11 Set stuff

[Bruce MacMillan]

I think you'll find it's a field telephone set D. You can see two wires coming from the screw terminals at the side. They look a lot like a remote A. The caption even says it's a telephone.

The Canadian Army never took any 11 sets to Italy. The primary sets were WS9,18,19 & 22. Looking at the protective grill in front of the wireless operator and the rounded corners on the handles I would say it is a 22 set.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I looked at the picture after posting it and noticed the wireless set and figured something wasn't quite right. That telephone box sure looks like the remote unit A.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

I looked at the picture after posting it and noticed the wireless set and figured something wasn't quite right. That telephone box sure looks like the remote unit A.

There were quite a few units built in that type of case. The Remote Control "A", a similar unit for the New Zealand ZC 1, Telephone set D Mark V, and the telephones/control units for Flash Spotting and Sound Ranging outposts. (The photograph does not show either of the latter, the map board and other instruments rule that out.)

Chris.

[kevin powles]

Chris/Gents, You don't happen to have any spare switch faces/knobs to perhaps help restore this 11 set to its former glory?.


Kevin.

[Euan McDonald]

This turned up from Santa for Christmas. All I need now is the #11 set to complete the carrier.
Why do IPhone turn pics upside down? Must be an Aust thing?

[cletrac (RIP)]

This looks a lot like the tripod in that RCHA picture. Who would have used one like this? The markings on the scope are:
7x50
Gun Sighting Telescope
PATT 6-376
Canada Kodak Limited
Serial No CAN 6002
I Googled it and the serial numbers go up in the 8000 range so they must have been quite common.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

This looks a lot like the tripod in that RCHA picture. Who would have used one like this?

I think that's a standard tripod, as used for some of the survey instruments. Its official name will be "Stand, Instrument, No.(nn)", and it's most likely fitted with a 1/2" Whitworth screw for attaching the instrument (theodolite, level, telescope, map table, etc.). I'm looking for a No.16, which has an approximately 2" thread for attaching the "Instrument, Flash Spotting, Mk.III" - the enormous hole is so that you can drop a plumbline from the axis pin on the instrument in order to place it precisely over your surveyed-in point for the outpost.

The markings on the scope are:
7x50
Gun Sighting Telescope
PATT 6-376
Canada Kodak Limited
Serial No CAN 6002
I Googled it and the serial numbers go up in the 8000 range so they must have been quite common.

That is/was an actual gunsight, though I'm not sure what it's off - possibly anti-aircraft, or might be Naval. Unfortunately it's been subjected to the depredations of the Mad Brass Polisher at some point in its life, then had a pillar & claw mount fitted for tripod use.

Chris

[cletrac (RIP)]

I found a video on the AWM site with these views of an 11 set in an 8 cwt. I'm not sure of the type of 8 cwt though.

[Mrs Vampire]

Originally Posted by Euan McDonald

This turned up from Santa for Christmas. All I need now is the #11 set to complete the carrier.
Why do IPhone turn pics upside down? Must be an Aust thing?

Most likely your phone was made in Northern Hemisphere.

Why No 11 especially Ewan and not #19??

[Euan McDonald]

Gina, have only ever found reference to ws11 installation.
Antenna base in place.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by cletrac

I found a video on the AWM site with these views of an 11 set in an 8 cwt. I'm not sure of the type of 8 cwt though.

David

Can you provide the actual links rather than just pics ?

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Euan McDonald

Gina, have only ever found reference to ws11 installation.
Antenna base in place.

That looks like a standard 19 set base to me Euan . Mike

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's the link

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by cletrac

Here's the link

What an interesting movie

[Euan McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

That looks like a standard 19 set base to me Euan . Mike

Mike, the other one I have looks more like a ground mount.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Euan McDonald

Mike, the other one I have looks more like a ground mount.

Yes I have a couple of those, it is part of the golf bag kit . It is a ground base .

Does anyone actually have a pic of the LP carrier with a antenna base fitted. I have searched everywhere and never seem to find anything . The 11 set is apparently the correct set but what did they use for a base ? I did find this .

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P00399.004/

[Mrs Vampire]

Euan

I would be staggered to learn that No 19s were not fitted. The 11 was a bit of a limited radio and certainly not a standard post 1942
I cant imagine carriers were not fitted with 19s after 1942 say mid to late 1942 .
I know the first batch of Stuarts were around 1941 were fitted 40/60 11s and 19s because of production delays but buy the end of 1942 they were solid 19s .

