2007 at the Hammond Barn

[Grant Bowker]

Here it is before priming (only done to prevent rust setting in), proper paint will be done once the rest of the repairs are done.

[RHClarke]

I blame Grant and Bob for this one. They noticed the different diamond plate pattern on my HUP running boards. I had my original driver side running board plate replaced with modern pattern plate. I figured only a select few would notice the difference.

After a cleaning jag, I found my "spare" running board which has the OEM spec diamond plate. So I swapped them out.

Here is the contrast between the two plates:

The before shot (modern plate pattern):


The after shot (OEM plate pattern):


There is minor difference, but when you work with perfectionists, well, "While in Rome"...

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by RHClarke
There is minor difference, but when you work with perfectionists, well, "While in Rome"...

Hell man, SOMEONE has to keep you on the straight-and-narrow!



PS: Is Cheri moping because I'm not there?

[RHClarke]

G-Man,

I've always been and shall remain straight. The narrow part has passed me by - the middle age bulge is front and centre.

I agree with the intent of your statement, Bob and Grant are a great help.

You too could be of assistance by finding that elusive 45 HUP manual! There, that should take your mind off of Hammond's fairest server...

[cmperry4]

Well, that is interesting, but I understand the authenticity issues. And if you find the manual, make me copy!

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by cmperry4
Well, that is interesting, but I understand the authenticity issues. And if you find the manual, make me copy!

This manual has been available for the last 13 years...is this what you are looking for,,??

#5: 218 pages C8A-04 CHEV. ILLUST. SPARE PARTS LIST FOR HEAVY UTILITY 4x4 C/W PERSONNEL BODY - (INC. C8A-01, C8A-02, C8A-03, & C8A-04) (JUNE '45)

[Bob Carriere]

Rob

What manual are you looking for which two (Grant and I)do you want to look for it......

Are you looking for the 3 ring binder that contains the HUP parts listing that Phil gave you....???

I know where it is but won't tell you.....

See you in the barn......

Bob C.

[RHClarke]

Originally posted by Alex Blair
This manual has been available for the last 13 years...is this what you are looking for,,??

#5: 218 pages C8A-04 CHEV. ILLUST. SPARE PARTS LIST FOR HEAVY UTILITY 4x4 C/W PERSONNEL BODY - (INC. C8A-01, C8A-02, C8A-03, & C8A-04) (JUNE '45)

No C11A1? Rarer than rocking horse dirt I would think. We will have to chat, Alex.

[cmperry4]

C8A-04 I do have, thanks to Alex, which covers the '45 changes - I presumed Rob was referring to some as-yet unavailable operator's handbook. That would be nice to have - as would a facsimile reprint of the Gregg profiles.

[RHClarke]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
Rob

What manual are you looking for which two (Grant and I)do you want to look for it......

Are you looking for the 3 ring binder that contains the HUP parts listing that Phil gave you....???

I know where it is but won't tell you.....

See you in the barn......

Bob C.

Ah, Bob! Such a teaser. I know where the manuals are "hidden". I'm just wondering if there was anything published after Aug '45 that relates directly to the C11A1 HUP. Something that shows the set up of the fold down table and lighting configurations...Oh well it gives me something to snivel about...

It looks like I am home-bound on Saturday - the missus wants deck seating and a new step off the deck - can't have little ones and tipsy mommies falling off the deck.

Sunday is a freebie! Lube up the splitter and let's get the firewood squared away.

See you Sunday.

[Bob Carriere]

.... already for Sunday.....

Is the C11a1 similar to the CMP C33.5 prototype....?

9 ish or weather permitting.......

Boob

[RHClarke]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
.... already for Sunday.....9 ish or weather permitting.......

Boob

That will give me about 2.5 hrs of quality HUP time prior to the wood marathon. By the way, are we going to cut down the old dead tree looming over your back yard on Sunday? Please! Can we?

[RHClarke]

I got to the barn a little after 7:00 AM and plumbed up the fuel lines for my HUP.



After a nice two hour HUP intensive session, Grant and Bob arrived all ready to split and stack Bob's firewood.
The morning was cool to start, but soon heated up after we wrestled some fairly large pieces. Grant put his airforce training to good use - he ably demonstrated his "pile it" training. Bob is a magician with the splitter. We took turns running the splitter, fetching wood and stacking. After a quick lunch break at Chez Marie, we finished the wood pile.



