Richie's Mk1 Restoration - Page 17

chris vickery · #**481** 27-04-14, 01:20

I just confirmed that 32-41 cams are approx 3/8" longer than 42-48 cams.
hence your problem.
The cam is holding the dizzy out from the face of the plate as the crab has a longer nose.
In 1942, the longer cam was discontinued. Anyone who needed to replace a cam in a motor with a divers helmet dizzy required a spacer button inserted into
the end of the 1942 camshaft.
You should grab hold of the front of your camshaft with a pair of pliers and give a wiggle, as
you may simply have a spacer button in the end of the camshaft.
If you have this button spacer simply pull it out and everything will fit.
If not you need the 2 bolt spacer Part# 9104248 (http://www.ebay.com/usr/speedway_mot...p2047675.l2559 in the USA) which will fill the gap between mounting plate and the face of your dizzy.

Lynn Eades · #**482** 27-04-14, 01:30

Rich, while you wait for the spacer.....
You asked about oil a while back.
I found an article about a flat head rebuild.
Go to www.systemv.us and then go to the engine section. he talks about the flat tappet engines which apparently need zinc in the oil... which is not there these days. An interesting read.

Richard Farrant · #**483** 27-04-14, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Go to www.systemv.us and then go to the engine section. he talks about the flat tappet engines which apparently need zinc in the oil... which is not there these days. An interesting read.

Lynn,
The oil manufacturers who specialise in making grades for vintage and classic vehicles are still producing lubricants with zinc in. In the UK, Morris Lubricants state they use it in the Golden Film classic oil and the Australian company, Penrite specify a "High Zinc anti-wear additive package" in their Classic oils.

chris vickery · #**484** 27-04-14, 01:54

I assume Richard that you used modern replacement bearing and adjustable lifters?
No need for fancy motor oils or additives.
On your first test run, start your motor up and slowly rev it up and hold at a medium RPM for a few minutes. You can run her up and down a few times but I would suggest to not run more than 15 or 20 minutes and dump the oil, replacing with fresh oil at the end of the test run.
As clean as you got the engine back from the machine shop, there will still be debris which was lodged away that you will want to get rid of (filings, assembly lube, dust, grime etc.
I believe the zinc additive was used during the time of hand poured Babbitt bearings and the like...

RichardT10829 · #**485** 27-04-14, 08:53

Thanks folks, I got an email from him at royal Kustoms who confirms the issue with the cam, old cam, later dizzy equals no fit ! Will order the spacer part !!

As for oil I am running the miller oils classic performance stuff, got two bottles of the stuff... My plan was to do as you said Chris and run it up then flush it out and put the new oil in prior to it going into the hull. I have a rather strong rare earth magnet on the sump plug to help with the collection of metal :-)

bigbryan · #**486** 27-04-14, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Rich, while you wait for the spacer.....
You asked about oil a while back.
I found an article about a flat head rebuild.
Go to www.systemv.us and then go to the engine section. he talks about the flat tappet engines which apparently need zinc in the oil... which is not there these days. An interesting read.

yes Lynn. In nascar racing a few years ago the small block chevy suddenly started to wear cam lobes and flat bottom lifters .They queried the oil companys , the only thing different was the removal of zinc in the oil .It didn't seem to worry the roller lifter engines .Bryan

Lynn Eades · #**487** 27-04-14, 10:34

Hi Big Bryan! good to see you here! How is your carrier coming along. I saw it at Andrews before he started on it.

RichardT10829 · #**488** 27-04-14, 20:53

Well spacer on order, cam slot fits the dog on the dizzy, so it's just the spacer to sort... In the mean time I setup my test rig box, filled the lump with oil, and pulled the plugs, then spun it over a few times.

http://youtu.be/Yp_7Ezik_cg

So frustrating, and the delay is doing my head in for my deadlines.

chris vickery · #**489** 27-04-14, 21:49

I assume Ruchard that you did indeed check to see if your cam had the button plug in place that was used to extend the length of the post 42 cams to fit earlier motors? It would be a shame to order a spacer and find out that you did not need it by removing a simple plug...

We want to see the test fire video when you get there!

RichardT10829 · #**490** 27-04-14, 21:51

Yeah Chris I give it a good tug ;-) but it's stock merc cam with no cap adaptor ... If only it had been that easy though !

hrpearce · #**491** 27-04-14, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

So frustrating, and the delay is doing my head in for my deadlines.

Richard it is amazing how much work can be done in the last week when the pressure is on, I think I did three months work in that last week.

Michael R. · #**492** 27-04-14, 22:58

YouTube vid posted in the comedy section... sheesh! Richie, what were you thinking?

RichardT10829 · #**493** 27-04-14, 23:47

Total technophobe matey, just hit upload and that was that

bigbryan · #**494** 28-04-14, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Hi Big Bryan! good to see you here! How is your carrier coming along. I saw it at Andrews before he started on it.

Hi Lynn,
Yep , its progressing along .
The 741b did me proud i went on Indian rally to Cromwell with a pre rally ride , of total around 3,000km around the South island .

RichardT10829 · #**495** 08-05-14, 22:07

Little update, the adaptor plate arrived today so I managed to get the dizzy fitted, looks great !

