Need help: M151a2 CAF Europe 74-22375

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

I also saw him scarf down a hamburger at TGIFriday's, so that may be an option as well, although Dairy Queen certainly has more Canadian content.

Bet he's happy Stanley McChrystal is gone

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

ok, i wanted to inform you that i ordered a Ziebart label from Perini, i will receive it next week and then i will send it to you.

Wow. I'm not about to pass that up. I'm surprised they would have something still after all of these years.

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

Wow. I'm not about to pass that up. I'm surprised they would have something still after all of these years.

It is a pleasure, and you already gave me many informations about my M151 . Anyway remind that the CDN forces sold the M151 in Europe when the Berlin wall went down, so maybe the CDN forces crushed more M151 there than here. These old internet pics are from some storages.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

Bet he's happy Stanley McChrystal is gone

Geeez: a guyz gotta eat. My boss eats at the DFAC everyday and he got sick all last night and today from eating the fish. TGIFs has not done that to me once yet. In fact, I had the sizzlin chicken fahjitas last night and grabbed a strawberry shake on the way home.

Tsk tsk Ed: where is your op-sec. What goes on in KAF stays in KAF.

I should be home in about a month so I'll see what I have left for plates, drums and decals for both Scotty and for Gaspare, who emailed me on the subject.

Interesting photos on the demilling process. I took apart 30 here in Canada which was a fair pile. Must be hundreds on hundreds in those photos, although I note some are American Forces.

[Scott Bentley]

Well I managed to get on EDR, albeit the stripped down version. I still need to get my workstation upgraded so I can get access to the better version.

Heres what I did find:

Your M151A2 Serial Number 46619 (taken from your picture of the Dash Dataplate) is actually CFR 74-22452. It was demilled at CFB Lahr on 31 March 1987.

CFR 74-22375 would have been Serial Number 46207. That one was also demilled at CFB Lahr in the same timeframe.

I scrolled through a bunch of the M151A2 data from that patch of CFRs. Seems all the CFE MUTTs were demilled in Lahr. Without the better version of the program, I can't actually see what Units that the Jeeps actually served with in CFE, but rather where they were scrapped.

Once I get the update done, i'll dig up the Unit info.

Scotty

[Gaspare]

So now i understand what Perini told me about id plates being exchanged between the cars by the military maintenance....
He meant:
when he rewelded the cars,
he
made some mess with the id plates.....
I hope to find something definitive about mine....

[Gaspare]

Hallo Scotty,

Perini sent the wrong label.

I called him and he promised fix the mistake so i should have to receive the Ziebart label in a few days.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

Hallo Scotty,

Perini sent the wrong label.

I called him and he promised fix the mistake so i should have to receive the Ziebart label in a few days.

I will gladly purchase that Dataplate from you also.

Scotty

[Casey B]

Hi Scotty not sure if I posted it correctly but on one of your other threads re histories M38A1's I am the very last post there...I think? Hope it shows up and that you may have a chance to see it... Thanks in advance Casey

[Gaspare]

Hallo scotty,
Perini said me that he is looking for the Ziebart tag,
but due that it is a never asked item he need time to find one.
I hope to receive it soon.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

Hallo scotty,
Perini said me that he is looking for the Ziebart tag,
but due that it is a never asked item he need time to find one.
I hope to receive it soon.

Understood. No worries here. I will gladly buy that Dataplate you posted the picture of as well. I need one of those also.

Scotty

[Gaspare]

they will be yours

[spinnerhawken]

If there are any extra data plates please also consider me in. It looks good. Cheers. steve

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by spinnerhawken

If there are any extra data plates please also consider me in. It looks good. Cheers. steve

Beat it Hawken. Go find your own plates

I expected you and Eric to pop up sooner or later trying to snag it

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by rob love

Interesting photos on the demilling process. I took apart 30 here in Canada which was a fair pile. Must be hundreds on hundreds in those photos, although I note some are American Forces.

