Cab 11 C15 and 2A1 body

[Mike K]

The wheel wells don't have angle iron , they used wooden supports inside the corners , its all held together with wood screws .

I did take some pics of the wells on a original GS body > but I cannot find the disc ....

This may help , but I cannot say if this is 100% correct .

[Mike K]

brian Cook's drawing

I think its approx. correct .

Mike

[Mike K]

the British version has a little trap door , for access to the diff ... kinda cute
body-6.jpg


brians truck
cook-2.jpg



door could be handy for disposing of unwanted rubbish !
body-9.jpg


floor details
body-8.jpg

[cletrac (RIP)]

I just got a copy of Alex Blair's manual #2 Body Parts List. It just has two drawings of the 2A1 body.

[cletrac (RIP)]

The manual was issued October 1941 but revised January 1942. If you compare these drawings with the previous factory photos you can see by the mirrors and wheel bolts etc that they traced the drawings off those photos.

[cletrac (RIP)]

This is the list of models using the 2A1
They all use three of the division board assemblies that are pictured between the wheel wells on the rear view.
All but the GS version use three hoopstick assemblies (top bows) for the top canvas. The GS uses a different canvas so that'll be the one shown on the 2B1 body earlier in this thread,
The GS and the van don't use any seat assemblies in the box. The cable layer and anti aircraft use four seats and the personnel carrier uses two.The personnel carrier also has four bench seats along the sides that none of the others use.
The anti aircraft also has two ammo case carrier assemblies and two rifle clip rack assemblies plus a spare wheel carrier assembly.

It wasn't the anti aircraft but the anti tank tractor that had these extras.

Now for a few questions.
What kinds of guns did the anti aircraft and anti tank version use? I assume it'd be one or two bren guns on some kind of mount and one or two Boyes seeing as we're talking 1940.
What kind of gun did the anti-tank tractor pull? Here I'd assume a 2 pounder. With the truck being a 4x2 you wouldn't want to have anything much bigger.
Are there any pix available showing any of these variants?

[cletrac (RIP)]

I answered my own question about the anti tank tractor. This pic of a 15 cwt pulling a 6 pounder is off Colin Stevens website. I can't tell if it's a 2A1 or 2B1 body but it's one or the other. I wonder if they used a winch on this tractor version. A higher resolution copy of this pic would be nice! The two soldiers near the front must be standing on the tool box.
Now I just have to come up with a pic of the AAAT1 with an anti-aircraft setup in the back.
All of these body variants were used with the 2B1 bodies on the cab 12s too. In the body parts list manual it says to use the 2B1 if replacing the whole 2A1 body as it's a direct replacement.
According to the manual, the 2A1 and the 2B1 both use two long and two short U-bolts to hold the body to the frame.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by cletrac (RIP)

I answered my own question about the anti tank tractor. This pic of a 15 cwt pulling a 6 pounder is off Colin Stevens website. I can't tell if it's a 2A1 or 2B1 body but it's one or the other. I wonder if they used a winch on this tractor version. A higher resolution copy of this pic would be nice! The two soldiers near the front must be standing on the tool box.

B15CD130-8844-471A-94F1-7EEB4D45CA17.jpeg

Here’s a the pic which is similar to the one that David posted. It looks like it was made on the same day and location. Sad to say he is no longer around to enjoy it.

Canadian gunners with their 6-pounder anti-tank gun in the ruins of a town in Italy, c1944. (Library and Archives Canada Photo, MIKAN No. 3607615)
49CA48A7-AF1C-468B-8982-8CE03E21603E.jpg

[Bob Carriere]

....it's a 2C1 type.......!!!! on a cab 13.....

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

....it's a 2C1 type.......!!!! on a cab 13.....

Also interesting to see the wooden (?) extension on the top edge of the body.