Once completed, Bob fetched the beer and we took a small break. After some war stories about being a bird gunner, Bob led us down to the barn for some CMP fun. Bob and Grant try to fab up a new breather assembly for Bob's Chev. Hopefully they will post the end product as I had to head for home before they finished.



Way to go Team Canada - 6-1 over the scrappy Russians. Canada takes the series with a 7-0-1 record. Beats the hell out of the '72 series!

[Bob Carriere]

Here is what Rob was referring to......

....back in my younger days..... when we played with old cars but had little money for parts we used to devise cheap air filters from aluminum pie plates.

so out of concern for nuts or botls being dropped in the carb opening.... and to keep "yellow jackets" from nesting I made myself a very effective air filter.....using two Stainless steel pie plate from Princess...( 2.99 each) and 9 inch paper filter element from Canadian tire...

Voila......

[Bob Carriere]

..for the near sighted....

[Bob Carriere]

...do you think it is possible to install a dizzy in a Chev 6 and run the engine and not have oil pressure.....

Yep..... done that.....

CAUTION..... if you remove the distributor and re-install and do not carefully make sure it is deep enough you can actually start the engine and the tang on the distributor shaft not being engaged in the oil pump shaft you get no oiling.....

Thank God for a good mechanical oil pressure gauge.... we stopped the engine..... check everything around...oil level...is the gauge working.... Grant's logic was that the pump was not turning.

We removed the dizzy again..... and reprimed the oil pump using an electric drill and an old screwdriver shaft...presto... 42 pounds of pressure..... we measured the lenght of the screwdriver shaft and compared with the dizzy shaft..... came out about 5/16 short

It seems that the gear on the dizzy shaft engages the cam drive gear but if you dizzy shaft spade in not properly oriented it fails to engage in the pump recessed slot.......

Could be a costly mistakes....... got it corrected by my fiddling with the dizzy shaft from above while Grant underneath slowly rotated the flywheel with a large pry bar...... I felt a distinctive click as the dizzy drop in at least another quarter inch.

Eventually ran the engine..... now running at 42+ on oil pressure and steady vacuum at 19/20........ still have to use partial choke as it is running to lean....... could be a fuel pump problem.... or Dan suggested maybe using too large an aftermarket Rochester carb....... Got the engine to 180 degrees.... nice and smooth.... Grant notices some high frequency whistle from where he was standing on the carb side....... leaking intake manifold..... confirmed by spraying ether up close to manifold with resulting increase in rpm...... next time will use the propane torch and try to pin point exact location.

It seems that now that it has been ehated up at least one cycle we may need to loosen up all the intake bolts and retighten from the center out...... carefully.......

Sure glad I am working out these bugs before all the sheet metal gets installed.......

Any suggestions and comments or even strange incantations related to the re-tightening of the manifolds are welcomed......

One of these days will shoot a video of it running across the field
.....and me running behind!!!!

BooB

[Phil Waterman]

i Bob

About getting technical good point. I've seen two variations on this that are I hope worth adding to the collective knowledge bank.

First – involves breaking the pin that locks the drive gear to the distributor shaft, driving down the road pin breaks engine coughs and bangs as the timing is lost and a quick look at the instruments shows the oil pressure dropping to zero while the engine is still turning. I didn’t want to kick the clutch in as I was going down hill and still wanted the brake boost. Pulled the truck over to side of road and had a pretty good idea that I had lost the distributor drive, confirmed by removing the cap and turning rotor. (The engine seemed to suffer no harm from this short period of no oil pressure while still spinning.)

Second – I have not seen but have heard of. While doing engine work on Chevy 261 mechanic wants to prime the engine with oil so he plugs oil filter lines and screws a pressure gage in to the supply port for the filter line on block to check pressure. Primes the engine with oil by the trick of drill and screw driver bit in distributor hole. Good oil pressure, in install distributor, start engine good oil pressure, engine seizes. We all hopefully know the reason beware of full flow oil filter systems.

[Bob Carriere]

My engine was rebuilt by the only professional engine rebuilder in Ottawa. At least they are the only ones that still do everything from disassembly to wash, magnaflux and machine shop work....all others ship out of town for piece work.

