27th Canadian Armoured Regiment at Authie and Buron

[m kenny]

All accounts I have read put B Squadron 27th Canadian Armoured Regiment east of Buron and C Squadron west of them. However Wochenschnau 719 June 16 1944

https://youtu.be/1pSew20P2M4?t=5m14s


shows M4s 'Blitz' and 'Chaser' knocked out within yards of each other.

Left 'Blitz', far right 'Chaser' with No. 22 at the rear.




Chaser


Blitz



The third tank is this one numbered '22' and whilst it is not possible to positively make out the name it looks like 'Cherry' T147129






In the same film Abbaye d'Ardenne is visible in the background



Which means the men are somewhere in the lower LH half of this air view.
Abbaye d'Ardenne is top left of centre.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I wouldn't stress about which axis which squadron attempted. The War Diaries in the beginning are well done and very articulate. They got sparser and sparser as the summer and fall progressed. It is entirely possible that tank placements were never fully communicated to HQ, while individual commanders fought their small battles. Some tanks evidently strayed left and right, and jockeyed for position as the fight changed.

But, it is interesting to see how quickly commanders slapped on the spare track or forgot to jettison the wading breathers. One tank looks like its "Quick Fix" applique armour peeled off too.

[Tim Bell]

Nice pics... the 50 cal is listed on the CES for the Sherman VC, but there are few pics (that I have seen) where they are actually mounted.

Cheers

Tim

[Harry Moon]

If anybody ever researched if those prisoners were murdered in the Abbye?

[m kenny]

This is Blitz from the front



and these wrecks are shown in the same newsreel:




These 2 could be the same tank




Bomber

[m kenny]

Map of the battle



and an air view



This is where Chaser and Blitz were knocked out with no. 22 Cherry.



Note the location is Franqueville and reading John Gilbert's 'Bloddy Buron' I see he mentions there was some confusion as to where the engagement took place and he says it was more likely Franqueville than the commonly accepted Authie. He is correct.

Note that the POWs seen in my first post were located somewhere at the centre bottom of the above air view and thus must be survivors from the tanks being taken away.

[John McGillivray]

Originally Posted by m kenny

All accounts I have read put B Squadron 27th Canadian Armoured Regiment east of Buron and C Squadron west of them. However Wochenschnau 719 June 16 1944

https://youtu.be/1pSew20P2M4?t=5m14s

shows M4s 'Blitz' and 'Chaser' knocked out within yards of each other.

Be careful with your interpretation of that film. The Germans edited together film clips from different locations and time periods to make that film. For example neither 12ss nor 21st Panzer used Stug IIIs. The Pz IV 415 is not 12ss. In 12ss the 4th company was a Panther Company and not Pz IVs. The Pz IV Companies were numbered 5 to 9. On some other sites I seen some of the Shermans in the film identified as being British tanks KOed at later dates.

[m kenny]

Originally Posted by John McGillivray

Be careful with your interpretation of that film. The Germans edited together film clips from different locations and time periods to make that film.

Once you have stripped all the Newsreels for Normandy you know this is spades. For instance they use the exact same clip of a KV tank being attacked in no less than 4 different newsreels from 'Normandy'. I am fairly confident the scenes with the German Paras in the hedges were all shot the same day and then used as fillers in at least 6 newsreeels.
I know all the pitfalls. My one golden rule is if it was shown in Newsreel 4 that aired on June 28 then there is no dispute it was filmed before June 28. Thus anything in Newsreel 719 shown on June 16 was shot between June 6-16 in theory but in practical terms June 6-10th.
If a Sherman is shown knocked out in my film then there is no possibility is was knocked out 'at a later date'.

[MicS]

I do believe that this is a Sherbrooke tank, if only because 'B' Sqn in both 1H and FGH were all DD tanks, and if this photo was not shot on 7 June but later and this is a replacement tank, it probably would not have had the Sqn symbol painted on, or at least not in this nice way.

First, a close-up:


Next, two versions of another view of this tank, cropped slightly differently:


The above two photos stiched together:


A comparison with a panorama with CHASER and the two large barns in the background:


Finally, a photo shot from further away, credited to a German tank commander who claimed the kill (W. Kretzschmar in Pz IV No.536):


This of course is to take with much precaution, as are all similar claims, especially by SS men. The date however is perhaps less questionable, and if correct this would mean this is indeed another of the Sherbrooke 'B' Sqn tanks KO'd that day. This would also fit with the series of photos shot by a German KB on that day, showing BLITZ, CHASER etc.

The presence of a concrete pylon should mean that the wreck is either on a road (maybe the track behind the tank) or very close to one, possibly the road between CUSSY and FRANQUEVILLE. If the barn behind is indeed the one just south of AUTHIE, then the tank should be somewhere along the red line, possibly inside the red circle here - or maybe under the "German Gun Position" label?


One thing that bothers me, apart from the lack of a visible wreck inside the circle, is the treeline behind the barn. If we could see some trees on an extension of this aerial view towards the northwest I would be a bit more satisfied with this theory.

