Chevrolet C8 1940 Cab 11 restoration, The Netherlands - Page 2

Alex van de Wetering · #31 23-07-12, 23:42

Last week I disassembled one of the rear springs. The C8 springs are narrower than the springs of it's bigger CMP sisters, but the brackets are the same. So. there is a spacer between the spring and bracket, on the inside. You can just spot it on the pic of the spring and shackle on the bench.

The clip-bolts were hell to remove and all of the spacers have gone, so I will have to replace those as well as one of the spacers mentioned above, and some of the bushings and pins.
I spent more time than I hoped for cleaning up the leaves with the wire brush disk on the angle grinder, and gave it a coat of primer on the sun.

Alex van de Wetering · #32 23-07-12, 23:50

I also cleaned up the worst of the two rear shocks, after removing the link holding the remains of the rubbers and retainers used to secure it to the axle.

I came across a small imperfection on the casting of the Dayton shock, only to find out later that it was what remained of a hex bolt!

(last pic, just net to the hole) You can see on the pics that the big screw plug has also seen better days. I have been soaking both with penetrating fluid and hope to have a go at removing them in a few days.

Alex van de Wetering · #33 24-07-12, 00:00

In preparation of removing the front suspension I have started by loosening bolts of the front springs and disconnecting the drag link. I didn't have a large screw driver, so I use a piece of steel strip and a wrench to get the plug out.
I noticed the spring clips on the right Front spring all have a hole in them just under the bolt. It seemed somebody extended the clips by welding a piece onto them and than I realised the right spring has one more leaf compared to the one on the left. The parts manual shows both springs to be the same, so I have yet to investigate why my truck has one extra leaf....maybe one leaf is broken or the driver was just a heavy bloke???

Alex

Mike Kelly · #34 24-07-12, 10:08

Alex

The C8 rear springs are from a civilian 1939 or 1940 Chevrolet 1 Ton truck . I have a wreck of a 1939 1 ton truck here and the rear springs on it are identical to the C8

Mike

Alex van de Wetering · #35 13-08-12, 15:03

Today is my last day of holiday. Sadly I wasn't able to free up as much time for the C8 as I hoped for. But, I did start cleaning up the rear axle and we did build a Carport which will be the shelter for the C8 project for the time to come.

The rear axle showed some original paint; one of the colours came really close to the SCC2 sample I mixed up using Mike Starmers recipe (or is it just red oxide primer????). Another is a slightly blue-ish green....which I also have inside the cab and on some of the patches on the outside. I still wonder what that is.....SCC15 faded? Or remains of camo?
After cleaning up the center of the axle, I sprayed on a coat of black primer to protect it until I find the time to do the ends of the axle, and drive shaft.

@ Mike. Thanks for the comments on the springs. Could you maybe take a detail shot of the clips, bolts and spacers? Mine or to far gone to determine what they should look like. And also a pic of the brake rods for the handbrake on your truck? I only have the ends and the parts manual is somewhat confusing on the rods and cables.

Alex

Alex van de Wetering · #36 10-09-12, 22:57

The weather changed lately and the part of the rear axle that was exposed to the rain started showing light rust quite quickly, right through the primer

I was pretty disappointed in the quality of the primer I am using, so I decided to test another brand. I had to clean up the rest of the axle anyway, so I only needed to find the time to do so.

The "blocks" used to secure the axle to the springs proved to be very difficult to remove. The two halves are only secured with two slotted screws but I was only able to save one....one broke and I had to sacrifice two other to get everything undone. I am hoping I can still save the thread in the block itself, so I will be having another go at removing the stumps.

You might notice that I left the remains of the brake cable in position. Obviously these need replacing, but I plan to do this when the axle is fitted to the freshly painted chassis. I decided that now was a good time to clean up and paint as much of the axle as possible in the back of the yard...so I keep the chassis and carport area as clean as possible. I will rebuild the brakes and fit new cables in the front of the yard.

I also removed the front axle in the meantime, which was not too hard after I had already loosened all fasteners a few weeks ago.

