MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Carrier Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 22-07-05, 12:53
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,853
Default Re: Scout/Bren Carrier

Quote:
Originally posted by Lynn Eades
The very first pic you posted is a Scout (Have any survived)
Could this be one?

Source: Bren Carriers of the British Expeditionary Force recovered
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 22-07-05, 13:05
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,853
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by herkman
Am I correct in thinking that LVT were not used very much in Australia.
Col, according to http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Research/Austanks.htm there were at least three dozen in use, well into the 1950s if I recall correctly.

Personally I think Australia had many more as they were used commercially after the Army stopped using them - see http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/lsm/dhmg/buffalos.html

Could you share a pic of Harold's wading tank?

H.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 22-07-05, 14:08
Bruce Parker (RIP) Bruce Parker (RIP) is offline
GM Fox I
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,606
Default Aerial Mount

Lynn, the mount was originally for a Wireless Set No.11; British, and later Canadian, made. The set is roughly the size of a 19 set which soon replaced it (I will post a picture when I find it). The aerial mount of the type shown had a large porcelin base attached to a ring with 'teeth' to set it in any direction. The aerial sections, ("C sections", I think) as you indicate, are 7/8" diameter by 4 feet long, two of which make an 8 foot aerial. On Mk.1 Universal carriers, this aerial could be upright, or folded forward along the armour to catch on the u-shaped bracket just aft of the division plate. A spring below the base attached to a bracket on the side kept tension. Often, a large rubber condom-like insulator covered the whole aerial base with only the rods sticking out the top. With the replacement of the 11 set by 19 sets, the 11 set aerial base was replaced with a standard 19 set rubber base (No.8 for Canadians, No.10 for the British). I have made drawings of the folding aerial base I can send you, and have one original 11 set base if you need details.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 23-07-05, 12:38
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,541
Default Bren & Aeriel

Thanks Bruce and Hanno.
Firstly Bruce, I have all of the aerial mount, just looking for the aeriel its self. It must be pretty rigid because it would take a fair load to overcome that spring and let the mount tip over on the bronze teeth, as its designed to do. Of note is that my one is not porcelain, rather bakelite. Quite a pretty and clever design when cost is not a consideration. once again, thanks!
And Hanno, Great to see. Shame about the condition. You might be interested to note a couple of things about the construction of the brens. Firstly the air ducts that bolt to the back of the hull division plate(on either side of the engine cover, are a different shape to the universals. if you look at the pic Hanno posted you will be able to see how they curve from the outside to the bottom. The universal ones are formed from two straight lines.
The next thing that stands out in the construction is the floor pans. Universals have a basically flat floor, that is fixed to the front ,sides, and rear, by means of being riveted firstly to sections of angle iron, which in turn are riveted to the hull sides, front, and rear. The Bren floors had "returns" bent up on them, and so, the floors were riveted directly to the sides, front, and rear plates. This would make identifying one with the armour cut off easy to pick. (there are other differences)
SO......Anyone got a spare aeriel??????
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 23-07-05, 18:48
Col Tigwell Col Tigwell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Snug Tasmania
Posts: 382
Default

Thank you Hanno for your as usual, your very informed reply.

I used to live in Sydney which is on the East Coast, but in retirement moved to the West Coast which is about 3000 Kms away.

The LVT is in a award part of Harolds yard, and has proven difficult to photograph. On one side it is completely shielded by a shed. On the front it is shielded by a Matilda tank, which is a goer.

The other side is only about three meters from a building.

However from the rear you can get a clear shot.

I suspect except for the rusty T16. Keith's photo could of the same vehicle, and perhaps it is the same unit, except they have found a T16, since I was last there.

Keith where is your photo taken, if it is at Narrellan, and if that is so, do you have any more photos to share.

Harold the owner used to call it a wading tank, I suspect that was because he did not know any better. The photos on the internet, appear to my untrained eye, to be the same as what Harold has.

Has anyone from Australia been to Harold's, and can clarify what he has.

