Harvard
American Beech 18.....Canadian Expeditor (slang-Exploder!)
American Orion......Canadian Aurora
French Air Bus A310....Canadian Polaris
American F 18.....Canadian CF 118

and so on.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by sapper740
whether made in Canada or not

While we're on the subject of aircraft allow me to blow Canada's horn a little to show the extent of the aircraft industry by war's end. Starting in 1936 the aircraft industry in Canada went from building old fashioned wood and fabric bi-planes to modern metal, stressed skin monoplanes. By war's end companies such as Canadian Vickers, Noorduyn, Canadian Car and Foundry, Fairchild, Fleet, Ottawa Car, Boeing, National Steel Car, and Victory Aircraft had built such varied aircraft as (in no particular order) Northrop Delta, Grumman G-23 (Goblin), Gregor FDB-1, Maple Leaf Trainer II, Avro Anson, Bristol Bolingbroke, Noorduyn Norseman, Curtis Helldiver, Hawker Hurricane and Hurricat, Fairey Battle, Supermarine Stranraer, Handley Page Hampden, Consolidated PBY, Westland Lysander, Blackburn Shark, Avro Lancaster Mk X, de Havilland Mosquito, and Avro York.
I know I'm forgetting most of the trainers such as the Finch and the Chipmunk et al. Hope this incomplete list gives all an idea of the extent of the commitment Canada gave to ending WW II. All Canadians should be proud of our efforts!





CHIMO!