Alex

Alex van de Wetering · #37 10-09-12, 22:58

The diff on the rear axle didn't show any sign of white paint, nor was I able to find any sign of a diff light ever being fitted. Was a white painted diff normal for an early CMP like mine? Or was this something done later on in the war?

Alex

Alex Blair (RIP) · #38 11-09-12, 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

The diff on the rear axle didn't show any sign of white paint, nor was I able to find any sign of a diff light ever being fitted. Was a white painted diff normal for an early CMP like mine? Or was this something done later on in the war?

Alex

Alex
The white paint on the rear axle housing was done in the field after the trucks were issued to the units..and painted white so that the drivers could see something when the vehicles were in convoy,or following each other in black out conditions,but could not be seen from above,only directly behind..If the truck was never used in convoy or in a blackout condition it may never have been painted white and an axle light not installed.
You are doing an excellent job on the truck and really look forward to your posts.
Alex Blair
Ottawa

Alex van de Wetering · #39 11-09-12, 23:54

Hi Alex,

Thanks for your reply and kind comments...I am really having fun with the restoration so far!

Your explanation of the white blackout blob sounds plausible. My truck came from Canada about ten years ago, and that is probably the first time it left the country. So....it might not have had the diff painted white originally because it was not necessary to drive it in convoy under blackout conditions in Canada at the time. But.....I do want to restore my truck as a truck that would have seen action in the Western Europe, so that's where the question on the diff comes from.

I can't fully agree on your comment of the white diff and light beng a field mod; If you look at Clive's Factory photos CD you will see that a lot of the Chevs left the factory with a white painted diff....cab 13, but also cab 11 and 12. Unfortunately the C8 pictures show the rear lid in open condition, so there it no way of seeing the diff.... Confusing!

Alex

Bob Carriere · #40 12-09-12, 03:24

... the C8 has a relatively low profile...... rear over hang of the cargo box..... 13 inch wheels..... early war model..... is it possible that it NEVER had a convoy light....... purely from a practical perspective.... the rear diff. might not have been very visible EVEN if painted white......

Most CMP with the rear diff light had some from of switch on the frame....C model had what appears to be a hi-beam floor switch mounted on the driver's side rear frame..... is there any evidence of the large hole flacked by two smaller screw/bolt holes on your frame....?

I agree with you that there is enough factory evidence to support the factory installation of the light and white paint on the diff.

I have been following your progress with much interest and fasination...
One comment on the primer allowing rust to bloom right through the primer.... it has been my experience backed up by some reading that "primer" is indeed very porous and will let in oxygen and water..... primer is not meant to seal but only to prepare the surface for greater adhesion of the eventual top coat....

I have found it much better to treat bare recetnly cleaned metal with phosphoric acid..... called metal prep in body shop store..... in a weak solution diluted with water it will create an iron phosphate.... greyish chalky finish on the clean steel..... ideal micro rough texture for the top coat to adhere to. Properly phosphate metal will withstand rust better than just a primer coat. The ideal, whether you use primer of an acid solution, is to seal the surface with a good top coat ASAP........

Some steel once dry and phosphated will last for weeks..... other steel seems to get a surface rust bloom a lot quicker...... maybe the carbon content.

I have had CMP rims that were phosphated and months later the surface rust bloom was like a fine dust and easily rubbed off using a 3M pad..... and painted right over with excellent results.

I have cab 11 sheet metal that has been sadn blastedm degreased and phospated.....stored inside the barn..... been 2 or 3 years now with no rust on them..... and never painted.....

Keep showing us pictures of your progress.....

Bob C.

Alex van de Wetering · #41 12-09-12, 13:58

Bob,

Thanks for your comments. Especially the Hammond thread and Phil's thread are a great help for my project!

Quote:

is there any evidence of the large hole flacked by two smaller screw/bolt holes on your frame....?

Come to think of it.....I think I might have seen one bigger hole and two smaller ones next to it on the rear crossmember.....hmm, will check tonight and post a picture.

