"AFV Profile" Series Pictures

[Lynn Eades]

Rob, Can you post the pictures to go with the designations?

[Rob Beale]

Source: "Making Tracks, British Carrier Story" by Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis Profile Publications 1973

[Nigel Watson]

You'll see this in print shortly but thought you may like to know now!
Bren No.1 Mk1 was made of mild steel throughout with no backrest or rear flap for 3rd crewman.
Bren No.2 Mk1 had its hull made of bullet proof riveted plate with armoured engine covers and rear folding flap for 3rd crewman.
Bren No.2 Mk2 was an improved version of the Mk1 with different hull plates etc.

Nigel

[Rob Beale]

that clarifies the issue of nomenclature for the pre-universal carriers for me.

I now note that the picture above of the Carrier MG No 2, Mk I has the triangular plate for non armoured on its side: perhaps this is the pilot vehicle?

Now any leads on the 65bhp vs 85bhp issue for the universal No1 Mk I?

Rob

[Lynn Eades]

Is the 65 hp motor the basic short stroke motor as fitted in the English Ford Pilot cars?

[Adamicz]

Originally posted by Rich Payne
If the first combat use was in May 1940 then it was probably in Belgium as British Forces advanced to the Dyle line to meet the Germans. Some reconnaisance units went further.

The three mentioned earlier in this thread might have been among the first to come close to action.http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...&threadid=1429

Now I'm confused.. you're talking about Bren Gun Carriers, right? Cause I need to know the UNIVERSAL carrier first use in combat. Were they used in Europe before evacuation of Dunkerque? If not, where they were first used? In Africa? I can't find that information anywhere.

[Rob Beale]

I don't have hard evidence, but the first contracts for "Universal carriers" were dated 1 April 1939 according to David Fletcher in "Universal Carrier 1936-48"

The often quoted recommendations of the committee reviewing the performance of carriers in France in 1940 seem to have been pre-empted by the above contracts.

Probably only photographic evidence will determine if universals were with the BEF.

David Hayward may know more about delivery dates for the above contracts: presumably it took time to set up tooling and source materials and components from suppliers, but would it take a year???

Rob

[Adamicz]

Maybe due to the impasse in Europe they've decided to not deploy new universals.

[Rich Payne]

Following on a thread on WW2talk where Richard Harrison pointed out that there were Universals in use with the 2nd BEF at least (52nd Infantry Division at Cherbourg in June)

http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/1940/85...arkings-4.html

I remembered this thread and an image that I saved recently from the history site of the town of Poperinge. It shows T8134 which Nigel Watson lists as a Nuffield UC Mk1. The image is dated 27th May 1940.



Sorry for the clumsy screen save.

According to the War Diaries of HQ GS for 2nd Div, most of their transport was abandoned at Poperinge but in view of the confusion, this one could have been used by other units.

[Rich Payne]

Here is Sentinel Wagons Universal MkI on the beach at Malo-Les-Bains after the evacuation, The second carrier seems to be wearing the 4th Infantry Division formation sign and shares a '4' AoS sign suggesting 30th Field regt. R.A.

It would seem that there was a reasonable number of Universals with the BEF.

[RichardT10829]

excelent photo's Rich on the last pic for some reason they have removed an engine cover which can be seen lying against the track.... i had made a minor error in my decription on the ww2 forum, but none the less the vehicles were as stated.

[Lynn Eades]

Are you talking about WW2 Talk? If your a regular there then maybe you could try to undo the b.s. thats printed there, that is put across as fact.
eg.AOP's were only for transporting the crew to a site from where the "observing was carried out, ex the carrier.If that was the case, why were they fitted out, to enable the job to be carried out, in the carrier?
It also reads that the Scout was a derivative of the Universal,and does not differentiate between a Bren, and a Universal. If the writer is an authority, then he needs to get a little closer to the facts. Unfortunately I cannot believe any of the other screeds of stuff he has written about, that which I do not know, because he has blown his credability, around that which I know a little bit about.

[RichardT10829]

Lynn i have not seen the thread you refer to, i will try and dig it out, but as i am myself a mere student when it comes to carriers i dont know if i am the right person to make the corrections......... those lads helped me a great deal with my research for grandad, and there are a few actual ww2 veterans there. granted there are often errors on vehicles etc. but for example Rich here is a major enthusiast on ww2 motorcycles and knows a great deal, there are other AFV owners on the forums too.

even our very own Nigel has had inputs on threads for vehicles.

it was my understanding that the whole point of the AOP was a protected Armoured Observation Post... the idea being the boys could rig up an op quickly from the vehicle, run lines out for comms and if they were "bumped" as it were, they could make a sharp exit whilst protecting the crew. without looking is that not what AOP stands for ?

as for scouts. i think (and that is all its a guess)

in order of appearence.

proto type VA D50

scout carrier and bren

Universal carrier mk1 (and variants)

Universal Carrier Mk2 (and variants)

Univesal Carrier Mk3 (and variants)

T16

obviously there are Loyds and Windsors etc to fit in the chain but loosly translated without grabbing nigels books this is what i understood the progression to be. And as i say i myself am a student.


Didnt realise you held such hatred for that forum buddy