#1
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rear seal
Hi Guys. I'm looking for a rear seal for my UC MK1*.Part numberCO1UC105387 0n page 14, drawing number 3 of FUC-03 manual. None of the local shops here can cross reference my old one. THanks for any help.
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#2
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Derrick
Ford number BB-1175-C. Try Macs.
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Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#3
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seal needed update
Hi Lynne, thanks for the reply. seal BB-1175-C is the inner axle seal keeping oil/grease seperate on page 4, illustration no.1, of FUC-o3 manual . I need the pinion seal keeping oil in the rear end, page 14, illustration no.3, they call it the gear box coupling. This is from Fuc-o3 manual for canadian MK1* carriers.Any leads on this one?
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#4
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You will likely have to just find a seal with the proper shaft diameter and have a collar lathed up to accept the seal and fit into the bore. However, it seems to me that seal was omitted in later production, and the oil allowed to pass by. I have also seen the seal omitted in the rear of the transmission case. Perhaps the two were allowed to share the oil and find their own levels. It would make the sealing of the transmission to the pinion more important though. I went with RTV between the flanges rather than the wrap around leather gasket in that location.
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#5
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Derrick
I was only having a guess as I dont have that book.
I think the MkI* never had a seal between the diff adapter and the gearbox, only the leather gaiter on the outside. Dirk L. has shown an adaper housing that was machined to take a seal. I believe it is from a MkII*
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Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#6
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This seal on the pinion coupling is an odd size and I am currently awaiting one being specially made as original. Recently had other seals made for various 70 year old military vehicles, where the sizes were peculiar to that application and no longer available. This is in the UK, I would imagine there are companies in US or Canada doing similar work. Not that expensive either, if I had gone down the road of finding a seal with correct shaft size and machining an adaptor ring, there would not have been much difference.
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Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
#7
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Richard,
Could you post the info. on the seal when you have it home?The dimensions, material etc. Thanks, |
#8
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Will do, Doug.
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Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
#9
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Quote:
I do not have the new seal as yet, but here are the technical details. The British army stock number of the seal was LV6-MT1/PT/475227, this denotes it was a Perfect oil seal, with part # 475227, this is stamped on the old seal ( for confirmation). The Outside diameter is 4.756", Shaft diameter is 2.85" and Width is 5/8". regards, Richard
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Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
#10
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Quote:
Here is two views of the newly made pinion seal ... lip material is nitrile rubber.
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Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
#11
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Richard,
That looks just dandy. Nice work. Doug |
#12
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What did it cost to get the seal made ??
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#13
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Hi Dave,
It would have been equivalent to about 55 Canadian Dollars.
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Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
#14
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Rear oil seal for transmission mainshaft
Could someone please point me in the right direction for a replacement of P/N C01UC 105759, the rear oil seal for the transmission mainshaft? I have looked at a number of Canadian transmissions, about half of them do not have this seal installed. (Similar to the observation mentioned by Rob L. when discussing the pinion seal C01UC 105387 for Derek E.)
I do not see a transmission main shaft rear oil seal in the June, 1944 edition of the British Chilwell parts catalogue. However: the May, 1944 Canadian parts catalogue shows the same seal and part number for each of the three Mk. I* variants, as well as the Mk. II* C31 UC Welsh Stowage. Last edited by Michael R.; 06-01-13 at 22:41. |
#15
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Micheal
Your first picture, shows a different seal, to the last picture.
One holds the oil in the gear box, the other holds the oil in the diff. Neither of these two seals were in the earlier carriers. The big one has a larger than normal I.D to O.D. width. This might be overcome by the manufacture of a "seal carrier" if they proove to be unobtainable.
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Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#16
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Derrick,
You could try Ross Prince, here in Australia. He specialises in WWII vehicle parts. I'm fairly certain I bought these for my CMP rear axle. Dont have his email address with me right now, but can give it to you this evening, if you wish.
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Ford CMP, 115" WB,1942 (Under Restoration...still) Medium sized, half fake, artillery piece project. (The 1/4 Pounder) |
#17
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updates
Still looking for information regarding this seal.
PM's sent to Lynn and Tony. Images and narrative updated. |
#18
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__________________
Hell no! I'm not that old! |
#19
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Update II
PM sent, with thanks.
