Gay rights? Try this in Iraq!

Originally posted by Snowtractor
... truly! I never expected such an attitude from you. But, me being an easy going guy, knock yourself out.

Hi Sean, am not clear exactly which comments or attitudes you mean and though I tried to figure it out by your comments in your post, I'm just not getting exactly what you're referring to? (you didn't "quote" me ) I'm extra slow tonight. Long very draining day after 20 minute sleep stretches all last night. Can you quote me so I can respond to you Thanks.

Karmen

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Pssst...... MA .... the photo Keith posted is not of a TANK....... look again. Denise made the same mistake many years ago with an M109.........

Hmmmm ... then perhaps a carrier wearing a tank-top that goes boom-boom?

I really don't know what that thing is! Help me out here Marko

K.

[alleramilitaria]

hey VETS
do some digging on Amnesty International. from all the data that i could dig up on them most of the data comes from open news. translation if you are not free and open it didnt happen.

durring sadams rule there were only around 2,000 exicutions per year world wide (many in of them in the US) and none in iraq. there were NO political prisnors in syria and iraq but there are thousands locked away in the US?????

i guess we just need to have secret courts and exicutions for child killers and we could get off the list like angola did.


AI was a great idea that was hijacked and turned into a far left wing waco group just like the ACLU and the UN (anyone want to buy a stamp or oil?).

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
hey VETS
do some digging on Amnesty International. from all the data that i could dig up on them most of the data comes from open news. translation if you are not free and open it didnt happen.

I'll do some digging tomorrow ... after (hopefully) a good sleep. At the moment am too personally zapped

Good night folks ...

Karmen.

Hi,

Well, am still not clear what brought this post on to me from you Sean, because I don't know what post of mine, or comments, you're referring to. So, I'll go through the post of yours and try and respond to some of your comments and questions

Originally posted by Snowtractor
... truly! I never expected such an attitude from you. But, me being an easy going guy, knock yourself out.

With no quote of what I said, I don't know what you're upset with me about, so I'm not quite getting what attitudes I displayed .

Did you know that there was a time that women were not considered as people?
Then there was a time when women didn't have the vote.
I can introduce you to men who think that these are still bad ideas.

Being born female, for me, in my own life, made me a target from toddlerhood and onwards of those adults who still viewed females as non-persons and targets of all sorts of behaviors justified by the attitudes that "female equals I'm entitled to do what I want to and with her and her life, her voice and choice do not exist". there are STILL many who do not view women/female as "people" ... I still meet them all the time. I learned young to try and avoid first, if not possible then passive or active submission, or else. We've not come so far as for those attituides and things to be history. Progress is slow, so rules and laws help a lot in the interim as the only checks and balances we can at least use to try and control behavior if the attitudes aren't "there yet. But that's only one form of "oppressiveness" amongst a whole lot of others when viewed from the perspective of "human rights and freedoms"

My point is oppression can happen anywhere to anyone, where does it stop.

Aye, there's the rub, hey? Everyone, and every place, seems to have different opinions and ideas, and rules and laws, on where those lines should be, whose labors pay to keep those lines in place, etc. We not only want to survive as a practical functioning country, but also want to survive individually and socially. Somethings are literally esssential and fundamental to the survival of the country, others aren't. Where are the clear lines?

I'm not into ethnic cleansing or anything else along those lines, I am more into the idea of "destructive behavior cleansing" ... like terrorism and destructive criminal behaviors against others and society just because someone feels entitled or doesn't like how someone else looks or believes.

I go through life "female" and from birth, thats brought on all sorts of reactions and behaviors from people. Many neutral and nice "a person too". Many very negative depending on the other persons midsets. We are all targets to someone else, for something about us that the other doesn't like, or wants from us and feels entitled to take, even violently against the will, or surreptitiously behind the back, or simply snuff us out.

Being part Native Indian has been interesting as well ... there are some who know that and my little bit of Indian blood makes me a target of those who are pissed off at what some native activists have done and do. My daughter has African blood in her as well, from her father. She sometimes gets mistaken for being "Indian" ... as in India and areas. She's 23. Works her heinie off, is good hearted and harmless. An asset to society. Some people stop seeing beyond "One of them" ... stereotyping.

If anything, I would like to see the bullying and scapegoating aspects of society stopped. We're all paying for what others think, usually what others think of someone else :

That's life. It's all out of my power and control and I do what I can, here and there.

ps: decorum in public is what people need, I don't much appreciate hetero couples sucking each others face off or hands up shirts and down pants when I am having my omelette at Humpty's either.

Thats sort of what I meant too with my comment about those guys/gals being on parade and doing a little sexual thing in the vehicle ... and why I said along the lines of "Well, if you want to be accepted and treated with more respect, or even just left alone to "be" ... in does NOT help your cause and gain you respect to do in-your-face deliberate rebelliousness sexual shenanigans to people whose acceptance and respect you're trying to "force" or gain. It only attracts more rejection and outrage for the disrespect. So ... "Don't be ridiculous".