My impression was the 11s went on to serve as base sets etc and the 19 was the standard.

http://www.qsl.net/ve3bdb/pics8.html

i am not sure when 11 production ceased in australia but I had suposed early on and the 19 was the standard as soon as stocks allowed.

[cletrac (RIP)]

This will be for an 11 set but is it in the right time frame? Here's the video.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

Euan



i am not sure when 11 production ceased in australia but I had suposed early on and the 19 was the standard as soon as stocks allowed.

The AWA production of the 11 ( Aust ) went well into 1942 . We think the production began late 1941 . It took AWA a long time to tool up and get the set into production, a huge effort that was wasted because they did not do any proper testing of the sets in a humid moist environment , how the set stood up to the tropical climates turned out to be less than ideal . Being on the other side of the globe , all kinds of improvisation was put into place , it all took time . Imagine drawing up the blue prints, making the dies, jigs and small gears and making the nuts and tiny screws etc.

It was only by 1944 that the then new PVC coated wiring and other water proofing solutions began to have an effect. The local 22 set ( Aust. ) was an example of this new approach . I have an audio tape of a chap who was in the army radio testing branch. His unit took over an old toy factory in Burwood Melbourne, they ran all kinds of water proofing tests on the 22 set ( Aust.) Even immersing the whole chassis in a water tank and then switching it on .

The little Australian made mk 2 108 infantry sets turned out to be a waste of time, the sets broke down during the Kokoda track campaign . The Mk3 version of 1944 did have the PVC wiring , but too late .

What was the first radio they got rid of onto the surplus market after the war ? The AWA 11 set , most of them probably unused .

Lou Meulstee reckons just under twenty thousand 11 sets were built in the UK. There are less than ten known surviving in the whole world now. What happened to them all ?

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by cletrac

This will be for an 11 set but is it in the right time frame? Here's the video.

That's the British base David with its rubber watershed , different to the LP type .

[Mrs Vampire]

Less than ten in the world Mike??? do you mean Pommy sets or Ozzie sets??

I have seem with my own eyes more than ten Ozzie sets . Last year at Corowa there was someone selling three. He had one on display that went in a second and two more in stock in Melbourne.,

And I have one of my own for the Blitz .

Euan the reason I am wondering about your choice of an 11 is that 19s are far far easier to get ...I even have a few bits I could help you with. But if you are trying for a 1941/42 set up I guess you need an 11.
I am not sure if they used 11s in the carriers during the Buna campaign. The evidence from the wrecks was the Stuarts had 19s .

Mike some of my 19s have PVC wire. I am not sure when AWA adopted it but PVC wire had been around since 1928 or so . I will have a look inside my No 11 and see what it uses.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

Less than ten in the world Mike??? do you mean Pommy sets or Ozzie sets??

I have seem with my own eyes more than ten Ozzie sets . Last year at Corowa there was someone selling three. He had one on display that went in a second and two more in stock in Melbourne.,

And I have one of my own for the Blitz .

Euan the reason I am wondering about your choice of an 11 is that 19s are far far easier to get ...I even have a few bits I could help you with. But if you are trying for a 1941/42 set up I guess you need an 11.
I am not sure if they used 11s in the carriers during the Buna campaign. The evidence from the wrecks was the Stuarts had 19s .

Mike some of my 19s have PVC wire. I am not sure when AWA adopted it but PVC wire had been around since 1928 or so . I will have a look inside my No 11 and see what it uses.

Hi Gina

The UK made 11 sets are super rare . EK Cole made them . The theory is most of them were left behind as the BEF retreated .

re the insulation . Ive never seen PVC insulation on pre war equipment . I know that PVC was invented pre war . The post war rebuilt 19 sets did use PVC wire . As far as I am aware AWA used cotton insulation on everything . Some of the Uk built WW2 sets had a low quality rubber insulation, it falls of the wire leaving the conductor exposed , horrible stuff . The Uk 22 sets had that horrible stuff .

AWA was busily making radios for the RAAF in large numbers. The AT5/AR8 was ubiquitous , the US forces used them too .

The 19 set must have been in short supply here in Aust. because AWA made some in 1943 ( with cotton wiring ) . If overseas procurement was available, then why did AWA make the 19 set ?

