C60 cwt Signals CZMk IV - Page 2

Ganmain Tony · #31 03-08-13, 14:50

Sorry Gordon

Forgot to say thank you for posting the pictures of the interior. Wonderful job you have done to the old girl. Looking forward to more as you go along.

What this about a tractor project Bob???

With an unfinished Cab 11??

Gordon Yeo · #32 06-09-13, 03:11

Nothing new on the progress of the truck and not much prospect of any more soon. I spent two weeks in Manitoba helping renovating another site members basement, but I digress.
Thank you to Rob Love for facilitating the purchase of 11:00 x 20 tires for the Signals C60, couldn't have found a better deal any where else. He also took Neil and I into to the famous scrap yard, where I got few nice bits and bobs which will come in very handy. Rob, the tow bar parts came apart very easily and will be an easy fix.
Thank you to Perry Kitson for some fittings he machined and metal sheared.
Thank you the Tim Gillies and Albert Baines for procuring and cutting the replacement metal channel that holds the panels in place.
You guys have sourced and made things that I would have had great difficulty in finding.
As has been mentioned before, this site is one of the best, one of the friendliest and most helpful on the net.

Gord

Gordon Yeo · #33 14-09-13, 21:41

Such a nice a day I thought I should take the van body off the chassis. I hope it goes back on as nicely.

rob love · #34 14-09-13, 23:04

Gordon: For god's sake please slow down....you are making the rest of us look lazy.

Remarkable work, I must say.

Gordon Yeo · #35 14-09-13, 23:30

Rob

I thought I had slowed down, I haven't done anything with it since July. Now I can start taking the cab apart and cleaning up the chassis. Not having, what I call, a 'real job' gives me a lot more free time than most people.

Gordon Yeo · #36 22-09-13, 15:07

I have taken the cab apart and have found some curious bits, deficiencies and what needs repairing.
First, there is a fitting bolted to the interior of the cab on the drivers side. Does any one recognize what it is for?
The second and third picture are from the frame rail under the passenger side door. There was nothing that the pipe fastened to and nothing to suggest where it should connect. Any suggestions as to its purpose?
I also found that the carriers for the front wheel engage operator is missing, also missing on my other 60 cwt parts chassis. Is there a reason why these parts get removed?

rob love · #37 22-09-13, 15:36

The tacelmite button fitting would suggest that the pipe would be an external grease point for an otherwise hard to get to lubrication point. Could be for the release bearing or maybe the clutch linkage? Have a look at the motor positioning to see what t likely hooks up to.

Bob Carriere · #38 22-09-13, 17:01

.... your truck may have been equipped with a self destruction mechanisms for use in case of capture.

Phssssssssss booommmmmmm !!!!

Bob C

PS I don't understand the "carrier" part that is missing..... any pics??

Phil Waterman · #39 22-09-13, 17:38

Hi Gordon

I strongly suspect that the tube and fitting on the passenger side is the fitting for the air pump. I'll try and find a photo of the what the through frame fitting looks like for comparison.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers Phil

Gordon Yeo · #40 22-09-13, 17:58

Rob

Here is a picture of the engine ( well, the absence of ) that came with the truck, no transmission either. The tubing leading off the fitting looks rather large for grease and is a flared fitting.

Bob

You are no help at all!

Phil

Not to pick favourites, but your suggestion might be the winner. The piping would be what one would expect for an air line.

Thanks guys

Gord

Gordon Yeo · #41 22-09-13, 18:40

Bob
My computer skills are very poor and I can't upload the parts book page too show the missing parts, so its a thousand words instead. From the transfer case control shifter an operator goes down to the high/low declutch shaft in the transmission. It requires brackets to steady the cross control shaft that hold the operators that connect the shifter to the declutch shaft. All the plates and operators are missing. If this doesn't make sense, it is shown page 110 of the C60L 3 Ton spare parts book.
Everything from part #4.4993 to 4.4998 is missing, not a huge problem, just be nice to have.

Gord

Phil Waterman · #42 23-09-13, 20:05

Hi Gordon

Without going all the way back through the thread do you have a engine, bell-housing and transmission?

Cheers Phil

Bob Carriere · #43 23-09-13, 22:20

YOu need parts for the shifting system that goes from the 2 speed shifter tower to the front axle for choosing 2x2 or 4x4....