Thanks

Col Tigwell
__________________
Vietnam Vet and proud of it.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 23-07-05, 20:53
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
Film maker, CMP addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HIGHTON VIC
Posts: 8,218
Default Yard

Hi Col

No, the pic with the T16 was taken at the Melbourne Tank Museum, owned by John Belfield who has (I think) 4 of them.
I do have some more pics of them archived if you're interested.
__________________
Film maker

42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 23-07-05, 20:57
Col Tigwell Col Tigwell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Snug Tasmania
Posts: 382
Default

Thanks for the information.

I did not think it was the one at Narrellan.

If you ever get up that way, you will find the boys intereted and interesting.

Regards

Col
__________________
Vietnam Vet and proud of it.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 23-07-05, 21:41
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
former OC MLU, AKA 'Jif' - sadly no longer with us
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,400
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by herkman
Thank you Hanno for your as usual, your very informed reply.
Col, you might as well get used to it... Hanno is a walking, talking encyclopedia of everything to do with this business and especially of everything that's gone on in MLU the last seven years. He scares ME, and that takes some doing (mind you, he's a big bastard too)...
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS
:remember :support
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 23-07-05, 21:43
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
former OC MLU, AKA 'Jif' - sadly no longer with us
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,400
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by herkman
If you ever get up that way, you will find the boys intereted
Sounds faintly obscene, old man... does it have anything to do with sheep?
__________________
SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS
:remember :support
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 23-07-05, 22:57
cliff's Avatar
cliff cliff is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gympie, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 3,108
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Sounds faintly obscene, old man... does it have anything to do with sheep?
Hmmm I think you are thinking of the wrong country. It is New Zealand that has the sheep

Last edited by cliff; 11-01-07 at 12:44.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 24-07-05, 00:55
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
Film maker, CMP addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HIGHTON VIC
Posts: 8,218
Default New Zealand?

Quote:
Originally posted by cliff
Hmmm I think you are thinking of the wrong country. It is New Zealand that has the sheep
Aren't you a refugee from "Na Zillun" Cliff? Or should that be "Cluff"? (spoken with that delightful Kiwi ick-sunt, or burr.)

Why is it we Aussies are the only ones without an accent?
__________________
Film maker

42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 24-07-05, 01:02
alleramilitaria's Avatar
alleramilitaria alleramilitaria is offline
Dave Demorrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: texas USA
Posts: 1,133
Default

Why is it we Aussies are the only ones without an accent?

keith,
as someone blessed without a accent and married to someone from coffs harbour i can assure you that not only do you have a accent but you are great fun to listen too.

i have to watch the crock hunter and Mclauds doughters to understand y'all.



dave
__________________
44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw
44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR
41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C
42 6LB GUN
and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 24-07-05, 01:07
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
Film maker, CMP addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HIGHTON VIC
Posts: 8,218
Default Is.... that.... why....

Those heartless Canucks would laugh at me almost every time I opened my mouth?
(no, they're laughing AT you not WITH you)
And I thought I had a great sense of humour too.

They even think I'm saying Jif when really I'm saying Geoff.
__________________
Film maker

42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 24-07-05, 01:14
alleramilitaria's Avatar
alleramilitaria alleramilitaria is offline
Dave Demorrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: texas USA
Posts: 1,133
Default

hey i can do a canuck accent to, ay

i can listen to anything as long as it does not have that evil vegi stuff in it.

by the way im planning to build a scout carrier here within the year.

that way i will be well on the way with the entire set
__________________
44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw
44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR
41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C
42 6LB GUN
and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 24-07-05, 01:50
cliff's Avatar
cliff cliff is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gympie, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 3,108
Default Re: New Zealand?

Quote:
Originally posted by Keith Webb
Aren't you a refugee from "Na Zillun" Cliff? Or should that be "Cluff"? (spoken with that delightful Kiwi ick-sunt, or burr.)

Why is it we Aussies are the only ones without an accent?
LOL yes Aussies have an accent and like the North and South in the USA it can be different between states as well.

