GM Otter light recce car

[Neil Ashley]

James

The differences may be due to at what stage in the contracts the vehicles were built.

For example, most sources will tell you that spare tyres were only fitted to British AFV's after the supply of rubber became a problem, and the use of run flat tyes was discontinued.

Do you know if your vehicle is an early or late example.

[James Gosling]

Neil

From looking at other photos I would reckon on it being an earlier model. It has the same stripped appearance as the early models used in Italy. The vehicles used by the engineers in France are definately better finished.

Another diference is the casting of the turret ring. Mine is smoothly cast whereas others i've seen are rough cast. The early model doesn't have an armour ring around the base of the turret whereas the later models seem to.

James

[Larry Hayward]

The photo has to show an Otter in Italy as it has traces of the red & white recognition marking on the front and the RAF style roundal on the upper front of the hull. Also the terrain looks like Italy and nothing like Northern France. Having seen a few photos of British Army Otters in Italy 1943-45 I would guess that this is from a Canadian Army unit.

Out of interest in the enlarged photo it looks like there is a chalk swastika below the smoke discharger !

Larry Hayward

MVT Member

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another turretless Otter, courtesy of Jordan Baker:

Late War Otter in Holland. No turret with a machine gun mounted up top. A huge pile of stowage. Interestingly it appears to be riding on 1050x16 tires.

3BC47A66-EE62-4C21-8046-97364300D1A1.jpeg

[Alex van de Wetering]

Another turretless Otter, courtesy of Jordan Baker:

I had the same picture lined up for publication on MLU. it's a picture taken in "t Zandt", Netherlands 1945. source: https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/

Attached is another turretless Otter. Picture taken in Vierakker, Netherlands 1945. source:https://www.geldersarchief.nl/

Alex

[James Gosling]

Hi Larry , this Otter was definately in Italy and the marking under the smoke discharger is a cross. This was painted on vehicles to represent the enemy in excercises.However this is mostly seen on vehicles used on Pre-invasion excercises in the UK before D-Day.Maybe this was general practice at the time in all theatres?
James

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Larry just found another photo of a turretless Otter - see GM Otter with the RAF Regt in India / Burma in WW2.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by James Gosling
The turretless Otter in the photo in Holland appears to be the same one as in the picture I've attached. It is being used as an artillery FOO vehicle from the insignia on the uniforms.

Found some new info about this photo:

"Privates W.G. Skidstrup and A.A. Annala working on a scout car of the 1st Canadian Infantry Division near Apeldoorn, Netherlands, 19 April 1945

Credit: Lieut. Christopher J. Woods / Canada. Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-116322"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

"Privates W.G. Skidstrup and A.A. Annala working on a scout car of the 1st Canadian Infantry Division near Apeldoorn, Netherlands, 19 April 1945

Then and now!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by James Gosling
Sadly the Otter in the picture, covered in brambles is not for sale.I spoke with the owner in June and he is adamant that he won't sell it or a second one he has hiding nearby. Both have been completely gutted inside, with every major component removed. The other one has had the turret removed and the roof of the hull is split open like a banana. they do however have some interesting fittings on the outside still remaining, which I hope to go back and photograph (when I was there the owner would not let me photograph anything).

Seems the Otter in the brambles is the same as shown in the pic below. This picture was taken at the Museum Musée Août 44, Falaise (France).

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Seems the Otter in the brambles is the same as shown in the pic below. This picture was taken at the Museum Musée Août 44, Falaise (France).

I knew that photo and museum name were familiar. The museum closed and the collection was auctioned earlier this year. Hanno posted a thread on it.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...661#post178661

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another turretless? one in Italy

Caption: Chevrolet Otter crossing a Bailey bridge over the Volturno river at Grazzanise in October 1943

otter.jpg
Source: http://panzerserra.blogspot.de/2013/...reda-20mm.html

[Alan McGuinness]

Otters appear briefly in these Pathe films:

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/crossing-the-volturno
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/it...ops-and-people
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/te...n-in-palestine

[lssah2025]

Ok, another question, the Otter book calls for 9.00x16's, would 10.50x16's be too big for the rims? Also would US NDT's be appropriate to use, or should they be UK bar grip/track grip?