[Grant Bowker]

I think we have discussed these wooden extensions or seatbacks separately, can someone add a link to tha thread?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by cletrac (RIP)

I answered my own question about the anti tank tractor. This pic of a 15 cwt pulling a 6 pounder is off Colin Stevens website. I can't tell if it's a 2A1 or 2B1 body but it's one or the other. I wonder if they used a winch on this tractor version. A higher resolution copy of this pic would be nice! The two soldiers near the front must be standing on the tool box.
Now I just have to come up with a pic of the AAAT1 with an anti-aircraft setup in the back.
All of these body variants were used with the 2B1 bodies on the cab 12s too. In the body parts list manual it says to use the 2B1 if replacing the whole 2A1 body as it's a direct replacement.
According to the manual, the 2A1 and the 2B1 both use two long and two short U-bolts to hold the body to the frame.
cmp_15_cwt_towing_6_pr_a-tk_gun_dnd_photo_34655_at_pac.jpg

Here's a photo which could well have the previous or next frame in the film:

Canadian gunners with their 6-pounder anti-tank gun in the ruins of a town in Italy, c1944. (Library and Archives Canada Photo, MIKAN No. 3607615)
273478572_10160089430579658_2970599578569101447_n.jpg

[cletrac (RIP)]

The AAAT must have used a system like one of these as far as I can figure. That MG mount in the 8 cwt is probably out of place, though. I suppose you could have ended up with one as a field mod.

[Grant Bowker]

All CMP winches I'm aware of were driven from the transfer case. C15, as 4x2 had no transfer case, so it would have had to drive from the PTO opening in the transmission, which I don't recall having seen.
Also in the photo above, I wonder whether the tow vehicle is actually 4x2, the relation between the tire, bumper and fender looks more like 4x4 to me.

[cletrac (RIP)]

You're likely right about the winch. According to that manual the anti-tank tractor came in both 4x2 and 4x4 versions. I thought the pic was of a 4x4 too.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I went for a tour today and checked out some CMPs. I found some 2A1 parts and took pix and measurements. Here's an original top bow. The background scenery is fairly interesting too. When I make some drawings I'll post them with the measurements.

[cletrac (RIP)]

These were the only small parts that were there. That one piece of side board is over 6" wide so the Canadian bodies didn't use all 3 1/2" boards like the Brits used.

[cletrac (RIP)]

This tool box has been shortened on one end but I got all the measurements. It never had a spare tire mount on it.

[cletrac (RIP)]

This is the data plate on the C15 (no vents). I've posted the serial number before but no pic.
There's also a 2B1 box that I'm going to get but I'll post pix on the latest acquisition thread.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

David, great thread you've got going here.

Originally posted by cletrac
I wonder if they used a winch on this tractor version.

The 15-cwt anti-tank gun tractor did not have a winch.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by cletrac
The personnel carrier also has four bench seats along the sides that none of the others use.

David,

Do you have more detials about those bench seats fitted to the personnel carrier. My F15A is a PERS-3 and I'd like to fit the proper seats to the rear bed.

Thanks,
Hanno

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by cletrac
I answered my own question about the anti tank tractor. This pic of a 15 cwt pulling a 6 pounder is off Colin Stevens website. I can't tell if it's a 2A1 or 2B1 body but it's one or the other. I wonder if they used a winch on this tractor version. A higher resolution copy of this pic would be nice! The two soldiers near the front must be standing on the tool box.
Now I just have to come up with a pic of the AAAT1 with an anti-aircraft setup in the back.
All of these body variants were used with the 2B1 bodies on the cab 12s too. In the body parts list manual it says to use the 2B1 if replacing the whole 2A1 body as it's a direct replacement.
According to the manual, the 2A1 and the 2B1 both use two long and two short U-bolts to hold the body to the frame.

Here's another pic of a 15cwt pulling a 6 pdr in Italy. I know for a fact the 48th Highlanders used them even into Holland, where they received ONE T-16, which they hated for its lack of crew space and weather protection. This veh sports the hand-painted number 68, which if a TAC sign, is the Carleton & Yorks.