I also do get caught out occassionly as a Kiwi but only on certain words now.

The difficulty I have is in the way you say some place names here. Like Hervy bay is pronounced Harvy so how the hell do you get HA out of HE? LOL.

Mind you I also got a bit of paper from the govt here that says I am an Aussie but then again we all know how truthfull most polititions are as well don't we? :

Last edited by cliff; 11-01-07 at 12:45.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 24-07-05, 02:31
Col Tigwell Col Tigwell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Snug Tasmania
Posts: 382
Default

Harold Thomas from Narrellan, who unfortunately suffers from Parkinsons , from a technical point of view, has to be one of the best technical minds I have ever met.

He did his training with Kingfords Smiths airline, but has a great interest in tanks and older motor trucks. His son who is in his fifties likewise has inherited his fathers talents. They have about six military vehicles including a White half track, which they imported from Europe.

Nice guys who when they discover who you are, will show you all.

Regards

Col
__________________
Vietnam Vet and proud of it.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 26-07-05, 04:34
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,853
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by herkman
Harold the owner used to call it a wading tank, I suspect that was because he did not know any better. The photos on the internet, appear to my untrained eye, to be the same as what Harold has.
Col, I guess one could call the LVT4 a wading tank. It really is a barge like vehicle with tracks to propel it on land and in the water. Attached goes a period pic showing how a LVT4 could take on loads like a Jeep.
Attached Thumbnails
pic65898.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 26-07-05, 04:37
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,853
Default Re: Yard

Quote:
Originally posted by Keith Webb
No, the pic with the T16 was taken at the Melbourne Tank Museum, owned by John Belfield who has (I think) 4 of them.
Four LVT4's you mean, eh? Surely not four T16's?!?

Quote:
Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Col, you might as well get used to it... Hanno is a walking, talking encyclopedia of everything to do with this business and especially of everything that's gone on in MLU the last seven years. He scares ME, and that takes some doing (mind you, he's a big bastard too)...
Ok, ok, I'll get a life!! :

H.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 26-07-05, 04:42
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
Film maker, CMP addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HIGHTON VIC
Posts: 8,218
Default Four

Yes, that was the LVT, not the T16!
__________________
Film maker

42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-01-07, 00:22
Adamicz's Avatar
Adamicz Adamicz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 7
Default

Anybody know what are the differences between "Carrier, Bren, No.2, Mk.I" and "Mk.II"? Not Universal Carriers Mk.I and Mk.II, I just want these two early types.

And second question... how many of them were produced? (Again, I mean only early types Mk.I and Mk.II), thx
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 11-01-07, 02:16
Ryan's Avatar
Ryan Ryan is offline
Blitzed
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Golden Plains, Victoria, Oz
Posts: 2,208
Default Difference between Mk.1 amd Mk.2?

Please correct me anybody if I'm wrong.
Was it that the Mk.1 was fitted for the Vickers M/G and the Mk.2 was fitted for the Bren gun?
Hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11-01-07, 06:42
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,541
Default

Hi I do not have access to my books but here goes with an opinion which may stand to be corrected.
I dont know that there was a "Carrier Bren No2 Mk2.
I believe the "Bren carrier was obsolete once the Mk1 Universal was in production.
The Mk2 universals are easily identified by the side mounted steps, which the Mk1's dont have.
The "No2" relates to the H.P. of the motor (85) The No1, and No3 being 65 and 95 horse power.
I do not remember the nomenclature of the Machine gun carrier with the Vickers and the flat, sloping front guards, that preceeded the Carrier Bren No2 Mk1.
Hope that helps, and if I have it wrong, please let me know. I'd rather not live under the mis-apprehension.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11-01-07, 12:39
Adamicz's Avatar
Adamicz Adamicz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 7
Default Re: Difference between Mk.1 amd Mk.2?