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#20
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Service Information Bulletin E-2
Vehicles built before Serial #13087 may not have these two seals. Using the dimensions indicated, one could grind and machine as applicable for installation of the oil seal.
Publication date 27-4-43. |
#21
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transmission rear seal C01UC 105759
Has anyone had any success finding a modern replacement for this transmission oil seal.
? Perhaps 440265 ? Last edited by Michael R.; 25-02-16 at 03:23. |
#22
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I just bought one or two for the transmission a few weeks ago.
Looking at my orders, the seal was National 473235 which has a shaft size of 1.687 and fits into a bore of 2.623. If you are using a used gear and it has a groove worn into it, you can sleeve it with a speedi-sleeve pn 99168. I got both sent from Rock auto for $6.49 for the seal and $18.23 for the sleeve. With delivery to Canada it was around $40 Cdn. The sleeve alone costs more than that here, and that is with our government discount. I actually ordered two of the seals because they are thinner, and was going to stack them. In the end I didn't bother since I installed a sealed bearing on both the input and output shafts of the transmission, so there will be minimal oil getting to the seal anyway. For the seal at the diff pinion, I found that the rear wheel seal for a 76 Chev 5/4 ton was pretty close to the right shaft size. I turned down the coupler to the correct size, then sleeved it as well for a good finish. I turned an adapter for the 5/4 seal so it would fit into the differential bore. Took maybe an hour and a half to spin on the lathe, but I did slice my thumb a good one in the process on some of the razor sharp shaving. I have photos at work that I might post tomorrow if anyone wants to see examples. (the seals and retainer....not my thumb). Edited to add: I looked up your number Ross and they have no spring so are just for grease retention up to 2000 RPM. The carrier, with 1:1 ratio on 4th gear, is going to exceed that, not to mention you are retaining oil. The 473235 is rated for 3000 foot per minute. Too late tonight to do the math to convert to RPM but siffice to say it is higher than 2000. You have to put pi (3.1415.....) to work to figure it out. Who said we would never use trig in real life. Last edited by rob love; 25-02-16 at 20:18. |
#23
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Great, thanks Rob.
I understand the design limitations of the 440 style without a garter spring vs the 470 with garter spring. I did not consider it, being drawn towards the greater width at 0.375 on the 440265 vs 0.311 on the 473235. |
#24
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Some photos I had on file.
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#25
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I'd like to know how critical you guys think these seals are?
While remembering the first 13,000 carriers were built without either seal in them, I can see it might be a problem if a carrier were parked on a serious (rediculous) slope (facing up or down) some of the oil might migrate from the diff. to the gear box, (or vicki verco) Other than that, I suspect the oil basically stays in one end or the other. Back in the day, they were never assembled with sealed bearings(as far as I know) However, someone did though, decide seals were needed and modified the housing to suit, so logic dictates that there was a need. Is anyone running a carrier that; A. has no seals in it (ie. un modified) and B., Is having problems with oil transfer? (or other issues, like oil in the speedo cable, etc.) Rob and Michael R, are you guys doing this mod because of problems you have experienced? Or is it because you have later carriers that were made to take seals anyhow?
__________________
Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#26
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I am doing it because I don't like the puddle of oil that ends up in the hull. A clean hull is perfection. A filthy hull is a fire hazard, will collect debris where is is unwelcome (stones, errant nuts, etc can puncture the oil pan) and contributes to the heat in the engine since the sludge will act as an insulator on the bottom of the oil pan.
Mechanically, too much oil in the transmission is going to result in it coming out the input shaft retainer and into the clutch housing, since there is no positive seal in that location. Too much in the axle housing will stress the outer hub seals. Too much in either one can result in foaming which will not cool the gearboxes properly, although really, for the distances and speed I put on foaming may never be an issue. I am not curently running a seal in the differential (although I do have one on my transmission couple with the sealed bearing) of my mk1 carrier at home. It leaks constantly at the coupling. I have to change engines as I am currently runnin gan 8BA and have a coupel of good TL engines waiting their introduction. I cannot count the number of M113 operators we sent into the hull with rags and a putty knife when we would pul the enignes. Same requirements between both hulls. I spent more than a few hours washing out the hulls on the M113s that I was issued over the years. |
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