Restoration of Hull 731- Carrier, MG (Aust) Mortar Carrying

[jack neville]

One for attack and one for retreat perhaps!!

[Ian Mastin]

It's the bottom one for me! Darrin.



Ian

[Darrin Wright]

Thanks Ian, I have a AWM pic that displays the Buffalo facing to the left.

Last night I installed the remaining 2 rear stowage boxes on the rear shelf.

Over the last week I have studied the reference pics when recovered (prior to restoration) and the official painting guides. What I have discovered is that no guide was followed. They just did their own thing, sort of...

I have used masking tape to give me a rough outline of where the camouflage lines will run.
Tonight is sits with tape all over it.

have done some test samples of light stone and different percentages of UFB to dull it down. Getting there with the matching satin effect.

[Darrin Wright]

Over the last week I have slowly been brush painting the light stone onto the hull, following the original paint scheme where I can and utilising the camouflage guide from WW2 where the pattern had weathered away.

Bit daunting as to whether I was doing the right thing, when you restore a vehicle you try so hard to make sure you do the best job possible. I really put a lot of effort and time into the spray painting, and here I am using a brush to paint the light stone onto the hull of the vehicle.

Once I started painting, due to the light colour, there was no going back as it would have been a big job had I changed my mind to paint it over with green.

I am happy with the pattern and the colour. The light stone is within shades of the Paint Standards guide. It is a bit on the gloss side, but that will fade and dull down with use.

Engine cover is in with the lower panels in place.
What equipment & kit that I have collected over time is being fitted to the vehicle.

Getting close to a track adjustment and possibly a brake adjustment as the shoes are bedding in.
Not sure if I can get away with a quick adjustment on the top adjuster on the brake drums or if I will have to break track and adjust as per the manual.

[Darrin Wright]

After the information posted on MLU, my research and some reference pics and tracings of original numbers, I had a sign shop create the stencils for all the numbers and markings.

It took nearly all weekend to prep, apply, mask up, paint, un-mask & clean up, but I have just over half the markings on the vehicle.

[Darrin Wright]

I also visited the Army Museum at Bandiana and measured & traced their brackets and clips for the web straps that hold the water can and water bottles in place.

After that I started making the hooks & buckles. Will cut up a 37 pattern web strap and have it sewn together to form the correct strap. Will also hand sew in the other straps onto the loops welded onto the water bottle brackets and water can bracket at the rear.

Many years ago I purchased a few water bottle covers (possibly off MLU), these have now been fitted and sewn up on the water bottles that I have collected over the years. Will install into the hull when the straps are completed.

[Howard]

Fascinating, Darrin! Love your work.
H

[Ryan]

Bloody awesome.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

When the unit was posted to join 23 Inf Bde, they were allocated the unit sign of 53 on a red background, as per NT Force GS Instruction dated 15 December 1942.....Why 53 on red? Hell, I don't know: some officer in higher HQ said so, that's why!

I think we can make sense of it Mike. It seems there were two separate units formed from 10 and 48 Inf Bns:

1. E Coy, 48 Inf Bn joined 19 MG Regt in late '42, converting them to 19 MG Bn within 23 Inf Bde. Unit sign for MG Bn at that time was 53 on Red, which would seem to explain the December '42 instruction. Vehicle marking system changed in January '43, the new unit sign for NT Force MG Bn being 35 on Red. These Jan '43 instructions also introduced NT Force formation sign (Buffalo on Boomerang) which I assume would be present on all vehicles by March. The earliest appearance in photos I can actually date is 15 March.

2. 10/48 Inf Bn joined 3 Inf Bde in late '42, then joined 23 Inf Bde in March '43. As the last to arrive their unit sign should be 77 on Brown as you say.

Not sure what this means for Darrin's carrier but hopefully it adds to the picture. Info below reproduced from Australia's Forgotten Army Volume 2:

[Mike Cecil]

Tony, thank you! Now I see where I blundered!