Well I picked up my engine and noticed that on the exhaust side two brand new brass (Allen key) plugs had been tightly installed each in the oil output and oil return port of the engine block ...perfectly glued in with thread sealer or plumber's cement......

When I asked the expert they told me I could use the ports for an oil filter at a later date if I wished to do so..... but could test run the engine as is........

....fortunately I had read enough caution and warning on the Stovebolt forum concerning the peculiarity of the 261 and that it could not be run without an external by pass line at the very least.

I am now going back to the Stovebolt forum to get ideas on how to resolve my manifold leaks........

Nothing like tapping the collective experience of all the old "Bowtie" mechanics.....

Bob C.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bob

I've tried everything and the only long term solution to exhaust manifold leaks that I have found is the Fenton two piece manifold.

Combination of the new gas, asbestosless gaskets, and one size fits all early or late 216,235,261 gaskets just seems to make for problems.

Cheers

[Paul Singleton]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere


Well I picked up my engine and noticed that on the exhaust side two brand new brass (Allen key) plugs had been tightly installed each in the oil output and oil return port of the engine block ...perfectly glued in with thread sealer or plumber's cement......

When I asked the expert they told me I could use the ports for an oil filter at a later date if I wished to do so..... but could test run the engine as is........

Bob C.

Bob, 261 engines used in Canadian pontiac cars have the same oiling system as the 235. If you put a jumper line across the pipe plugs in the block the oil from the pump will go directly into the oil pan and not to the engine. The 261 truck engine in the U.S. does have a "full flow" oil filter and has much larger oil lines than engines with the bypass type filter. How large are the pipe plugs in the block? If I recall correctly the plugs on the U.S. type engine are 3/8 pipe because all the oil must flow through the filter. Maybe Phil Waterman could post a picture of one of his 261 engines so that we could see the difference.

Paul

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by Paul Singleton
Bob, 261 engines used in Canadian pontiac cars have the same oiling system as the 235. ... The 261 truck engine in the U.S. does have a "full flow" oil filter and has much larger oil lines than engines with the bypass type filter. How large are the pipe plugs in the block? If I recall correctly the plugs on the U.S. type engine are 3/8 pipe because all the oil must flow through the filter. Maybe Phil Waterman could post a picture of one of his 261 engines so that we could see the difference.

Paul

Strange you should ask for a picture check out http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...&threadid=7879 from a while back. I posted just that picture.

[Bob Carriere]

Compared to the 235 or Stew's 261 engine I GOT BIG ONES....

We joked about this before.....my engine came from a 5 ton + fuel delivery truck......maybe amde in the US.....

...my oil ports are actually 1/2 pipe thread into which is fixed a 5/8 flared steel line that connects to a cast aluminum long and tall oil filter that bolts on the intake manifold.

It is full flow alright...... I ran the engine with a loose coupling and spilled over a liter of fresh oil on the floor in a matter of seconds.

I am trying to use part of the original steel lines connected to a new 1/2 inch rubber oil line connected to a twin PH 8 spin on filter hidden inside the frame on the passenger side. Gives me more capacity, ease of filter changes and cheap readily available filters.

On a seperate issue....... the leaking manifold.....

Grant and I spent some time snugging up the manifold bolts to about 35 ft pounds..... I say about as you can only get the darn troque wrench on 3 of the outboard bolts...... the two inner ones have to be done by feel....

Anyways she ain't wisthling no moe' .... seems to have solved the leaking intake manifold....... vacuum is marginaly better but still idles rough....ruff ruff....... need to tweak some more ......
and learn some more. We also doped up all the other suspect vacuum lines. Spraying the starter fluid made no difference this time.... except Grant fell asleep!!!!!

May try a rebuilt Rochester "B".... the original that came on the 261 to see if I am over carburated with the current NOS Rochester.

More fiddling this weekend.....

Bob

[RHClarke]

Bob decided to renovate his cathouse. Grant took a day off from the barn. That left me with the whole shooting match, so I got down to business with my seat mounts and a few barn chores.

First on the schedule was the reassembly of the seat mounts. The seat mount consists of a base frame, an adjustment lever with a spring, a vertical metal tab, two sets of side rails and the fasteners required to hold the rails and lever to the frame.