Usually bolted to the back end of the tranny ....... could be reproduced easily if needed or no original found.

Phil..... he should have the tranny at least....possibly the bellhousing.....BUT there was no engine....... but Gord is resources full and in a rural area,,,,,, whatch him dig up a 261 for rebuilding.....

Cheers

Gordon Yeo · #44 24-09-13, 00:56

Bob

I'll probably not bother getting the front drive engage mechanism for the truck, I can still engage the high/low which might come in handy. I have a 235c.i. engine gone through and just about ready to start up. You and Stewart, from Woodstock, are the 261 gurus, I couldn't handle all that power. The guys from Petrolia have been very gracious on helping me out with some cross over parts from the 216 to the 235 and set me up with a good transmission.

Gord

Bob Carriere · #45 24-09-13, 01:09

Hi Gord

Just fell off the firewood pile...... too dark to work.

the 4x4 option is good to have..... even when not engaged you will be spinning ALL the innards fo the front axle anyways. if your rear end is stuck on wet soft grass low range may not make much difference but the front axle kicking might make a difference.

You did have a tranny in the back of the truck didn't you.....

Are you going to connect the power brake system...... would be interested in how you do it..... parts wise in particular.

Anything I can help you with just ask.

Cheers

Gordon Yeo · #46 24-09-13, 01:13

Phil

I found a good 235 engine and did a very limited refurbish to it. It has fill flow oil and hydraulic lifters, and I raised the water pump with the adapter plate. I have been getting educated in the differences in ring gear teeth numbers and clutch plate diameters. I have the proper ring gear for the military starter and the large diameter clutch plate for a truck. I think I have the engine and tranny combo sorted.

Gord

Gordon Yeo · #47 24-09-13, 01:33

Bob

If I can't post a scan of the parts manual then do you really expect that I can post a video of an engine start up!!!!!

I think that I will try and find some way to have a brake booster that functions. The 15 Cwt. isn't prone to hurling me into the windshield and the increased weight of a 60 Cwt. will have to have the brakes boosted. I would wonder if the original booster could be replaced with the CCKW booster. There must be some thing that keeps those trucks going.

As to the four wheel drive engage, hopefully I wont be into that wet of conditions that the truck wont move in two wheel drive. If the need arises it will be desperate straights and I can crawl under the truck and engage manually. I think I should be able to.

Gord

Gordon Yeo · #48 06-10-13, 00:00

I have been stripping down the cab and chassis to sand blast, hopefully some of it will be done this week

Gordon Yeo · #49 06-10-13, 00:18

I have the upper cab in the shop to start working on it. From some of the horror stories were some people have started their restorations this may look like a walk in the park. The rust damage at the spot welds is the big issue and there will need to be some steel replaced. The upper roof section is in incredibly good condition, only surface rust and a few very small dents.

Phil Waterman · #50 06-10-13, 19:11

Hi Gordon

Great progress, you will definitely want to figure out a brake booster for your truck. Though these trucks do have good breaks, particularly when compared to other trucks of the day. Good working booster and keeping the brakes in adjustment are critical to being able to stop them.

The C60S or C60L with larger drums, as empty trucks are not bad without the booster, but with a load or body you really need the booster. Take it that you are missing the rather complicated linkage assembly for the booster as well.

I assume you are looking at some of the hot rod brake booster conversion, do keep us posted on what you work out for a booster.

Drove my C60S with the radio box up and down a auto road on a mountain near here yesterday, no problems going up 2nd-3rd gear going up but kept it in second coming down just to minimize the reliance on the brakes of stopping 10,000LBS of truck.

Cheers Phil

David Dunlop · #51 06-10-13, 22:16

Just a thought, but could the power/booster brake set up used on the White halftracks be modified/used for the C60?

David

Gordon Yeo · #52 06-10-13, 23:02

Phil and David

I have the original booster that was on the truck, but haven't opened it up to check condition. I can't imagine I will find a serviceable chamber inside the booster canister. So, the next question is what do I use. I have done a very quick internet search and there are under floor boosters for post war vehicles. Hopefully there will be a unit that can be made to function on the CMP system and fit into the mounting position. My concern with using a 60 to 70 year old brake booster is the reliability of vintage parts that my perish with age. Quite another thing to rebuild wheel cylinders and master cylinders with modern seals.