As at 15 Dec 1942 10/48 Inf Bn were part of 3 Inf Bde (not 23 Inf Bde: my misinterpretation of the original instructions. To be fair, they are pretty badly presented.). 3 Inf Bde were the senior Brigade at that time, consisting of:
27 Inf Bn Veh sign 50
43 Inf Bn, veh sign 99
10/48 Inf Bn, veh sign 53

all of which had a red background. (E Coy is no longer relevant to the 10/48 markings story, as they had transferred to 19 MG Regt.)

The battalions in 23 Inf Bde at that time had a green background (7, 8 and 2/4 Pnr Bn) and 19 Inf Bde had a brown background (2/4, 2/8, 23/21 Bns).

When 10/48 Inf Bn was moved to 23 Inf Bde, they were allotted the unit sign 93 on a Green background, as per NT Force GS Instruction 37 of 6 April 1943.

So:
10/48 Bn Dec 42 to March 43: 53 on red. (part of 3 Inf Bde).
10/48 Bn March 43 till Sept 43: 93 on green (part of 23 Inf Bde until end Sept, then became part of 2 Inf Bde, then in July 1944, moved to 12 Aust Inf Bde)

Formation sign: Buffalo on boomerang from Jan 43 onwards.

Thank you.... I think we have it sorted!

Pity Graham Mck-Smith only produced the two volumes, they are excellent references. His original intention was to produce volumes to cover the entire mainland, but I've not seen anymore than V1&2: have you?

Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

Thanks for the explanation Mike. I'm always in the dark concerning late '42 unit serials, as the relevant instructions found in Taubert's work appear to be incomplete. Specifically, those relating to the new numbering system introduced in March '42:

SM 5849 of 30 March '42 instructs that: "AMF and AIF in Australia will adopt a new series of Unit serial numbers......Appendix "C" to SM 3457 will be destroyed and Appendix "A" to this instruction will be substituted." However, when I look at Appendix "A", which is indeed titled "Standard Unit Numbers for Inf. Divs.", I find it lists no numbers whatsoever, only background colours. Do you happen to have the applicable numbers Mike?

I agree with you concerning Graham McK Smith's work. I bought Volume 2 some time ago while researching my NT Force FGT8 provenance, and found it extremely comprehensive and immediately intelligible, even to my untrained mind. I particularly like the monthly location lists, which enable you to see at a glance exactly when each unit arrived and departed NT Force, as well as their precise movements within NT Force. As such it's an extremely useful ready reference, with further detail concerning movements and activities provided in the text. However it's more than just a research reference - I find it provides an excellent overall appreciation of WWII in the Northern Territory, by virtue of well structured chapters summarizing each stage of deployment, and explaining the policy and objectives behind them, all aimed at resisting the expected Japanese invasion. I'd very much like to read something similar on the Eastern States, but as you say Mike it appears he never completed the series. Which is perhaps not surprising, given his mention of 14 years researching Volume 2 alone! I can well believe that, given the breadth and detail found within. If anyone reading this thread is interested I have a spare copy available.

[Mike Cecil]

Tony,

Short answer is no, I don't: I suspect we sourced the same copy of SM5849. All I have for most of 1943 are unit and formation instructions which provide only unit-specific data, such as that for 10/48 Inf Bn mentioned above, and spread across a variety of dates throughout 1943 and early 1944 until the change to the two-tiered unit sign in August 44.

Mike

[Tony Wheeler]

Thanks Mike, I figured that was the case but thought it worth asking anyway. I note Taubert's introductory remarks: "Note should be made of the fact that during certain periods information on specific unit numbering does not exist (Part 2 of this manual). The reasons for this are many...."

[Darrin Wright]

Thanks guys for the detailed info on unit markings. Confusing now and it would have been just as confusing back in 1943. Some unit commanders would have been quick or slow to apply these changes and also depending on stores etc available at the time. So there would have been any number of vehicles sporting different unit markings during those busy days in and around Darwin.

My vehicle will be correct for Dec 42 to Mar 43 and I am happy with that as it ties in with the unit diary that I have for that time period.

From info gained in the 3" Mortar thread I have decided that the likelihood of ever finding a Mk1 base plate and then being able to purchase it would be quite remote. I have been following prices on mortar items and they are a little high to extreme. If and when the items come up.

So with that in mind, what does one do?