After I reassembled four mounts I started work on the last two of six seats I plan on installing. Normally, the 45 HUP has two seats in the cab, two mounted to the rear inside van, and a intermediate bench seat - which I have yet to find or reconstruct. Instead I will be using two "normal" CMP seats in lieu of the bench seat.

After the seat session, I filled in some potholes using gravel dug out from in front of the three Dodge 3/4 tons - we plan on moving the trio to a drier spot. I still get a kick of the trees growing in and around the one 3/4 ton.







Caption: Park it here, Bombardier. Cam her up. We'll be staying a while...

[RHClarke]

Grant showed up with chainsaw aready. The goal today was to clear out the scrap wood growth near the three Dodge 3/4 tons. See photos in previous thread.

The clearing out revealed one really adventurous swamp maple that really liked the rear end of one Dodge:



One branch had grown thru a rear bumperette:



And another branch "swallowed" the pintle hook:



Post surgery (pun fully intended):



Grant, now nicknamed "Gordon" - as in those terrible Bell Canada Beaver adverts, decided to clear out all of the scrub brush near the shed.




Meanwhile, Bob the Builder spent the day working on the cathouse:

[Bob Carriere]

.... I didn't remember that I had 3 Dodges back there....?
............... who knows what else they will find.....

....and as for the pintle hook tree.... it is called a "Hammond
anti- theft device".......

Wife said I could not go to the cat house any more so I am building my own..... hihihi

All the extra wood goes to Lucifer for the Winter....extra space will be used to install canvass Winter shelters for the poor baby..... CMPs.....

Nice to have friends around....!!!!

Boob
...so cool tonite I actually lite the first fire in the wood stove for this season....

[cmperry4]

Thought those trees looked a bit like Manitoba maples - those things grow like weeds - they are weeds! Nice where you want them, but you really have to get after them where you don't want them.

Rob talking about 45 bench and jump seats reminded me I have some nice detail shots of those from Frantisek the Czech. Do you have them also?


Nice bunch of Dodges - only-in-Canada radio van, too! Winnipeg police used one of those as their bomb-disposal truck for a time. There was another one used by a local company for seismic blasting in the bush - their dynamite hauler. I think it may be one that one of our Prairie Command members has the remains of.

Guys with chainsaws can do way too much way too fast sometimes, but that is pretty impressive.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by cmperry4
Guys with chainsaws can do way too much way too fast sometimes, but that is pretty impressive.

Hehehehe.... the 'artistic' application of a unique Canadian iteration of the "gas axe"....

Now, c'mon, sing along with Grant "Gordon" Bowker...

"I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay,
ah sleeps all night an' ah works all day...

the rest can stay up in Hammond!

[RHClarke]

Originally posted by cmperry4


Rob talking about 45 bench and jump seats reminded me I have some nice detail shots of those from Frantisek the Czech. Do you have them also?

Mark, Yes. They are great shots and I will be doing the math to convert photo dimensions to 1:1 scale. The intent is to replace the two CMP seats with a bus bench seat that will be modified, with the ultimate goal of finding a real HUP bench seat (Look! Pigs flying...).

This week I hope to "mate" the body to the frame but need your assistance in finding exactly where the spacers are located. I marked the spacer general locations (see photo), but as usual left out that important detail. When you get a chance, could you run a tape measure and provide the measurement for the front of each spacer? That would be much appreciated.

[RHClarke]

With the kid at school (yahoo!) and the wife out shopping, the barn beckoned. This morning I decided to fix the extra ventilation in my seat pans.

Metal tabs were cut out with just enough area to cover the holes.

Once welded on, they made a great platfrom for the reattachment of the the seat frame.The seat mount was used as a "jig" to ensure the rails would fit.

The end result - not pretty, but it worked.

[RHClarke]

Grant and I decided to help Bob re-organize the yard. We moved scrap wood to the BB burn pile, cleaned up Bob's wood splitting site, stacked wood for Lucifer and then decided to move the Dodges to the wagon lines.

This is the before (taken earlier this month) shot:



Nothing left but holes:



Afterwards (Bob and Grant decided the Volvo should go too..):



More holes:



The wagon lines:



Inspection. Bob's neighbour - an old army RCEME type checks out the progress at the barn. Marcel liked what he saw, but in true CWO fashion was not happy with the state of cleanliness...