This picture the tyres definitely look bigger than 9.00's

[James Gosling]

I Saw Monsieur Leloup last Summer and he allowed me into the compound to view the Otters. Both are missing engines and gearboxes and the interiors have been stripped out. The far one has sustained some very serious battle damage, the whole roof is blown in and along the armour by the driver a large strip of armour has been pealed back where it was hit.
Whilst there he also showed me his Panther and the trailer to go with the newly restored Famo half track.

Here's the other damage!

[Nick Coaker]

James, Hanno,
I too have been to see those Otters. Well, not specifically, but when you see two you have to take photographs. I'll stick one on that I'm quite chuffed with, its what is left of the front of to one of them. I did film it, but I can't get that off the camcorder, so it ain't going on here!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

At first glance this looks like a turretless Otter but I think it has a tarp or similar over it?

Picture taken during the liberation of Ommen, The Netherlands.

Source: http://www.oudommen.nl/bevrijding-van-ommen/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

See http://www.aiolfipartners.com/ for an upcoming auction of part of the collection of the Musée août 1944 ("Museum August 1944") at Falaise, now permanently closed. As I understand it, part of the Leloup collection will be displayed in a new museum, the remainder is being auctioned off.

Included in the auction are two Otter wrecks, an unrestored Bedford OY, a Canadian Dodge 1.5-ton truck, and a Ford F60S LAAT(?)

We know the turretless Otter in the background of the photo above was bought by a MLU member, but where did the turreted one go?

I thought it went to the MM Park France museum, but comparing pictures (below, courtesy of Pierre Olivier), this isn't the same one.

So, where did Mr. Leloup's second Otter go?

18208954_10155349331234571_8175657601702542717_o.jpg

[lssah2025]

We know the turretless Otter in the background of the photo above was bought by a MLU member, and hopefully restoration started within the next year... maybe they got it for parts or for a project...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by lssah2025

We know the turretless Otter in the background of the photo above was bought by a MLU member, and now will be owned by another MLU member and hopefully restoration started within the next year...

Would that be you? Please keep us posted!

Will you go the "battle damage repair" route when restoring?

[lssah2025]

After some research the 2nd Otter (turreted one) did goto MM Park, La Wantzenau (France), it is currently in their garage.

[lssah2025]

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...057#post247057

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another turretless Otter, used as a pack mule:

4A6D0DB0-AF6E-4617-A57A-D4AEEDF0522F.jpeg

Men of the 5th Battalion, The Northamptonshire Regiment, in the town of Portomaggiore, Italy, April 1945
Photograph, World War Two, Italy (1943-1945), 1945.

The 5th Battalion was part of the 11th Infantry Brigade and served throughout the campaigns in Sicily and Italy, ending the war with crossing the Italian border into Austria. Portomaggiore is located near Ferrara in Emilia-Romagna.

From a collection of British official war photographs relating to the 78th Division.

NAM Accession Number
NAM. 1999-03-88-126

Copyright/Ownership
National Army Museum, Out of Copyright

Location
National Army Museum, Study collection

Object URL
https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail....1999-03-88-126

[Hanno Spoelstra]

"1st Canadian inf div, Heemraadssingel, Rotterdam, May 1945"

184218605_10222682924415379_6665535334173078777_n.jpg

Source: Rotterdam City Archives - https://hdl.handle.net/21.12133/3184...6607AD104A58DF

[Larry Hayward]

Great colour photo! I wonder what colour the vehicle is in as it looks to be slightly glossy?

According to my references it should be SCC. 15 and at this late stage no need for any black disruptive camo.

[m606paz]

Factory pics

[m606paz]

more factory pics

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another turretless Otter

British Otter Light Reconnaissance Car (LRC) crossing a Bailey bridge over the Volturno River at Graz anise Italy - October 14-16, 1943
IWM - Mott Photographer
IWM NA 7854

IMG_7336.jpeg

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Turretless Otter LRC and Humber Scout photographed at the village of Vierakker, The Netherlands, sometime during 1945.

473338577_2344012269269301_6353441398194446315_n.jpg