Thanks for the comments on the primer. My frame was coated in a zinc phosfate primer, which was far better than the primer I used my self on the axle and smaller bits. I will certainly look into the suggestions you gave and yes....the best way is probably not to wait too long with the final coat after applying primer.....but somehow I just want to have the feeling that I have already stopped the rust before moving to the top coat.

Alex

Alex van de Wetering · #42 12-09-12, 20:06

Could these be the holes for the diff light switch? It's positioned on the rear crossmember just left of the rear body step. I haven't been able to check for possible remains of the light attachment yet.

Alex

hrpearce · #43 12-09-12, 20:48

Alex the hole group Bob was talking about is in the chassis rail near the u bolt in this picture. It was a Hi/Low beam switch mounted there and it directed the power either to the tail lights or convoy light.

Alex van de Wetering · #44 13-09-12, 22:57

Robert,

You are right. It was more matter of wishfull thinking on my behalf. No tell-tale holes in the right rear of the frame......no remains of white paint on the diff or light on one of the crossmembers, so it's pretty save to say that at least my C8 never had a diff light. Thanks for the responces guys! Part of the fun or restoring a CMP!

Alex

Alex van de Wetering · #45 21-09-12, 23:21

I didn't get much done last week, but the front springs have been removed. The rearmost pins attaching the front springs to the chassis were nicely lubricated and in good condition (and could be screwed out by hand.....quite the contrary of the one I had to remove from the separate chassis earlier!). The front pin/bolt and rear lower pin however are very worn as can been seen in the picture. I really wonder if replacing the bushings and pins is enough here....

Also see the difference in my front sprins...the right front springs (bottom one in the pictures) has an extra leaf added and the clips lengtened.
Alex

Bob Carriere · #46 22-09-12, 03:30

HI Alex

Not sure if a spring shop is readily available in your area but I would be tempted to repalce the top two or three leafs with new one....with new bushing and new pins. You are going to have a hard time getting bushing to press into the existing eyelets of the old springs. Besides the top two or three leaves will be carrying the bulk of the weight..... I would be afraid the old ones might snap.

Around here it's about $125.00 per spring pack if you can salvage the shorter leaves and have new one fabricated. The old short leaves can be heated and re-arched.

The spring clips are easily fabricated using flat stock..... tubing for the botls and new bolts.... I made new ones for my spring.... takes a little time but easy enough to do.

Hang in there..... love to follow your progress.

Bob C.

Alex van de Wetering · #47 08-10-12, 17:05

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your comments Bob; there is a spring specialist not too far from me and I will see if they can help out. I also talked about the subject with a few other people which led to some interesting ideas.

Progress on the springs and axles is slow at the moment as I need some parts to be able to rebuild them and because I was waiting for a new primer and paint. So, most of the past two weeks have been spent in the books and on the web to trace part numbers and to look for spares. Dirk and Stefan were able to help me out with a number of them, but I am still looking for some other parts. For instance....I managed to find replacement U-bolts for the rear axle here in Holland, but only the short ones.....I am still looking for the longer ones, which are also used to attach the arms for the shock links (that's why they are about 0.5inch longer). Does anyone know a source or a truck that uses U-bolts with the same measurements?

In the meantime I have started disassembling the nose of the truck in order to prepare the engine removal. What do you know.....I found another spot which was still covered in paint

Next I want to remove the panels next to the radiator....the ones with the holes for the cab vents....I removed a number of nuts and bolts, but somehow they are still attached somewhere. Do I have to remove the fender supports first??? Any of the Alligator cab-crowd who can help out?

Alex

Bob Carriere · #48 10-10-12, 03:53

...some close up.....some of overall view....... then some underneath fenders, etc...... then take a few more....

Hi Alex

Yes you have to remove the fenders and the fender support....one bolt is hidden inside the support........which are bolted to the arches and through the upper sections...... all cheap stove bolts..... grind the heads off or over torque them to snap..... you will replace them all with new cheap bolts.......... finding the proper old style square nuts may be more difficult but we can help you..

