"1942 Marmon-Herrington ID Plate Chinese Truck" - Chinese, anyone?!?

[hansheesakkers]

Yes documents speak of 234 ordered by Dutch East Indies and 240 by China.
During my research for the Dutch M.H. tanks I stumbled on many difficulties, for example the numbers delivered.
Only thing for sure is that the Dutch West Indies received 39 tanks from the dutch orders. The East Indies, well a source mentiones the delivery of 80 (?). These arrived on the "Straat Soenda" freighter. This ship run aground just before the coast of Java and all tanks were salvaged. Seven were even put in action.
Put the numbers all together the Dutch received 119 tanks. Remaining 115 that were delivered to Australia who received pressumably 149 tanks. If all these figures are right this means that 34 were Chinese (?). To make it even more difficult an ols US marine who served an Iceland told me the had some CTLS 4TA tanks on Iceland (?) and he is sure they were Dutch????
If this is true it means that the Australians received more Chinese tanks then we now!!!
So the glove does NOT fit perfectly yet!!

The hunt goes on.

hans H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by hansheesakkers

Only thing for sure is that the Dutch West Indies received 39 tanks from the dutch orders.

And this is one of them on the island of Curacao in the Dutch West Indies: Light tanks in cactus field near Willemstad.

1d202e83-cfc9-02cc-b2b5-f0686db3c6b6.jpg

Source: http://proxy.handle.net/10648/ad95cf...8-003048976d84

[marco]

Hanno,

Indianapolis was in the Cincinnati Ordnance district and the Ordnance District Chiefs at that time were Mr. E.A.Muller from May 1937 to July 1942 and Col. F.A. McMahon from July 1942 to December 1943.

Marco

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by marco

Indianapolis was in the Cincinnati Ordnance district and the Ordnance District Chiefs at that time were Mr. E.A.Muller from May 1937 to July 1942 and Col. F.A. McMahon from July 1942 to December 1943.

Thanks Marco!

Just for good measure, another picture of a Marmon-Herrington tanks during training at Hato, Curacao, ca. 1943:

NL-HaNA_2.24.01.04_0_935-1399.jpg

Source: http://proxy.handle.net/10648/ad95c7...8-003048976d84

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The data plate came in today, it is indeed off a CTLS-4TAC and lists the following details:

Serial Number ... 3174-27 (last digit is a 1 overstruck by a 7) | Type ... CTLS-4TAC
Motor Number ... 176333 | Date ... 4-6-42
Normal Speed ... 35 | Highest Speed ... 50

The first blank line has what looks like a US Ordnance acceptance stamp? Two crossed gun barrels in an "O" followed by "FAM"

Hans, is the serial number and/or delivery date of any help to you? I'd love to leave no stone unturned to hunt down the whole story behind these tanks.

chinese_ctls-4tac_data-plate.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
No word on China.

But Marmon-Herrington surely did mention the Dutch!

This ad is up for auction at eBay (Item number: 6502152640) - I won't be bidding as a have a copy already.

fsmarmon.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Two more data plates of Dutch Marmon-Herrington tanks have surfaced at the Aberdeen Proving Ground Museum - see
http://com-central.net/index.php?nam...wtopic&p=94647

A very interesting fact is that they are in Dutch!


Marmon-Herrington CTMS-1TB1
FMCV214Marmon-HerringtonCTMS-1TB1.jpg FMCV214-Marmon-HerringtonCTMS-1TB1.jpg


Marmon-Herrington CTMS-1G14
FMCV215Marmon-HerringtonCTMS-1G14.jpg FMCV215-Marmon-HerringtonMTLS-1G14.jpg

[Mike K]

I had a rare radio set for one of the Dutch NE tanks ( made by LINK co. of USA )..it went to the AWM Canberra ... It was a early FM set , it was xtal locked on a single channel . It came with the original whip antenna and headphones .. amazing .. AN OLD ham GAVE IT TO ME. He had bought it just after the war from a surplus store in Melbourne and kept it intact for over 40 years ..THANKS to VK3JO..now silent key .

MIK

[marco]

Hi Hanno,

The text "FAM" is the acceptance mark for the Ordnance district Cincinnati, the district in which the M-H factory was located.
It stands for Col. Fred A. McMahon, the Cincinnati district chief at that time.

Marco

[ron]

Hi Hanno,
You have the I D plate anf I have the complete drive line, all we need now is a bit more scrap metal and we are in business, Regards Ron

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by marco

The text "FAM" is the acceptance mark for the Ordnance district Cincinnati, the district in which the M-H factory was located.
It stands for Col. Fred A. McMahon, the Cincinnati district chief at that time.

Hi Marco,

Thanks for the information!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

I had a rare radio set for one of the Dutch NE tanks ( made by LINK co. of USA )..it went to the AWM Canberra ...

Mike, I recall you did give that radio to the AWM. I could chip in with the data plate and if they buy Ron´s M-H drive train they are halfway a complete tank!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Two more data plates of Dutch Marmon-Herrington tanks have surfaced at the Aberdeen Proving Ground Museum - see
http://com-central.net/index.php?nam...wtopic&p=94647

A very interesting fact is that they are in Dutch!

Saving them here as photobucket is going out of business (due to becoming unworkable):

Source: Aberdeen Proving Grounds Museum, courtesy of Neil Baumgardner

Marmon-Herrington CTMS-1TB1 ADM NR 2751-3007

FMCV214-Marmon-HerringtonCTMS-1TB1.jpg FMCV214Marmon-HerringtonCTMS-1TB1.jpg

Marmon-Herrington MTLS-1G14 ADM NR 3059-4121

FMCV215-Marmon-HerringtonMTLS-1G14.jpg FMCV215Marmon-HerringtonCTMS-1G14.jpg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Interesting picture made ca. 1946 in Bandung, Indonesia. It shows a variety of vehicles being repaired/ overhauled in a Netherlands Army workshop: Universal Carrier, M3 Stuart, Vickers Light Tank, and a Marmon-Herrington Tractor in the foreground.

The vehicles have a variety of backgrounds, including early WW2 Netherlands Army, like the Marmon-Herrington Tractor, early WW2 British Army like the Vickers. These vehicles were first captured by the Japanese Army, then the Indonesian Army, and finally the Netherlands Army. So this was not a case of "one careful owner", and the Netherlands Army had to keep a wildly varying fleet running with limited resources.

35080ed8b43fbf013f150c3767b5991fdfa641e72cc17012d59a1a403bf19bc5.jpg

Source: http://proxy.handle.net/10648/1e999a...4-59a8898de3a6

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Further to the intention to deliver Marmon-Herrington CTLS tanks to China, I found this image from a US publication. Note that the caption included "China":

T16_light_tank.jpg
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:T16_light_tank.jpg


Also:
"More than 600 of the T16 CTMS tanks were supposed to be delivered to China under Lend-Lease after Pearl Harbor, the logistical difficulty and its obsolete design compelled the Chinese to reject the offer"
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_of_China and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deve...7%E2%80%931945)