Finding out whose tank this is does not look easy, because so many Sherbrooke tanks were lost this day...

Michel

[m kenny]

https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/telecharger?x=-0.437284&y=49.196994&z=16&layer=GEOGRAPHICALGRIDSY STEMS.MAPS.SCAN-EXPRESS.STANDARD&demat=DEMAT.PVA$GEOPORTAILEMAT; PHOTOS&missionId=missions.4154553

[John McGillivray]

Originally Posted by MicS

I do believe that this is a Sherbrooke tank, if only because 'B' Sqn in both 1H and FGH were all DD tanks...

1H and FGH were the assault Regiments which were equipped with DD tanks. SFR was the reserve Regiment whose tanks were fitted for deep wading. SFR did not use DD tanks.

[MicS]

Originally Posted by John McGillivray

1H and FGH were the assault Regiments which were equipped with DD tanks. SFR was the reserve Regiment whose tanks were fitted for deep wading. SFR did not use DD tanks.

'C' Sqn 1H and 'A' Sqn FGH were equipped with wading, not DD, tanks, which means that on 6 or 7 Jun a wading tank showing, for example, a 'C' Sqn symbol, and only that, might belong to either 1H or SFR. Not so with 'B' Sqn, which can only be SFR (not counting the Fireflies used as CB, two each in 1H and FGH, about which it is not clear whether they carried a Sqn symbol).

Michel

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by John McGillivray

1H and FGH were the assault Regiments which were equipped with DD tanks. SFR was the reserve Regiment whose tanks were fitted for deep wading. SFR did not use DD tanks.

The timeline of the battle was land in the afternoon 6 June. Get themselves out of the bridgehead, which was no small feat. Get past any cut-off German defenders. Get their orders. Pick up North Novies and push towards Buron and Authie. Harbour for the night, then continue south. The NNS and SFR are the only two units with the Authie battle honour.

In my estimation, there would not have been much opportunity to lose a Sherman, except through breakdown which would have necessitate a replacement. Was the rest of the regiment's echelon even landed by 7 June?

It is important to remember that even though the SFR lost most of its Fireflies and several 75mm Shermans, the 7 June battle was not the only action in that sector. I don't have my copy of the war diary at hand, but I recall there were several attempts and raids until the German defences were rolled up under sustained pressure 8-9 July. This month of less extensively reported action could be how a replacement tank ended up on the Buron-Authie battlefield.

[Bruce worrall]

image.jpg

I know this is an old thread... Hopefully folks are still monitoring it.
I'm building a diorama of Blitz being inspected by 12SS personnel as depicted in the newsreel, and I'm trying to figure out why the damage to the tanks looks different in two parts of the film.
In the screenshots posted at the beginning of this thread showing Blitz side-on there is no damage to the suspension on the left side of the tank, other than the rubber being burned off of the two rear road wheels.
Later in the video the left front-most suspension assembly is shown completely torn apart, with the second road wheel missing. This is definitely Blitz, as the camera pans up from the damage to show the name on the hull.
Any thoughts on the disparity?

[Jack Geratic]

Hi Bruce, could it be the Germans set off a few more explosives to make it not worthwhile for the Canadians to recover Blitz?

regards,
Jack

[David Herbert]

The damage shown in the photo in post 21 is almost certainly a HE hit on the roadwheel or a demolition charge. The hull side is pushed inwards and the floor is displaced downwards. A mine would have pushed the floor upwards. The bogie wheel has vanished, taking with it the suspension arms, which are very robust. The mangled arms that you see are the spreader bars that pivot on the spring seat that the two volute springs push down onto. If that is the left front bogie the return roller and bracket have also been torn off as they should be attached to the rear of the bogie casting. Also the tank was not moving at the time of the explosion as the track is damaged directly below where the wheel was.

I think that Jack is spot on !

David

[Bruce worrall]

Thanks folks. Sounds plausible that the Germans did this damage to Blitz after it had been knocked out/abandoned. A demolition charge to the front VVSS assembly sounds most plausible, as I would imagine it would take a lot of force to blow the arms apart and remove the road wheel. It also appears that the fire damage to the rear two road wheels may have also been caused by a German attempt to burn the tank, as there is a gerrycan visible on the rear deck immediately above the fire damage... I can't imagine that the crew would have put it there, as the historical accounts above make it sound like they bailed out quickly. The interesting thing is that the German newsreel shows Blitz's suspension intact, and then shows the tank with the damage described, meaning that the film crew was there long enough to film the after-effects of the attempt to render the tank unrecoverable.

[Bruce worrall]

Based on the amazing info in this thread I've tried my hand at converting a Dragon Firefly into Blitz. Hope to add this to a diorama with the Germans in the captured UC per the video. Thanks to all who provided so much detailed info. Haven't built a kit in 30 years +, so it's far from perfect lol.

[Jack Geratic]

Hi Bruce, looks great thus far, and look forward to seeing more.

The census number looks to be in the small side - what height did you use for the numbers? Regulation size would have the height at 3.5 inches, or about 2.54mm in 1/35 scale.

regards,
Jack