Gord

Grant Bowker · #53 07-10-13, 01:53

You may want to check with http://www.classicandexotic.com/stor...g-service.aspx as I believe these boosters are thhe origin of the boosters on the CMP and others of the period.
Other forums have had good feedback on brake parts and customer service from http://www.alretta.com/ When I called to ask about the box type master cylinder used on the C60X they weren't aware of the system (no surprise as it seems to have stopped production about late wartime as other technologies overtook) but seemed interested and helpful in attitude.

Barry Churcher · #54 07-10-13, 03:17

Hi Gordon
John Stewart in Stoney Creek have always done any of my boosters for the garage. I just had them stainless sleeve the wheel cylinders on the TA.
Cheers,
Barry

Gordon Yeo · #55 07-10-13, 04:48

Grant
Thank you for the suggestions about booster source, they look to be suppliers for the grand and exotic, don't they.

Barry

Thank you for your suggestion of the Stoney Creek shop, that looks a bit more like what I'm after. I'll be in touch for some more details.

Gord

Alex van de Wetering · #56 07-10-13, 10:26

Gordon,

Excellent work. It's good to see the Lindsey body getting the proper attention. I love the Lindsey bodies trucks, but sadly you don't see them too often at shows...at least not on this side of the pond.

Alex

Phil Waterman · #57 07-10-13, 18:52

Hi Grodon

You may be surprised, by the original booster, both of my C60 have their original boosters and in both cases all that was required was cleaning and replacement of the bellows to get them working well. One of my trucks had been sitting out in a field for years when I got it and was in sorry condition. (As the photo below shows) I did find an NOS one years ago that is my spare if one of them starts to go south.

Because of the linkage design and design of the booster the health of the booster is readily apparent if you have your foot on the brake when starting the engine. The only part I have found to cause problems is the vacuum check valve which is in the line coming from the manifold and there are modern replacements for these.

I bench tested the booster unit, wish I could find my notes on how much boost it actually adds, the design of the booster and the linkage is such that your full foot peddle pressure goes through to the master cylinder with the booster adding to that. One of the particular things I was testing for in bench testing was bleed down time.

I agree about wanting to be sure of the brakes, my drive down the mountain road this weekend it wasn't the booster that concerned me but not wanting to discover brake fade would occur on 6 miles of 8+% grade on a winding narrow road. I just followed the old truck dictum go down hills in the same gear you needed to go up. There were several full stops coming down and the truck stopped without effort.

But please do keep us posted on your progress and what you do on the brakes. Bye the way do you need to reline the brake shoes?

To add to the list of possible booster units take a look at http://vehiclesofvictory.com/buying-...tion-to-parts/ main site http://vehiclesofvictory.com/ This is where we found two NOS CMP boosters years ago for $75 each, they didn't know what they fitted. (Yes they are both gone now) but you never know might be worth asking.

Cheers Phil

Gordon Yeo · #58 14-10-13, 22:36

We have had some beautiful warm dry weather in the last week and I have had time to organize some sand blasting and painting. The upper cab and one door still need some metal work and finishing. Hopefully I can have all the major components painted and set aside to cure till fall work is completed. Then I can work away in the shop this winter finishing of the small bits and assembling the truck.

Here are a few pictures of the cab and chassis parts.

Phil
You give me great hope that my brake booster might be made serviceable, the exterior is in very good condition. A friend said maybe I s would get lucky and there would have been enough oil blow by from the engine to rust proof the interior. I'll ono better when I crack it open.

Ganmain Tony · #59 15-10-13, 09:11

I agree with Phil, Gordon. If you are prepared to go through the entire original brake system and replace every rubber, brake shoes etc and have all the parts you should have... the brake systems on these trucks are very safe and work very well.

I completely refurbished everything in my truck (F60L Cab 12) and spent several days studying the manual in regards to set up/adjustments and learning how to get the booster working properly and I nearly sent myself through the windscreen... they can really work that well, fair dinkum.

The two critical things I found were correct brake shoe position when installing brake shoes with newly bonded brake pads and correct set up of the booster to achieve maximum vacuum assist.

I could blab on... but that'll do.

Shane · #60 15-10-13, 09:52

No mate please BLAB on i need as much info that you can throw at me. This is what ill be doing over the next few weeks. Oh and do you have photos on which order the parts you began to put on the truck as you did your restoration?