CMP hatches: optional / added in service

[david moore]

I recall several threads regarding the presence or lack of roof hatches in CMP's.

After Jason Ginn with the help of Mark Tonner had researched the details of markings I had chosen for my jeep - 62 Light Aid (RCEME) Detachment attached to the 7th Cdn Recce Regt. 3rd Can Inf Div. I found an interesting item in the regimental war diary - thanks again to Mark for giving the reference.

The entry for 12 Jun 1944 while the unit was in Sussex awaiting transport to France reads as follows.....

"Crew commander hatches were cut and installed on all lorries". These "lorries" were presumably C/F60 CMP's? So these guys had the means - and the hatches - available at short notice.

Wonder if they were round or rectangular hatches?!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

David,

A very interesting tidbit. Mike Kelly shared this photo years ago, proving not all cab roofs were fitted with a hatch as standard. Indeed quite a few photos can be found of plain roofs.

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

CAB with hatched roof - optional all models ?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another refererence to roof hatches being added while the trucks were in service was provided by Richard Farrant in Canvas-covered square roof hatch:

No. 4 Base Workshops REME in the Middle East, based around Cairo, produced 38,700 observation hatches for B vehicles in the period between Jan 42 and Aug 44.

Going by the photographic evidence, these were of the canvas variety and added to all sorts of wheeled vehicles, ranging from trucks to staff cars - anything with a roof.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Not all CMPs had hatches added - they were optional after all:

German POWs help unload a jeep from a tank landing craft near Ouistreham, Courseulles, 11 June 1944.
Artist: Parnall, C H (Lt), Royal Navy official photographer
Description: German prisoners of war helping to unload a jeep from LCT 2045 on the beach near Ouistreham, Courseulles.
Date Taken on 11 June 1944
Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205187118

[Bob Carriere]

Probably the squareish type....... as they would have had tons of scrap vehicles to salvage from.....much harder to close the hole....... and beside they may have had a large inventory of NOS hatches for intended for possible repairs........ with a proper stock of salvaged hatches handy two guys could do 4 a day......

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Not all CMPs had hatches added - they were optional after all:

Definitely; You see plenty of C60X's, F30 Ambulances.....maybe because they had less of a combat role......but you also see examples of front-line vehicles like C60L GS trucks without hatches and even LAATs. Maybe not C15A/F15A cab 13's....I don't think I recall seeing those without hatches.

But, is my memory playing tricks on me, or is there a second thread on this subject on MLU?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

Probably the squareish type....... as they would have had tons of scrap vehicles to salvage from.....much harder to close the hole....... and beside they may have had a large inventory of NOS hatches for intended for possible repairs........ with a proper stock of salvaged hatches handy two guys could do 4 a day......

Yes, easy to install. The objective of this thread is to demonstrate that not all CMPs had an observation hatch in the roof as it was an option. Many did, but not all of them had one fitted in the factory or while in service.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Definitely; You see plenty of C60X's, F30 Ambulances.....maybe because they had less of a combat role......but you also see examples of front-line vehicles like C60L GS trucks without hatches and even LAATs. Maybe not C15A/F15A cab 13's....I don't think I recall seeing those without hatches.

But, is my memory playing tricks on me, or is there a second thread on this subject on MLU?

I was looking for that, I also think we had a separate thread. But I could not find it so I posted it here. You and I touched on this subject here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...613#post201613

I wonder if fewer - or even none - hatches were fitted later during the war as the need for an observation hatch diminished when German air power played less and less of a role?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

On the subject of hatchless CMP roofs, once one starts looking for them in the Dutch archives you come across tons of them. These are all ex-Canadian Army, as used NW Europe during WW2:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...617#post296617


https://beeldbank.nimh.nl/foto-s/det...b-1f67d6eae05e

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

You and I touched on this subject here: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...613#post201613

Yes, that's the thread I had in mind!

Attached are two pictures of the Deelen dump. Plenty of 3Ton GS trucks without roof hatches. A lot of them indeed ended up in the Dutch army, but in the pictures they are still in Canadian markings.

Interesting theory Hanno about the late war link....but what about C60L APTs....didn't all of them have round roof hatches fitted? I also spot earlier production C60L's without roof hatches.

[Bob Carriere]

,,,,,, all of them had remained in Canada with no active service ....so they were fresh from the factory...... one could theorized that once air supremacy was attained hatches became a leaky eye sore.....

Bob