BTW the AWA 19 set was a case of improvisation, just about nothing from it will fit a US British Canadian 19 set - even the valves were AWV brand , made here .

The AIF forces overseas did have 19 sets issued early on, late 1941 maybe . The book TANKS in the EAST , a story of the 7th div calvalry regiment, shows a 19 set in use with that unit in Egypt

[Mrs Vampire]

If overseas procurement was available, then why did AWA make the 19 set ?

My understanding is that overseas procurement was not available and that is why AWA made 19s.

My Australian archives search indicates the first batch of Stuart M3 were occasionally fitted with No 11 sets as there were insufficient No 19s available. Though on line histories indicates AWA production starting in Feb 1943 the Archives speak to AWA having trouble getting up sufficient production numbers of No 19 sets in August of 1942 . So far as I am aware all of the Stuarts that went to Buna were fitted with No19 and remnant artifacts support that.

I have Canadian and Australian dials watch holders power supplies etc etc and they all seem to be interchangeable as do the distribution boxes of which I also have a few of both.

So far as the valves are concerned. My Australian manual lists the same valves as those used in the Canadian and US production models .
6K7, 6V6 6D6 6H6 and so on and those are the valves in the spare valve boxes I have .
I don't recall AWA "inventing" different standard vacuum tubes to those that were bog standard in everything from mantle radios early T.Vs to radars and Tank radios . I think the ol 6v6 was in everything that was ever
invented.
Mind you its a few years since I had the 19 out on the bench .

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

If overseas procurement was available, then why did AWA make the 19 set ?

My understanding is that overseas procurement was not available and that is why AWA made 19s.

My Australian archives search indicates the first batch of Stuart M3 were occasionally fitted with No 11 sets as there were insufficient No 19s available. Though on line histories indicates AWA production starting in Feb 1943 the Archives speak to AWA having trouble getting up sufficient production numbers of No 19 sets in August of 1942 . So far as I am aware all of the Stuarts that went to Buna were fitted with No19 and remnant artifacts support that.

I have Canadian and Australian dials watch holders power supplies etc etc and they all seem to be interchangeable as do the distribution boxes of which I also have a few of both.

So far as the valves are concerned. My Australian manual lists the same valves as those used in the Canadian and US production models .
6K7, 6V6 6D6 6H6 and so on and those are the valves in the spare valve boxes I have .
I don't recall AWA "inventing" different standard vacuum tubes to those that were bog standard in everything from mantle radios early T.Vs to radars and Tank radios . I think the ol 6v6 was in everything that was ever
invented.
Mind you its a few years since I had the 19 out on the bench .

Gina I have owned 3 or 4 of the AWA wartime 19 sets . The front end valves are 6U7G's from memory , not 6K7's as in the overseas sets . AWA also did a strange thing, they dropped a IF amplifier stage and added a second audio amp stage . Sounds to me you have never owned one of these sets or seen a manual for one .

The knobs are different , AWA used the 11 set knobs , probably as they already had the dies for these . Yes the headphones and control boxes will interchange with overseas 19 sets , but the heart of the set, the circuit is totally different, believe me

Another thing, the AWA 19 set has a rectangular shaped meter escutcheon , this is unique .

What is the manual you have ?

Don't be confused by the post war 1952 rebuilt sets - these have a Aust. plate on them . The rebuilt sets are actually British sets and were rebuilt here in Aust. 1952 , using PVC wiring , I've also owned a few of these . The front panel is typically a light duck egg blue colour .

The vacuum tube industry here was always trying to keep up with new developments, they had to improvise on a grand scale . For example you will often see 6U7g's in the front end and IF amps of wartime sets made in Aust. Probably as these tubes were easier to manufacture , that's my guess . I've seen them in amenities sets and the Phillips no.4 receiver as well.

BTW the 3 AWA 19 sets I had, are now at the AWM in Canberra, along with my coast watcher sets and lots of my other wartime wireless sets . Mike Cecil came here in the AWM van and took them away !