Quote:
Originally posted by rynoki
Please correct me anybody if I'm wrong.
Was it that the Mk.1 was fitted for the Vickers M/G and the Mk.2 was fitted for the Bren gun?
Hope this helps.
I think that rearmament from Vickers MG's to Bren guns was implemented already on MG Carriers No.1 Mk.I

And talking about Mk.II, it probably didn't exist, I've just seen this marking on some sites without any closer specification. I just wanted to be sure
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 16-01-07, 18:46
Adamicz's Avatar
Adamicz Adamicz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 7
Default

Ok here's my second question. Now when reading some info about Universal Carriers, I'm confused about their official marking.

I suppose first versions were "Carrier, Universal, No.1 Mk.I" But then? Don't know if Mk.II's existed only in 85hp engine version (No.2) or if also No.I Mk.II was produced... and so on... could anybody help? Thx
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 17-01-07, 03:14
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,541
Default Adamicz

Sorry. All my info is drawn from memory, because all my books are buried in a shipping container.
So the best advice I can give is for you to locate a book called "The British Carrier story" It's probably the most reliable book out there on the subject, because there is a lot of wrong info out there in print about carriers.
I cannot remember the two authors, but the book is well known by some on this forum, and it may be that someone may even scan the appropriate pages and post them here for us both.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 04-04-07, 01:00
Adamicz's Avatar
Adamicz Adamicz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 7
Default

Another question, where was the first use of Universal Carrier in combat? In France as Bren Carriers?
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 04-04-07, 23:23
Rich Payne Rich Payne is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Limburg, Belgium
Posts: 278
Default

If the first combat use was in May 1940 then it was probably in Belgium as British Forces advanced to the Dyle line to meet the Germans. Some reconnaisance units went further.

The three mentioned earlier in this thread might have been among the first to come close to action.http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...&threadid=1429

Whilst I'm on, a friend on another forum has been looking for a positive ID of Carrier type in this picture showing 2nd Wilts in Italy in 1943.



Can anyone help ?
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-04-07, 06:59
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,541
Default

Universal Carrier, No.1,2,or3 (engine H.P.) Mk.1.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 16-04-07, 10:17
Rob Beale Rob Beale is offline
C8AX Ambulance (NZ), UC1*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 388
Default

"Making Tracks, British Carrier Story" by Peter Chamberlain and Chris Ellis Profile Publications 1973 80pp

Carrier MG No 1, Mk I had a flat front plate with a gap for the Vickers MMG

Carrier MG No 2, Mk I had the stepped front plate, but with a flat plate hinged above the Vickers MMG

Carrier Bren No 2, Mk I and II had the stepped front plate, but with an angled hood hinged above the Bren LMG (to clear the magazine)

Chamberlain and Ellis make no comment on the difference between the Mk I and Mk II Bren carriers, though they mention that the Boys AT rifle could be carried as well or instead.

They note that most Carrier MG No 2, Mk I were reworked to Bren carrier standards

Ellis published a series of 13 articles in Airfix Magazine ending July 1970 (I have copies of Part 8 - 13)
They both authored the AFV Profile No 14 "Carriers" in 1970.
There are slight differences between them, most likely corrections were made as earlier versions were published.

The Carrier Universal Mk I designation also applied to Bren and Scout carriers that were converted to universal standard.

No 1 English 65bhp engine
No 2 American 85bhp GAEA engine
No2A American 85bhp GAE engine
No 3 Canadian 85bhp engine

I am unsure about the 65bhp rating. They state 85bhp for the bren carrier, and refer to the british, american and canadian enginesas being of 221 cu in capacity, and being interchangeable.

In NZ we refer to 21 stud and 24 stud V8 motors
Can some one clarify this please? Nigel, Lynn.

Rob
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 16-04-07, 10:42
Rob Beale Rob Beale is offline
C8AX Ambulance (NZ), UC1*
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Posts: 388
Default Other books on carriers are:

Mike Cecil's Australian Military Equipment Profile no 2.
Jeff Plowman's Kiwi Armiour series.(most have carrier photos)
David Fletcher's Osprey New Vanguard book no 110 "Universal carrier 1936-48"

and check out Nigel Watson's thread on his forth coming books

Rob
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016