Well I decided to scale a replica baseplate from the pics on MLU and the mounting brackets in my hull.
So for less than $100 (and that includes buying the electric jigsaw cutter) I purchased 12mm ply, dowel wood and some wood screws and cut and assembled a baseplate. I then used automotive spray putty to fill in the wood grain and gaps; and when dry, a good heavy brushed coat of green left over from my Dodge restoration.

It has now dried and is mounted in the stowed position in the hull.

This was about 6hr of work to complete.

Being wood, it is quite light and does not pose a danger to my mortar crew (who are currently aged 12 & 14).

I think next I will try my hand at making a Vickers MG as I have the AutoCAD plans from Ebay. Not sure if I should go with a wooden or laser cut steel body?

[Darrin Wright]

Also in the last few days I have purchased a Mortar aiming post, been to Wangaratta and collected the items and unseized the centre hinge.
I think this was a black & white post from the remains of the paint left on it. Made in 1941.
Not sure how these would have been stowed as there are no brackets that are identifiable for this role, perhaps loose or strapped in/on the hull. I see on Colin's Mortar Carrier they have specific brackets and a location.

I also followed up on some leads to other BGC and items and today went and collected track and wheels from a diary farmer near home. The track had been used to weigh down a plough and the wheels were on a home made trailer that is now off to the scrap.
Just it time but 5 years too late, as they had 2-3 BGC, engines, track and other spares to keep them running. Unfortunately all gone now, but I managed to get the last items for a trade in red wine.

[Mike Cecil]

Good job, Darrin,Like the wooden base.

Whichever Unit marking you chose would only be relevant to a few months, so it might as well be the 3 Inf Bde period, the Bde 10/48 were first assigned to on arrival in NT.

At least we have nailed it down pretty well now, I think, and you have a good idea of its (your carrier's) movements.

Mike

[Darrin Wright]

Hull stencils are just about finished, so when I get it out of the wksp I will get some pics to update you on.

[Tony Wheeler]

Nice job on the replica base plate Darrin. It got me thinking about digital printing and what role it may play in the future for jobs like this. Some of the newer techniques can produce metal objects, and they're already used for complex shapes like aircraft parts and orthopaedic implants because they're cheaper than conventional manufacturing processes. It's only a matter time before this technology becomes fully commercialized and affordable in automotive and general industry. For example, consider the potential of Selective Laser Melting for those hard to get WWII vehicle parts:

"Selective laser melting is an additive manufacturing process that uses 3D CAD data as a digital information source and energy in the form of a high-power laser beam to create three-dimensional metal parts by fusing fine metallic powders together. Most machines operate with a build chamber of 250 mm in X & Y and up to 350 mm Z (although larger machines up to 500 mm X,Y,Z and smaller machines do exist). The types of materials that can be processed include stainless steel, tool steel, cobalt chrome, titanium & aluminium."

[jack neville]

Fascinating prospects Tony. A little sad at the same time. Just as eBay and the Internet is slowly but surely impacting on the good old days of swap meets where sellers don't haggle as much, the reply "I can get more on eBay mate", a common answer, the future of just getting a new part 'printed' will deprive future restorers of the satisfaction of resurrecting basket cases. Then again there is comfort in knowing that everything will be possible and nothing should ever suffer for a lack of parts.

[Tony Wheeler]

I had much the same thoughts Jack. This kind of futuristic technology certainly takes all the romance out of restoration. I think for that reason it will remain a last resort for serious restorers. However it could pose issues for the restoration community in general. For example, what happens if it gets to the stage where you can "print" a whole BGC? Or a Sherman tank? Sounds laughable, but we've already seen guns "printed" so it's really just a question of scale. Perhaps the day will come when MV's need some kind of Certificate of Authenticity to participate in events, particularly commemorative events. I believe it's this kind of regulatory/compliance challenge which has thus far delayed widespread introduction of this technology.

[jack neville]

The only barrier so far is cost. And it's getting cheaper by the day. Tiger Tank anyone?

[Darrin Wright]

Although not done by a 3D printer, I heard of a Tiger tank project done in Poland (I think) due to close access to originals for patterns and templates, high unemployment and lots of infrastructure not being used. So anything is possible.