Yes they are suppose to be the Canadian M151a2 scrapped in Europe, Perini says that he purchased al them and maybe some more from i don't know where..... the enclosure (hard top) i purchased from him came from almost 3 USArmy units.

[Marc Montgomery]

de-milled in Lahr in 87? damn...I was there (the year I left)..why didnt i hear about this?
(unless it was later in the year after I left)
frick a frack argha dawg a razz a fraz

[Gaspare]

Hallo Marc,
you left in 1987
but when did you arrive there?

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

Well I managed to get on EDR, albeit the stripped down version. I still need to get my workstation upgraded so I can get access to the better version.

Heres what I did find:

Your M151A2 Serial Number 46619 (taken from your picture of the Dash Dataplate) is actually CFR 74-22452. It was demilled at CFB Lahr on 31 March 1987.

CFR 74-22375 would have been Serial Number 46207. That one was also demilled at CFB Lahr in the same timeframe.

I scrolled through a bunch of the M151A2 data from that patch of CFRs. Seems all the CFE MUTTs were demilled in Lahr. Without the better version of the program, I can't actually see what Units that the Jeeps actually served with in CFE, but rather where they were scrapped.

Once I get the update done, i'll dig up the Unit info.

Scotty

Heres the other info from the better database. In essence, it looks like you're A2 spent its entire life in Germany. It was disposed with approx 67000 miles (or Kms depending on wether or not someone converted the odometer reading). Details on the modifications can be found in the CFR request thread.

Holding Unit History

CFR No Departure Arrival HUIC Unit
22452* 24-Apr-86 29-Jun-84 1850* 2 PPCLI
22452* 29-Jun-84 01-Jan-74 1576* 3BN THE ROYAL CANADIAN REGIMENT

Modification History

Modification History of CFR : 22452

Modification No Modification Complete Date Completed
30010000CF003* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION NO
30105000CF001* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF003* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF004* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF005* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF006* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF007* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF008* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF012* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF013* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF016* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF017* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES

Work Order Details
CFR Number : 22452

Format Work Order Number SS Date Completed CIN HUIC Usage Qty Parts ($) Rebuild
6 L52004 29-May-85 956* 1850* 66717 1 441 NO
6 L51004 13-Mar-85 956* 1850* 65774 1 84 NO
6 L41004 18-Jan-84 956* 1576* 59436 1 172 NO
6 L34004 06-Dec-83 956* 1576* 59308 1 674 NO
6 L33004 23-Sep-83 956* 1576* 56861 1 25 NO
6 L21198 08-Jun-82 956* 1576* 50556 4 334 NO
6 L21004 26-Mar-82 956* 1576* 47352 1 217 NO
6 L14004 23-Nov-81 956* 1576* 45131 3 188 NO
6 L13004 03-Sep-81 956* 1576* 44115 1 26 NO
6 L12004 31-May-81 956* 1576* 42131 3 206 NO
6 L11004 17-Mar-81 956* 1576* 38639 1 13 NO
6 L04004 17-Nov-80 956* 1576* 38449 1 50 NO
6 L00665 07-Dec-79 956* 1576* 30256 1 49 NO
5 LW0429 31-Mar-78 986* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
6 L00901 31-Dec-77 956* 1576* 14565 1 5 NO
6 L00902 30-Nov-77 956* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
6 L00641 14-Sep-77 956* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
6 L00033 21-Feb-77 956* 2208* 0 1 0 NO

[Scott Bentley]

For the back half, also a lifelong Germany A2. Slightly less mileage with approx 60000 on the clock. For what its worth, its not completely unusal to have mis-matched halves. There are plenty of others floating around here in Canada. If the Gas Tank and seats still fit and line up then its safe to say that the original geometry has been retained.

