C8 progress in Texas

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

I would like to restore the C8, but will need some help.
Regards, David

Dave, it would be my pleasure to assist you in any way and I would love to pop over and see your C8. PM me and we'll swap contact info...I'd like to include you in our reenactor forum with an eye to getting you out to some of our events. Derek.

[alleramilitaria]

hey dave good vehicle
that makes 3 funny looking trucks in texas now. i am in the works to get a 15CWT as soon as i have someplace to put it. derec is a great guy and has done a good job bringing his truck up to speed.
dave d. south of waco.

[David DeWeese]

Thank you Derek for the offer! Have sent you my contact information.
Thanks, Dave for the reply! Thanks also for the support of our funny-looking trucks!
Went to the local wrecking yard today and bought a pair of six lug hubs and brake drums for the front axle that is presently under the C8. Now, at least, it can roll on a matching set of "16 civilian wheels.
Have a good lead on another pair of rear adapters, but won't jinx the transaction by talking about it too much. I found my rear adapters fit nicely on the new, six lug fronts I just installed, although may be a bit wider than originally equipped.
Hope Wallace Wade makes some tires for it soon!
Regards, David

[David DeWeese]

Hello all,
Had the time today to tear into the C8 and make it closer to being ready for the sandblaster late next week. Have found absolutely no rust-through anywhere, and things came apart without too much problem.
I will say, however, that the engineer who decided on using all of the flat head screws on the floor and interior panels should have been beaten severely!
The boss on the right side of the engine behind the distributor, where the number I think should normally be, is blank. On CMP engines, are they located somewhere else or is this more likely a replacement?
Thanks, David

[Mike Kelly]

Hi David

I think maybe you have a replacement engine. On the early C8's, the engine doesn't have a crankcase fume re-cirulating system. Instead, it has the tube that sits in the airstream , it suck out the fumes.

Yes, those flat head screws are a pain, I had to drill them out .

Mike

[Jim Price]

David:
My F8 also had all those flathead screws in the floor. We used a manual impact screw driver to get most of them out. When all was done I think we were able to save only about a half dozen!

Regards,
Jim

[David DeWeese]

Thanks Mike and Jim for the replies!
Mike, turns out the engine is stuck anyway. Have a good running 216 and 235 hydraulic lifter engine here, so have options.
Got every one of the screws out but one using the old "heat and quench" method. Heat to just a glow then soak with water. Does something to the rust. Could almost screw them off by hand after. Nasty work, though.
Had a torch in one hand and a garden hose sprayer in the other for most of the afternoon.
Thanks, David

[Phil Waterman]

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Hello all,
Had the time today to tear into the C8 and make it closer to being ready for the sandblaster late next week. Have found absolutely no rust-through anywhere, and things came apart without too much problem.
I will say, however, that the engineer who decided on using all of the flat head screws on the floor and interior panels should have been beaten severely!
The boss on the right side of the engine behind the distributor, where the number I think should normally be, is blank. On CMP engines, are they located somewhere else or is this more likely a replacement?
Thanks, David

Hi David

Under the side valve cover just infront to the distributor you may find and engine number this is the second location for stamping the block.

Take a look at this thread for a picture http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...=number&page=8

Cheers Phil

[David DeWeese]

Thank You Phil for the information!
Scraped the block in the second location and came up with nothing, so I guess it is a replacement. Just as well since I would like to stay away from the cast iron pistons and babbitted rods on the 216.
Have a 235 full pressure engine with hydraulic lifter from a '57 car that seems a good candidate for the truck. Runs great, but will do a quick rebuild on it before installation. Want to do it right the first time, as it looks like a beast to change out the motor.
Any pitfalls with using the 235?
Thanks, David

[Richard Coutts-Smith]

David,
I have just put in a 235 in my C60s. Went in quite easily, spent a bit of time making a new hand throttle bracket to mount around the waterpump as the original does not fit, and a lot more time getting the original bellhousing to line up properly on the block. I have heard of problems with the length oh the shaft on the waterpump (too long) but mine was fine.
My only problem was not knowing about "plastigauges" when doing the big ends. After my first test drive I could here a knock under load, turns out I have 4thou clearance on one bigend. Talk about learning the hard way...
Sure if you do a search for 235's in this forum you will find a few comments about them.
Goodluck
Rich

[David DeWeese]