I think 3D printers & the manufacture of parts will start to become more cheaper and it may bring down the cost of original parts, there are some people out there sitting on rare/expensive parts waiting to sell them for top dollar. When the cost of printing the part is cheaper, then people will go with that option, and that may/should bring down the cost of parts.

A mate and I are looking at 3D printing of the rectangular 1941 BGC hull data plates as we have an excellent sample from hull VR414 to copy. So stay tuned on that one.

[Dale Jordan]

Excellent news with the data plates , A lot of carrier owners are missing them , will you make masters with 1941 - 1942 etc with a blank section that can be stamped and then cast in metal ?

[Tony Mathers]

Originally Posted by Darrin Wright

Although not done by a 3D printer, I heard of a Tiger tank project done in Poland (I think) due to close access to originals for patterns and templates, high unemployment and lots of infrastructure not being used. So anything is possible.

It was done on the volga (near stalingrad)

http://izismile.com/2012/02/14/handc...s_1_video.html

Originally done for the film "White Tiger" but not ready in time alas....

[Darrin Wright]

Have commenced sewing the first of the straps into the hull.
Borrowed a sail needle and heavy duty thread from a friend.
Have only sewed 1 strap so far, the RHR water can strap, and now have a sore thumb from pushing the needle through. Took about 40min to get the sore thumb.
Sewed a square pattern with a cross through it onto the strap.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Darrin

Here is the tool you need for small strap projects.

http://www.sailmakerssupply.com/product/1012/23

Check with a good sailing supply company.

Also good for canvas repair, seat covers etc. If you really want to make the stitching look good, lay it out and mark the lines and individual stitches with sewing chalk.

Cheers Phil

[Grant Bowker]

Similar sewing awls are also sold at leatherwork shops. Or if you can't find it locally http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,43456,50700
http://zelikovitz.com/courses.html?p...ord=sewing+awl
http://zelikovitz.com/courses.html?p...ord=sewing+awl
But there has to be someone closer to you who sells these to keep the post to a reasonable level.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Grant

The version you found http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,43456,50700 is the one I wanted show, I've had mine for more than forty years going back to teaching sailing as a teen great for sail repair and preventive restiching. Mine came from L.L.BEAN but they don't list it anymore. Also good for repairing boots.

The needles that come with it are a little large for seat covers, but stop in at a sewing shop that you can find needles meant for commercial sewing machine with thinner needle shafts but thick shanks. Buy them in boxes of 5 because they will break.

Cheers Phil

[Darrin Wright]

Well have finally sewn all the straps into the hull where they have to go.

I was expecting to sew the strap onto the air-scoop for the tow cable, but after reading the spare parts book, it stated to use to Bifurcated rivets to fasten the strap to the metal loop. That saved a bit of work.

Have installed a strap onto the engine cover where the Hotchkiss ammunition box would go; however, it also is capable of stowing a Vickers ammo tin.

Have also attached a pic of the flare box showing the 3 colours and how they wrap around the lid. I have not re-painted the lid, it is in very good condition and shows the original colours and how they were applied.
there are a couple of people out there working on flare boxes now.

[Darrin Wright]

Have only managed a number of smaller jobs with Christmas, school holidays, etc.
Manufactured a Vickers aiming post, blasted and painted it.

Bought a 3" Mortar aiming post, cleaned that up and painted it black & white. Not exactly sue how & where it should be stowed, Have a suspicion that the 2 threaded mounting blocks on the LH inside hull may be for a tube bracket to take the 2 aiming posts. Will never know.

Utilising the only WW2 internal pic, have scaled the 2 wooden mounting blocks on the engine cover to take the mortar tube and not sure what else. Have only just cut the scallops out for the curve of the tube & undercoated them.

With all the little bits & pieces that I have collected over time, have stowed some of it into the vehicle.

Every couple of days try and get the vehicle out and drive it to bed in steering and brakes, all works fine. I expected to lose some braking as shoes bed in, but it is only very minor at this stage. Around Christmas the temp was too hot to drive (no fun in that for me, vehicle would have been fine),now we have just been drenched with 40mm of rain- now its too wet. Maybe next week...