Holding Unit History

CFR No Departure Arrival HUIC Unit
22375* 25-Jun-86 01-Jan-74 2108* 4 SERVICE BATTALION

Modification History

Modification History of CFR : 22375

Modification No Modification Complete Date Completed
30010000CF003* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF001* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF003* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF004* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF005* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF006* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF007* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF008* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF012* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF013* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF016* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES
30105000CF017* NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THIS MODIFICATION YES

Work Order Details
CFR Number : 22375
Format Work Order Number SS Date Completed CIN HUIC Usage Qty Parts ($) Rebuild
6 LA3820 13-Nov-84 990* 2108* 60280 1 182 NO
6 LA3496 14-May-84 990* 2108* 57293 1 220 NO
6 L07280 30-Jun-83 990* 2108* 49848 1 20 NO
6 L 1135 23-Sep-81 990* 2108* 42369 1 28 NO
6 LA6404 30-Nov-79 990* 2108* 27206 1 5 NO
6 LA1804 12-Mar-79 990* 2108* 22338 1 82 NO
6 L01418 30-Sep-78 990* 2108* 20585 1 0 NO
6 L01218 30-Jun-78 990* 2108* 17283 1 0 NO
5 LV0415 14-Jan-78 986* 2208* 0 1 0 NO
6 L01271 30-Sep-77 990* 2108* 9211 1 196 NO

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

For the back half, also a lifelong Germany A2. Slightly less mileage with approx 60000 on the clock. For what its worth, its not completely unusal to have mis-matched halves. There are plenty of others floating around here in Canada.

The ones ending up in Italy are notorius for being mismatched. A1 fronts mated to A2 back halves etc. I'd say it's a miracle two Canadian halves were mated

H.

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

For the back half, also a lifelong Germany A2. Slightly less mileage with approx 60000 on the clock. For what its worth, its not completely unusal to have mis-matched halves. There are plenty of others floating around here in Canada. If the Gas Tank and seats still fit and line up then its safe to say that the original geometry has been retained.

Hallo Mark,
Many more thanks for all these informations but how to read all those numbers?

Iam still stressing Perini for the Ziebart tag, he said that he still has some "somewhere in the storage" and to call him again the next week (3rd time he said me so)
and as i said as soon i will receive it i will send it to you together with the other tag.
In the while i wait for it, would you @mail me a shipping address?

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

Hallo Mark,
Many more thanks for all these informations but how to read all those numbers?

Iam still stressing Perini for the Ziebart tag, he said that he still has some "somewhere in the storage" and to call him again the next week (3rd time he said me so)
and as i said as soon i will receive it i will send it to you together with the other tag.
In the while i wait for it, would you @mail me a shipping address?

If I recall correctly, on the first page of the "CFR Request Thread", most of the above codes are explained.

I'll PM you my shipping info. I hope you will give me a Paypal Address to compensate you for this.

Thanks

Scotty

[Gaspare]

Hallo Scotty,
I received the Ziebart tag today and i will send it together with the other one to you on monday, unfortunately it miss the down right corner but Perini said me that it is the only one he has been able to find.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

Hallo Scotty,
I received the Ziebart tag today and i will send it together with the other one to you on monday, unfortunately it miss the down right corner but Perini said me that it is the only one he has been able to find.

That's fantastic! No worries about the corner.
Thanks for this.

[Gaspare]

I mailed them this morning and i have almost completed the paint job on my M151.
One question: did the CAF ever used the rigid enclosure on these cars?

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

I mailed them this morning and i have almost completed the paint job on my M151.
One question: did the CAF ever used the rigid enclosure on these cars?

To the best of my knowledge, the Hardtop and Arctic Heater Kit was not used by the Canadian Forces.

From what i've read on the US Forums, the Hardtop makes the M151A2 much more top heavy (rollover potential) and painfully loud.

Post up some pics of your paint work.

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Gaspare:

Welcome aboard! The sticker is something from the Air Force, but the name and numbers are not necessarily correct. My brother was an airforce technician on CF18 fighters when they were new, and they called themselves Hornet Handlers. I don't know what ground vehicles the Air Force had, or even if they had Standard Military Pattern field vehicles.