Don't be afraid to use a propane torch to free up the rusted nuts if you want to save the caged nuts....... the caged nuts are also availalbe brand new....

You will need some canvass or rubber gasket material when you reassemble.

You will not doubt find some rust holes..... be prepared for some surgery.

.....and keep posting pictures for our enjoyment.

Just starting to reinstall the cab sheet metal on mine...... whole sections near the bolt holes will need to be replaced..... but it is all flat stock but will need to practice the fine art of butt welding to perfection.

On the U bolts most spring shops can make them from scratch in any lenght you need...... and get the proper large HD nuts and thick flat washers.

Let us know how you make out....

Bob C.

cletrac (RIP) · #49 10-10-12, 05:00

My C8s both had the diff covers painted white.

Eduard Sorokin · #50 10-10-12, 08:20

Dear Alex !

Here is very interesting restoration process !
I shall see for further work.

Please, check Your PM box.

Regards,
Armoured.

Alex van de Wetering · #51 03-11-12, 16:11

Thanks for your comments guys,

@Dave I have decided to keep the diff green for the moment as I can always paint it white later on.
@ Bob, thanks for the advise. Indeed I am taking hundreds of pics and that does help to solve most issues about location of bolts and things (and should also help when re-assembling!). So next I will have to remove the fender to reach that last bolt? I did see something what resembled a bolt, but I tought it was rather strange that this bolt is within the upper fender support. Not a clever idea it seems(?)

So the proper re-assembly order would be; assemble grille/rad section to arch bars first...than fender supports...than fenders....and than all panels between front section and windscreen/firewall???

Alex

Alex van de Wetering · #52 03-11-12, 16:23

I get the idea that I am going backwards here....the frame started to show slight corrosion pits through the fresh paint...that black primer I used was really bad! So I decided to sand down some sections of the frame and apply a coat of my new friend....the heavy duty Red-oxide PU primer.

I did the same on the leaf spring blades and applied a coat of Khaki green next. I am waiting for the last few parts, so I can continue with the re-assembly of the springs. I assembled one already, but need to have another look as one of the blades is not positioned properly.

One thing that I wanted to ask you guys about is leaf Spring bushings. I have managed to get NOS spring pins and GM stamped bushings from LWD parts. However I thought the bushing should have a narrow fit to the spring eye and the pins should be moving freely in the bushing (with grease in between). In this case it's the other way round. The bushing "falls" into the spring eye and you have to force the pin into the bushing. Any ideas? Is there an easy way to "spread" the bushing??

Alex

Bob Carriere · #53 04-11-12, 02:08

Hi Alex

The bushings first..... You were lucky to find the pins..... I had mine done from drill rods blanks by a machine shop. The bushings I got form the spring shop that rebuilt my spring packs.

The bushing should be tight enough to require either a press fit or at least some slight tapping...... then once installed the bushings should be reamed a tiny bit to allow the new pins to fit in snug with some grease. If you bushings afalling out have the spring shop heat and reshape the spring eye tighter. If they are installed loose they will pound themselves to a sloppy fit very quickly. Keep in mind that the original pins need the original bolts which are no longer available today.

Now for the re-assembly sequence......

....according to what I have done/observed....... others can comment....

The cast steel nose support go first on the arch bars... rad horse collar that bolts tothe frame front cross member then the rad can be installed. Next the fender support need to be installed so you can reach the hidden bolt.

The top nose section can now be installed over the radiator.

Then the fenders which will fit under the side panels that bolts on each side of the cast steel support bolted to the arches.

The you can proceed to the inner side panel.... the inside panel is the one right over the driver's feet..... I beleive that panel has to be mated with the inner wheel well curved section as they share the same bolts .....

Then...... then...... my mind gets confused and I call Phil Waterman.

In any event it doesn't matter if you get the sequence wrong.... you will no doubt have to take it apart 2 or 3 times before everything fits properly.

And to think we do this for fun !!!!!