Got the C8 back from the sandblaster last week, and luckily had only a few minor spots of rust-through show up in the sheetmetal. I did try for a few hours to retrieve any original markings through the many coats of paint before it went, but the thick brush-applied top coats of red made it virtually impossible. Did notice today a steel manufacturers mark on the rear cab section after it returned blasted.
Have major issues now in the drivetrain, though, as the transmission case is busted. About 1/2 of the casting that constitutes the ball fitting for the torque tube on the transmission is also missing.
Thought the rear end looked odd in that the rear wheels had a lot of negative camber. Turns out that the rear axle housing is bent beyond reasonable repair. Plus the U bolts on the aftermarket overload springs that were installed wore completely through the axle housing! Someone beat this truck like a mule.
Having found all of this, I will not be discouraged, but my wallet is thin! Did a lot of soul-searching on this, but here's what worked out for me:
PURISTS MAY WANT TO COVER THEIR EYES NOW!
Engine was going to be replaced with a 235 anyway. Have a nice four-speed top-loader from a '41 1.5 ton Chev G506 here for a while from a previous conversion project. Have a rear axle assembly here from a six lug '90 model Chev Blazer 4x4 that will fit perfectly according to measurements.
This will give me a good engine and transmission, open driveshaft, and a rear end with decent gears that will still accept the C8 wheel adapters and wheels.
I am now ready to accept my punishment!
Thanks, David

[Jim Price]

David:
Be of strong heart! If your wallet is thin now, you ain't seen nuthin' yet! Just remember that the best rationale for what you spend if that you're saving a piece of history, something few people are in a position to do.

Regards,
Jim

[aj.lec]

camber for high speed cornering (very low speed cornering more like)
someone must have tried to use it as a 30cwt instead of 8cwt to bend diff housing
With the intended combo it should pick your top speed well past the usual 40mph mark

[sapper740]

Before you proceed any further Dave, a MLUer from Manitoba, Bill MacKenzie had the complete frame and running gear, sans body for a C15A for sale. If you're interested, I can dig up my emails to him and see if he still has it. Derek.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Derek, the C15A and C8 frames are quite different. The 4x4s have a wider frame at the rear and the rear ends are different too.

[David DeWeese]

Hi all,
Does anyone have a photo of what the parking brake linkage is supposed to look like on a Cab 11 C8 from the cables to the lever? Here's what I have now.
Thanks, David

[aj.lec]

sorry about poor quality couldnt get a decent shot from floor level
first = where linkages attach
second = linkage between actuator and cable ends
third = front linkage between hand brake lever and actuator

[David DeWeese]

Hello,
Slow progress being made on the chassis of my C8 as I can find time, but any progress is better than none.
Front springs got sorted out, as they were cobbled together with no two leaves matching on either side except for the primaries. A set of partial rear spring packs from a 1/2 ton Dodge Weapon Carrier fit wonderfully.
Front knee action shocks were frozen solid! An hour or so with some fresh shock oil, and some not-too-gentle persuasion and they were good as new.
A pair of suitabe front axle stops were made from crusty 3/4 ton Dodge WC units with a little work on the bench grinder. The 65 year old rubber was like new just under the surface.
Had a question about the original arrangement of the rear axle stops: Was browsing photos of other C8's and noticed the one in the photo had cast or stamped brackets outboard of the frame for the rear axle stops,(circled in red). These align with the cast pieces on top of the rear springs that look like they should have the rubber stops installed on them also.
My C8 has brackets rivetted under the frame with the rubber stops, but also has holes in the frame for outboard brackets. My existing ones look useless, as the rear suspension would never be able to compress far enough for them to contact the rear axle.
So, my long-winded question is which type of arrangement would be correct for a C8?
Many Thanks, David

[aj.lec]

David
The correct bump stops at the rear are the ones bolted directly under the chassis as you have shown in the fourth photo
The correct ones for the front ones are as you have shown
The additional bracket on the rear of chassis in the 3rd photo is a ring-in and is only bolted on ( I know this because that c8 is the c8 i bought first and is sitting in my shed)

[David DeWeese]

Thanks a lot Andrew for the information! Looked today at a '41 civilian 1.5 ton Chev I have for parts, and it has the same bump stops mounted under the frame. Still an odd place to position them as the springs would have to almost bend backward for the rear axle housing to contact them.
Didn't realise that was your C8 in the photo I used. How's the restoration coming along?
Thanks again! David

[aj.lec]

No worries
Restoration hasn't begun on that one -That one is a major restoration project reserved for when i get a lot braver
A lot of rust and mis-matched components

It would be a massive bump required to hit those stops

[David DeWeese]

MISMATCHED COMPONENTS! Why, I've never heard of such a concept!
I can safely say at this point that all the quality parts I have used in the careful restoration of my C8 so far have all come from.....uhh......well....erm, well, they all came from trucks!
Thanks, David

[David DeWeese]