What serial numbers are on the data plates?

i am sure that the numbers on my M151 are correct (i found them in one more place in the car and it is a non repainted area, pics on forum will follow soon), does your brother recall if they used some M151?
Would any pics of them be available ?
Thank you for reanswering me,
Gaspare.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

i am sure that the numbers on my M151 are correct (i found them in one more place in the car and it is a non repainted area, pics on forum will follow soon), does your brother recall if they used some M151?
Would any pics of them be available ?
Thank you for reanswering me,
Gaspare.

From my brother:

Sorry, but I do not remember any CF-18 squadrons operating M151 jeeps. Air types tended to drive civilian pattern Ford (of West Germany) sedans or mini-vans. Aircraft-specific support vehicles (tugs, tankers, etc.) tended to be from obscure North American manufacturers.

My second posting to West Germany was shortly after the Canadian Army bought a boat-load of Iltis .. to replace their old M38s and M151 jeeps.
A Hornet Handler "zapper" sticker means almost nothing. At best, it proves that a Hornet Handler visited the home base of that M151. Travelling air-types had a habit of "zaping" equipment belong to other squadrons. In extreme cases, Hornet Handlers would hold (other) squadron mascots hostage. The ransom was usually something as embarrassing as wearing a hockey jersey.

Does that answer your question?

> When you were fixing 18s in Germany, did any of the sqns have M151 jeeps? A collector in Italy has an ex-CF M151 with a Hornet Handler "zapper" sticker.

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

From my brother:

Sorry, but I do not remember any CF-18 squadrons operating M151 jeeps. Air types tended to drive civilian pattern Ford (of West Germany) sedans or mini-vans. Aircraft-specific support vehicles (tugs, tankers, etc.) tended to be from obscure North American manufacturers.

My second posting to West Germany was shortly after the Canadian Army bought a boat-load of Iltis .. to replace their old M38s and M151 jeeps.
A Hornet Handler "zapper" sticker means almost nothing. At best, it proves that a Hornet Handler visited the home base of that M151. Travelling air-types had a habit of "zaping" equipment belong to other squadrons. In extreme cases, Hornet Handlers would hold (other) squadron mascots hostage. The ransom was usually something as embarrassing as wearing a hockey jersey.

Does that answer your question?

> When you were fixing 18s in Germany, did any of the sqns have M151 jeeps? A collector in Italy has an ex-CF M151 with a Hornet Handler "zapper" sticker.

Thank you Terry and thanks a lot to your brother too, Scot made research about my m151 and found the story of the 74-22375 which was belonging to other units, so it make sense to the sticker, but still not to the stencil painted CAF HORNET on the front bumper and inside the engine hood, unless they had time to zap them too.

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by armybuck041

To the best of my knowledge, the Hardtop and Arctic Heater Kit was not used by the Canadian Forces.

From what i've read on the US Forums, the Hardtop makes the M151A2 much more top heavy (rollover potential) and painfully loud.

Post up some pics of your paint work.

Hallo Scotty,
thank you for the reply,
for the true some years ago i already installed the alluminium enclosure (in a detachable way) and i have to say that is not that heavy, the whole stuff with the doors is not much heavier than the ROPS set.
I make personally the change in spring and autumn, true anyway the care to be used in the steep turns (also with the ROPS), a price to pay for the winter comfort even the loudness is not that bad.
Here are some pics, i found one more stencil painted 74-22375 behind the civil registration label.
I also made some color matching test with a Federal Standard Color FS595A.
I hope that this will be helpful for reference in re-creating the colors.
Please look at the numbers and not at the colors in the pics, the light changed them pretty much.
It seems that my M151 was painted as base color with the 34258, it shows up in the clutch and brake pedals, on the bumpers where the 74-22375 was painted, on the seat belts attachments and almost everywhere i had to sand deep, also the wooden box which was placed as bench seat in the back of the car shows the same color (i will post the box pic as son as possible).
it looks really like the British Challenger tank faded green color.