I am running 12v on the engine, and the pertronix ignition kit......I am not getting any spark... I am at a dead end at the minute, so if I perhaps list what I have done to trouble shoot, can any of you folk perhaps give me suggestions of things I might have missed ? (Can't see the wood for the trees and all that)

I have checked the negatives (earth) and all are good, the system cycles the starter, powers the gauges, and powers the fuel pump no problems

I have put a 12v light bulb across the coil which lights up, I have then cycled the starter and the bulb does not dim out (so I have no voltage drop issues)

I have had a spark plug in the ht lead for the coil..... Still no spark...

All of the kit is brand new

Any idea's ?

On a positive note I got good oil pressure just cycling the starter motor over so at least the pump is doing its job !

Richard Farrant · #**496** 08-05-14, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

Little update, the adaptor plate arrived today so I managed to get the dizzy fitted, looks great !

I am running 12v on the engine, and the pertronix ignition kit......I am not getting any spark... I am at a dead end at the minute, so if I perhaps list what I have done to trouble shoot, can any of you folk perhaps give me suggestions of things I might have missed ? (Can't see the wood for the trees and all that)

I have checked the negatives (earth) and all are good, the system cycles the starter, powers the gauges, and powers the fuel pump no problems

I have put a 12v light bulb across the coil which lights up, I have then cycled the starter and the bulb does not dim out (so I have no voltage drop issues)

I have had a spark plug in the ht lead for the coil..... Still no spark...

All of the kit is brand new

Any idea's ?

On a positive note I got good oil pressure just cycling the starter motor over so at least the pump is doing its job !

How have you wired the ignition system in? They are not wired like a conventional ignition,

RichardT10829 · #**497** 08-05-14, 22:21

The red and black from the dizzy go onto the pos and neg of the coil pack. The pos from the ignition switch comes down to the pos on the coil, and a second wire comes from the neg on the coil to the neg on the battery.

If that makes sense ?

hrpearce · #**498** 08-05-14, 22:29

I don't think you should have a neg from coil to battery the neg has to be broken to create a spark.

RichardT10829 · #**499** 08-05-14, 22:39

I have tried with and without (was told by the shop to put it on though)

hrpearce · #**500** 08-05-14, 22:50

I just google imaged ignition system and there are no images of the neg on the coil going to the battery, as I said before it is the neg being broken that creates the spark.

RichardT10829 · #**501** 08-05-14, 23:08

Like I say I tried with and without....

I have had a look inside the dizzy and it does not seem to have the plastic ring with the magnets on that I have seen.... Will need to ask about this methinks

That would explain a lot !

Richard Farrant · #**502** 08-05-14, 23:34

Hi Richard and Rob,

Electronic ignitions are not hooked up as conventional ignition circuits, here is a typical Pertronix set up.

http://www.geocities.ws/a65ragtop/VM...ertronix_4.jpg

motto · #**503** 09-05-14, 07:00

Yes, you must have the plastic collar that fits neatly on the breaker cam. The one in the Pertronix kit for my Dodge was a little loose so I used some aluminium tape to build up the cam.
As I recall there was no gap specified between the collar and the pickup so it can't be critical.

David

RichardT10829 · #**504** 09-05-14, 11:43

Spoken with the shop, the kit I have does not need the mag wheel, it works off the distance from the lobes on the drive.

I have confirmed my wiring with the shop and it's correct....... Looks like I will be pulling the kit off and sending it down for a check :-( delays delays delays

I will crack on with other bits and bobs in the interim

RichardT10829 · #**505** 09-05-14, 12:30

Right.... Re did all the earths, put a plug in the coil HT and bingo it pulses...

So from that I guess the module in the dizzy was working (as the plug was pulsing)

One thing I didn't check was wear on the dizzy cap, so I put a spot of marker on each terminal and ran the engine over a few times, no apparent contact !

So I am guessing the cap is the culprit ?

The leads are all new as is the rotor, the cap is an old one.... So my spidey senses are leaning towards that at the moment

Either that or the module is out of phase...

RichardT10829 · #**506** 14-05-14, 15:30

Well the ignition system came back from Royal Kustoms today, a big thank you to Jim Turnbull who turned the job around in one day for me..... The problem was with a faulty rotor. So new rotor and new cap was added

I plumbed the thing back together and juiced her up..... Here is the very first start up.... I had to prime the carb a few times, but she started after a couple of turns.....not bad for my first one !

I still need to tune everything in etc but will do some reading before I twiddle.
And I noted a faint wisp of smoke coming from the left bank water outlet on the head... Hoping that is residual crap that has been lying inside...hoping.....

Here is the footage.
http://youtu.be/ibyOJuRyrdw

shaun · #**507** 14-05-14, 22:32

That great news Richie ! Now get it fitted buddy ..... Head down and keep going !

Ben · #**508** 14-05-14, 22:33

well done mate. Looking forward to seeing it go together.

Lynn Eades · #**509** 15-05-14, 00:30

Great stuff! Classic sound!

RichardT10829 · #**510** 16-05-14, 22:03

Just a quick question.... Do you guys fit the tracks then put the lump in or vice versa ? I was pondering with putting the lump in then testing drive and gears etc etc then putting the tracks on, but if there is a reason not to do it this way I would love to hear it before I waste my time :-)