Started sorting out my non-existant brake system today. My original master cylinder was cracked,(no good even for a core), and all the metal brake lines needed replacing.
Because of this and as a concession to safety, I installed a dual reservoir master cylinder on the C8 today.
A trip to the scrapyard yielded a good choice as it had the brake line outlets exiting the right hand side and a very low filler cap profile. Came from a 1970 Jeep Commando. Very cheap for new ones at the local auto parts store.
Made up a heavy bracket and bolted it up. Re-installed the old 216 motor, installed floor plate and wood strip to check clearances. Not much room to spare, but it fits, it's safer and it's cheap!
Thanks, David

[sth65pac]

Great work David,

I am a firm believer that a dual circuit system is a safer bet. Jeeps of that era are not common here in Australia, but I am of the same mindset: Two circuits are better than one.

You are going to have to look at a servo to assist the braking as I do not think that the jeep system uses the large bore diameter like the C8 originally had.....SO (I think) your pedal pressure will be too high and you will need a right foot on steroids to push the pedal hard enough to work the brakes effectively. [One has a sneaking suspicion this thread will end up immortalized in Google] Perhaps you have re-bored the master cylinder to the larger diameter (I don't know) if so, the problem above vanishes...

Let us know how you go... we're happy to learn from your mistakes .

You can hide a servo easily enough.

I have actually rebuilt my original master cylinder, but it will be to get me mobile. I want to convert to two circuits.

Ian

[David DeWeese]

Thanks Ian for the reply! Any and all input is gratefully appreciated as I am flying blind on this modification.
The only thing working for me is that the donor Jeep had non-power assisted brakes and 11" drum brakes all around. Didn't check wheel cylinder diameter though.
Add to the mix that the C8 has a late model rear end installed that had power-assisted 11" rear drum brakes, and the front brakes are from a much earlier General Motors product, (that way when I received the truck), I have a real brake salad going!
Thanks, David

Note;
It also has occurred to me that some people may be put off by taking these great liberties in modifying such a rare truck. My decisions are based on time, money and the mechanical condition of the truck when I received it. If I am offending anyone, please let me know.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by David DeWeese

Thanks Ian for the reply! Any and all input is gratefully appreciated as I am flying blind on this modification.
The only thing working for me is that the donor Jeep had non-power assisted brakes and 11" drum brakes all around. Didn't check wheel cylinder diameter though.
Add to the mix that the C8 has a late model rear end installed that had power-assisted 11" rear drum brakes, and the front brakes are from a much earlier General Motors product, (that way when I received the truck), I have a real brake salad going!
Thanks, David

Note;
It also has occurred to me that some people may be put off by taking these great liberties in modifying such a rare truck. My decisions are based on time, money and the mechanical condition of the truck when I received it. If I am offending anyone, please let me know.

David ..
It is your truck and as such you are really going to enjoy driving it..
You do what you must for safety and ease of driving..
I fully believe that to save it ,modified or not from original is a blessing..
I would only get upset if some one ,knowingly, would try to pass it off as original..then the sparks would fly..other than that ..you have my blessings..the hell with the rest of them..Enjoy..

[David DeWeese]

Hi,
Finally had a weekend to devote to the C8. Put the time to good use by test-fitting my 235 and a transmission to make sure everything was OK before painting the frame.
Both my donor 4-speed crash boxes turned out to be worn completely out, so resorted to Plan B:
Installed a six cylinder bellhousing from a '60 through '62 Chev truck which has the clutch fork exiting the right-hand side. Now I can use my stock C8 clutch linkage with a bellhousing that accepts the later model GM manual transmissions. Made up a couple of adapters to mount it so not to modify the original C8 crossmember.
Was then able to install a General Motors SM 420 4-speed transmission. First is the ultra-low "granny" gear that I will probably never use, but it now gives me three synchronized foreward gears to work with.
Next weekend I will tear it all back apart to prepare the frame for paint!
Regards, David

[Bob Carriere]

HI David

Do you happen to have the part number for that particular 1960 / 62 bell housing.....

I had considered the same arrangement with a C15A....but.... the modern 4 speed tranny and bellhousing left too little room between the transfer case and the tranny to properly connect with a short driveshaft. Moving the T case bad was not an option I wanted to exercise.

Fortunately for you the C8 lends itself to the conversion you did.

Bob C.

[David DeWeese]

Hi Bob,
The bellhousing is a used one I pulled out of a 1960 Chev 1/2 ton. It had a hydraulic slave cylinder mounted to the right hand side. Had one of the 3-speed column shift transmissions behind it. Uses a longer clutch fork also.
A friend has a factory parts manual for this model, so I'll try to get parts numbers for you.
Thanks, David