Found this pic of a AWA 19 set ( note the square meter and the No. 11 set style knobs) , sitting above the AWA built AT5/AR8 set ,primarily a RAAF set but the army also used it and also used a 6U7g in the front end I believe

Radiotron was a AWA brand

[Mrs Vampire]

sorry mike . I don't mean to offend. I have around twenty No 19s and a fair stack of spares. Like I said its a while since I had one on the bench and I am more than happy to doff me lid to your greater experience.
i have run a few and have a few running . I have the Ozstrralian manual and use Ozrstralian valves with an Ozstralian valve set with some hundreds of spares.
My experience of them, as an engineer, is a bit distant but don't recall the differences you refer to and I have not from memory had the problems you are making me aware off .

My 19s look just like those in the Canadian manual and my bits seem to be interchangeable ...

[Mrs Vampire]

Me 19 in me tank.

My main reason for pushing the 19 is that I have more
hope of assisting Ewan with one of them than with a No 11
I have sets with different colored front panels and different shaped meters that seem to cover the whole period . I purchased my sets from the late sixties until the late seventies from all over. I havnt had problems with different arrangements of different valves.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Euan McDonald

Mike, the other one I have looks more like a ground mount.

The one on the vehicle is Aerial Base No.10 Mk.2, which is quite late-on and continues in use until the Larkspur sets and the conversion to VHF.

The ground mount one is Aerial Base No.11, and fits on a metal spike.

The WS19 originally used Aerial Base No.8 for HF and Aerial Base No.9 for VHF.

Base No.8 had a "concave" profile to the ribber insulator and a truly appalling method of retaining the aerial rods: the brass socket was slotted like a collet and had a wire spring wound around it with the ends formed into looks so you could squeeze the loops to release the grip on the aerial rod. It was not a success, as flexing of the spring caused it to break after a while, and you got a _lot_ of flexing on a moving vehicle. It was replaced by Base No.10, though US manufactured sets were still being shipped with the No.8 when WW2 ended.

Base No.9 was for the 'B' set and took Aerial Rod 'G'. It required a dedicated mounting, and there were three basic types of a square base with upright pillar.

Base No9A was the Truck and Ground Station version, fitted to a spring clamp for easy attachment to a wooden post, vehicle hoop, etc.

Base No.9B does not exist - there's a variation of the 'B' set base with a flat bottom, rubber gasket, and clamp ring. This was post-WW2 Pye, used with civilian mobile radio and to use up surplus component stocks.

Base No.10 replaced base No.8 and has a convex rubber insulator and a mechanical clamp with a butterfly nut to securely hold the aerial rod.

Base No.10 Mk.2 was an improved version, the clamp was a single piece rather than two riveted together, and the convex rubber base went concave at the point it was bonded to the metal in order to improve the strength of the bond (The Mk.1 was prone to separate).
In addition, the clamp screw was threaded at both ends to allow an aerial feeder to be attached to the clamp - this allowed the set to be connected to the top of the insulator rather than being fed from underneath.

Base No.11 was the ground mount used with the WS22, R109, WS18 and WS19 in certain setups, etc.

Chris.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's the withdrawal from Greece.
Near the end of the video they're destroying some vehicles. The one guy has what looks something like a piece of radio equipment that he's using for a hammer. Maybe that's what happened to all the 11 sets!!!???
Here's a pic of a control unit A with a 1943 build date on it.

[Mike Kelly]

Originally Posted by Gina Vampire

Me 19 in me tank.

My main reason for pushing the 19 is that I have more
hope of assisting Ewan with one of them than with a No 11
I have sets with different colored front panels and different shaped meters that seem to cover the whole period . I purchased my sets from the late sixties until the late seventies from all over. I havnt had problems with different arrangements of different valves.

That 19 set in your tank appears to have the post war leads fitted .The wartime leads had a heavy braided sleeve .

I believe the 19 set was kept in production after the war . I have unboxed a brand new 19 set , never issued , what is interesting is, the B set was never fitted to this new set . The B set section was just blanked off .

I do have a Royal Armoured Corps manual dated 1963. The 19 set is detailed in the manual along with the C42 set . Mike

[Mrs Vampire]

They are late production leads Mike,

The radio is operational and we used it to communicate inside the tank and to an escort vehicle.
I chose the most reliable components I had after having lots of trouble with connections paper capacitors etc. Pragmatic choices for reliability.

We are heading down the road of modern motorbike helmet intercoms and handhelds. Mobile phones have taken away much of the need to have the 19 operational . Its a fun thing to do but given all of the other chores maintaining the tanks having fully functional original radios is a little way down the list.

replacing the existing set with a radio with a 1943 make date will happen in time .