Bob C

Bob Carriere · #54 04-11-12, 02:16

My original spring pins were done differently..... the slot cut for the bolts holding them in place was cut with 3 angled flat sides and required special bolts shaped like the 3 sided groove ..... the new ones were made with a circular slot like yours so I could use regular boltss. The machine shop had to heat up the drill rods to remove the temper..... drill the grease passageway....tap for the greae fittings... cut the bolt slot and grind a relief groove in the center for the grease to spread then retemper the whole thing. Hope they last a long time.

Bob

Mike Kelly · #55 04-11-12, 11:41

When I assembled the C8 cab, I discovered that the drivers side arch bar was twisted out of alignment - meaning that the drivers side wing would not sit level so I had to make up a small adjusting mount for the wing . How this twist in the archbar happened is a mystery , it must have been made like that .

You could see where somebody on the production line had beaten the inner fill in panel, to make it fit the arch bar . Being a very early vehicle, I guess the first batch or two were not fitting together as they should have done

Mike Kelly · #56 04-11-12, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

One thing that I wanted to ask you guys about is leaf Spring bushings. I have managed to get NOS spring pins and GM stamped bushings from LWD parts. However I thought the bushing should have a narrow fit to the spring eye and the pins should be moving freely in the bushing (with grease in between). In this case it's the other way round. The bushing "falls" into the spring eye and you have to force the pin into the bushing. Any ideas? Is there an easy way to "spread" the bushing??

Alex,

You could also fix the problem by having some new bushes machined up out of bronze , its a easy job . Just make them larger on the outside diameter and then bore or ream them to the required inside diameter . Mike

Alex van de Wetering · #57 05-11-12, 23:55

Bob, Mike,

Thanks again for your usefull comments. I am expecting some parts from the "Filling Station" soon, including bushings. These have a slightly larger overall diameter than the ones I have now, so fingers crossed. If these are also too small for the springs eyes on my springs, than I will either have the eyes reshaped or have new bushings custom made.
I didn't know the pins were so hard to find; I did see that Phil Waterman had new ones made!

In the meantime the frame is back in Khaki Green again.
I also picked up two shocks recently (the satin black ones in the pics), which were supposedly rebuilt and than left on the shelf. The action of the arms is certainly better than on the original shocks. Type is slightly different; first five numbers are the same but the number after the dash is different....I presume the difference is within the arms.....my original C8 ones are straight, while the "new" ones have a curve in the arm. I wil probably try and swap the arms.

Alex

p.s. I am convinced that paint suppiers pack some insects in every can of paint.....no bug anywhere, until you have just spraypainted something....

Bob Carriere · #58 06-11-12, 02:34

Hi Alex

At the time I needed the pins I could not find them anywhere....once I paid darn good money to have them made I found Dirk had them cheaper.....

Thsoe shock absorbers were used on a variety of model from early Dodge 4x4 to Chev 2x and 4x4...... the part number may be tied to the specific application....axle design...frame offset ...length of the arm for travel....but I suspect the guts are probably all the same.

Carefull trying to remove the arms...... as many times as I have tried I have not been able to remove one safely..... with lots of heat it can be done BUT you will destroy the oil seal around the shaft of the arm.

Just make sure they travel well and that they are filled up with hydraulic oil.

I also suspect that with the number of spring leaves, rust residue, friction between spring leaves, etc....... with or with out shock absorbers ....the ride is not altered or improved by much. Up until the mid fifties Dodge Power wagon 4x4 pickup trucks did not have rear shocks.... they were optional.

Good luck with the bushings.....

Bob

Alex van de Wetering · #59 09-11-12, 20:30

Bob,

I haven't tried yet, but I thought removing the arms might be the "easy" part with a puller and maybe a little heat.....I was thinking re-assembling the arms would be the real challenge....I mean, a press could do the job, but if you use the press against the shock housing wouldn't that result in problems???

I guess I just have to try!

Alex

cletrac (RIP) · #60 09-11-12, 21:20

On our farm machinery we use a hydraulic puller. It has way more power than a wrench operated one.