The pic isn't much clearer, but maybe you can discern a little bit more of the box; all I was thinking about was using a 216 to pull all that weight!

[cletrac (RIP)]

Hanno, the only info I have is from the parts manual so I'll post the two pages that show the different fittings on the various models. The seats mentioned in this first page are ordinary CMP seats. The ones in the second page are the special personnel bench seats.
My impression is that the benches would go along the sides and over the wheel wells and the CMP seats would be in the middle, but I've been wrong before!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by cletrac

My impression is that the benches would go along the sides and over the wheel wells and the CMP seats would be in the middle, but I've been wrong before!

See Troop seats in 15 cwt personnel truck.

H.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Geoff, I doctored your pic in Photoshop to try getting stuff a little clearer. That number looks more like it was written on the photo rather than painted on the truck. The shadows don't seem to go over the number like they should.
I can't quite decide whether I can see some fairleads there or not. That chain is coming out at the centre of the bumper where the fairleads would be and the cable is hooked between the D-rings. It looks like there's some vertical irons where the fairleads should be. If they had a winch they'd need the 2 speed transfer case to have the PTO. My 11 cab F15A ex-firetruck has a 2- speed transfer case in it with the PTO so I'll have to check and see if it looks original or not.
It also looks like the soldiers behind the cab have seats there.

[cletrac (RIP)]

On a search for 6 pounders I came up with this pic. The page didn't mention a location. I wonder if the interior fittings are proper. The parts list mention a spare tire holder that's likely for a spare for the gun.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I'm trying to get all info I can find on the 2A1 on this thread so I might as well post the remaining three parts list pages.

The parts numbers are the same as in the previous parts list drawings.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

I found an original 2A1 body in dry Saskatchewan farm area near Estevan, Saskatchewan (south east corner of the province) and brought it out to British Columbia in 1986. I later traded it to Gary Moonie of Victoria for use as a pattern to make the rear body for his prototype (only key difference we noted was tailgate on prototypes did not have notch cut out in top). All the metal fittings were there. An interesting detail you won't note in photos is that each side plank was grooved on the edges and a thin piece of wood fit into it to act as a draft seal between the big planks. I did take lots of photos of it as found and then as dismantled.
A French collector once wrote to me as he had a 15 Cwt Cab 11 with original wooden 2A1 box. I think his had a German Army rebuild plate.

I also used to own the original wooden tool box (large one behind the cab). Correct for use in front of the 2A1 cargo box. There was no spare tire as they had runflats. This tool box sold with my C15A to a collector in Turleford, and was later reported to be in the hands of another collector. That was a Cab 13 with an original 2H1 body (wooden knock-down). As I recall this had a canvas cov er over the wooden likd.

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

This photo is Library and Archives Canada photo 24170 and the truck was with the Carlton and York Regiment. The archives did not provide the caption for the photo when I bought an 8x10 about 20 years ago.

The markings are on the truck. Yes, they are very crude and this crudeness was not normal.

68 is the unit sign.

The maple leaf on port (left) side opf truck is the formation sign.

42/1 is the unit serial and gives positive ID of the unit, without having to know any of the colours.

I believe the photo is taken in Italy, that there is a roundel on the roof (red/white/blue/vellow)[That glare makes confirmation dificult] and on the passenger window there is a circular marking.

Note Bren Gun on truck roof and a Lee Enfield. Also the 6 Pr cleaning rod tied to the top of the truck bows. The nuzzle of the 6 Pr is just visible henind the truck. There is also a jeep on the left covered by bystanders.


edited by moderator: click on image for large size scan

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's an early prototype one without the tailgate cutout from Blueprint for Victory. The cab and front sheet metal are quite different too.
Colin, could I get you to post those 2A1 pix or else email copies to me? There are still quite a few details that I haven't worked out.