MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Armour Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 14-02-18, 04:19
maple_leaf_eh maple_leaf_eh is offline
Terry Warner
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Shouting at clouds
Posts: 3,089
Default

Superb effort Hanno!

The number of rounds fired by the surviving gun tanks begs a second question - where did they get it all? The combat load of a single Sherman 75 was not in the thousands! Did the remaining crews salvage all consumables to keep the operating tanks firing? Most likely. How did other supplies get forward? By LSTs or other amphibious craft? What sort of "ADREP" or administration report did the OC and his NCOs make up and send backwards? Interesting questions.
__________________
Terry Warner

- 74-????? M151A2
- 70-08876 M38A1
- 53-71233 M100CDN trailer

Beware! The Green Disease walks among us!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14-02-18, 05:23
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cody, Wyoming, USA
Posts: 2,365
Default Ops Report and Unit War Diaries?

Hanno,

Nice work. Great images. Clearly much work has gone into this research thus far.

Are the Ops Report and Unit War Diaries for the various units involved, resident in the National Archives at Kew? You may find the titles at least on line, even if the contents are not. They may provide some illumination of the decision not to undertake any form of battlefield recovery of the stranded/swamped AFVs, at least, and possibly list losses by Census Number.

Others with more knowledge of the Brit archival system can doubtless inform us foreigners of the likelihood of the above.

Capturing Antwerp was one thing: clearing the Boche from the approaches was much, much more difficult.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14-02-18, 05:28
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 3,405
Default

Hanno.

You mention that several of the various Shermans made it successfully off the beach and/or into town only to be swamped shortly thereafter. Was this an unusual tidal phenomenon or was the area deliberately flooded by the German troops?

David
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 20-02-18, 08:52
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,465
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh View Post
Superb effort Hanno!

The number of rounds fired by the surviving gun tanks begs a second question - where did they get it all? The combat load of a single Sherman 75 was not in the thousands! Did the remaining crews salvage all consumables to keep the operating tanks firing? Most likely. How did other supplies get forward? By LSTs or other amphibious craft? What sort of "ADREP" or administration report did the OC and his NCOs make up and send backwards? Interesting questions.
Thanks Terry! The troops and tanks were resupplied by LVTs doing several resupply runs. The LVTs were indispensable in this operation, the Weasels were not suited for the strong currents and were all lost.
I have not read about the crews salvaging all consumables from the swamped tanks, but that sounds like the thing they would have done.

This is Sherman V, WOLF OF BADENOCH, Turret No. 10, being resupplied by an LVT, most likely at Domburg. WOLF OF BADENOCH was carried ashore by LCT 737, hence the marking "5 BRAMBLE" on the deep wading trunk at the back:
971C8983-2F4D-4A20-B8CF-40754C508DF2.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cecil View Post
Nice work. Great images. Clearly much work has gone into this research thus far.

Are the Ops Report and Unit War Diaries for the various units involved, resident in the National Archives at Kew? You may find the titles at least on line, even if the contents are not. They may provide some illumination of the decision not to undertake any form of battlefield recovery of the stranded/swamped AFVs, at least, and possibly list losses by Census Number.

Others with more knowledge of the Brit archival system can doubtless inform us foreigners of the likelihood of the above.

Capturing Antwerp was one thing: clearing the Boche from the approaches was much, much more difficult.
Thanks Mike! Indeed, and as per Stacey (p. 407) "The costly opposed landing at Westkapelle became the most controversial portion of the whole Scheldt battle." Infatuate II was a true amphibious operation, involving Navy, Air Force and Army to get the job done.

I have not been able to locate the war diary via the National Archives. I hope to read it some day, meanwhile Michel apparently has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Dunlop View Post
You mention that several of the various Shermans made it successfully off the beach and/or into town only to be swamped shortly thereafter. Was this an unusual tidal phenomenon or was the area deliberately flooded by the German troops?
David, the dykes of the island of Walcheren were bombed by Bomber Command. The flooding was to immobilise the German troops, if not to take them out of action. From 17 September through 30 October, Bomber Command had flown 2219 sorties against Walcheren and dropped 10,219 tons of bombs (Stacey, p.411).

One of the largest breaches, the one at Westkapelle, was also used as a landing beach as it provided access to the island without have to scale the huge sea dyke.

The pic below shows how the village of Westkapelle and the area behind it being swamped each time the tide came in.

Hanno

3d79209a2a685d52fbe0d8bb4d9b44d9896b387fd09ceaf969bda67b69c2af56.jpg
(Source)

Last edited by Hanno Spoelstra; 20-02-18 at 21:39. Reason: Added picture of resupply
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted: To trade (N Z only) a pair of LP2 fuel tanks for riveted carrier tanks. Lynn Eades For Sale Or Wanted 3 01-10-16 00:56
A definitive book on sherman Tanks? Gordon Kibble The Armour Forum 6 14-08-16 10:58
Sherman C Tanks - CES Tim Bell The Armour Forum 7 09-08-16 10:12
Westkapelle Museum Opening, Walcheren, 1November2004 Colin Williams Military Shows & Events 0 13-10-04 05:16


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:47.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016