Nice gay people who respect others and are great assets to society pay for the those other rebellious activistic behaviors through scapegoating. Gay is not the issue ... behaviors towards the rest of society is. At least thats how I see it.

Hmmm ... I hope I don't regret hitting send on this one, but what the heck, I've a I finally learned how to use sometimes About damned time too ... slow.

Karmen.

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
hey VETS
do some digging on Amnesty International.

AI was a great idea that was hijacked and turned into a far left wing waco group just like the ACLU and the UN (anyone want to buy a stamp or oil?).

Hi,

Well, I just came back from viewing the main page of the Canadian branch of AI ... and as I read through the many different and separate little "fights for rights for this that and the other here there and everywhere" headlines I just feel tired

I'd love to see human's inhumanity toward humans wiped off the face of the earth as well. What a wonderful ideal. Impossible goal though, I think.

I'm a mother, its in my instincts to nurture, protect, and preserve life anywhere and everywhere. But again, in this world, where are the lines?

I draw the line at things like fighting to release people who have destructive intent and behavior towards others in the world. As a woman and a mother, my first instinct is to "protect" life and others ... I'd go so far as to be the first to toss my kids heinie behind bars if she were a major danger to society (like a terrorist etc) and I'd heartbrokenly cry like crazy while locking the cage and throwing away the key until she was no longer a danger, or had passed away.

I also would NOT allow suspected terrorists to be released on bail because if they're terrorists they'll be free to carry out their original plans or split and carry them out later. There must have been enough proof to put them behind bars to begin with. the charges are severe danger to society ... it doesn't make sense to release on bail.

I gotta have a coffee and a :smoke: now.

Karmen

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Well it sure LOOKS like a mini-TANK to me

If not a tank, what the heck is it then? : Ma

Its a FV433 "Abbot" 105mm self-propelled gun. It is based on the venerable FV432 APC and as such is armoured against small arms fire and shrapnel.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...V433Abbot.html for instance.

It is not a tank.

R.

Originally posted by Richard Notton
Its a FV433 "Abbot" 105mm self-propelled gun.

It is not a tank.

R.

Thanks for "clueing me in" Richard

Karmen.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Richard Notton
Its a FV433 "Abbot" 105mm self-propelled gun. It is based on the venerable FV432 APC and as such is armoured against small arms fire and shrapnel.
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Qu...V433Abbot.html for instance.

It is not a tank.

R.

... Richard, ...... I was going to let MA stew a bit more before I gave her the answer ...... I thought maybe she would look it up or something..... Oh well..... next time I guess......

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Thanks for "clueing me in" Richard

Karmen.

Dear MA

... did Richard have to do this or this :dh: to get the CLUE to sink in..........

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Dear MA

... did Richard have to do this or this :dh: to get the CLUE to sink in..........

You are SO cheeky

I didn't have a clue as to what to search for other than doing an MLU search on all posts by Dave to find reference to what he drove or crewed ... I was much too lazy to do all of that reading.

Ma

[alleramilitaria]

THIS IS A JOKE THIS IS A JOKE

hey now geoff, dont you screen the people who post on this forum??? now come on you let girls on here?! whats next letting them vote?

THIS IS A JOKE THIS IS A JOKE had this not been a joke you would have been directed to the nearest EO and sexual harasment web site. this concludes the joke. thank you

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
THIS IS A JOKE THIS IS A JOKE

hey now geoff, dont you screen the people who post on this forum??? now come on you let girls on here?! whats next letting them vote?

THIS IS A JOKE THIS IS A JOKE had this not been a joke you would have been directed to the nearest EO and sexual harasment web site. this concludes the joke. thank you

Ah, go play on your own side of the sandbox, you boy, and stop pickin' on the girls ... I don't need the courts and womens rights activists, I just need my damned and it don't cost the taxpayers a dime he he her her ha ha

[alleramilitaria]

i only pick on ya cus i like ya

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
i only pick on ya cus i like ya

That's what guys always tell me

[Snowtractor]

Not in the least VD , just surprised. TO this point you seemed to the most open and accepting of "difference" of anyone on this forum, myself included. It just made me raise an eyebrow that you , of us all, would have such an archaic view of Homosexuality.
However , I see that after the first emotional response, not unlike myself, you have mellowed on introspection.
Not to belabour the point or be an advocate but my friend spent many years in personal hell trying to deny his orientation. He was even married to a woman for 4 years because of societies attitude and his determination not to be gay. How tough must that have been.
As a subnote many North American indian tribes had gay male tribesmen. They were treated as part of the tribe and essentially acted , performed and hung out as/with the women. Nothing was weird about it. I believe they were called contraries.
So anyway VD don't sweat my opinion, cause its my opinion. The only thing that would piss me off is if instead of stating your true thoughts you tried to appease me by regurgitating my thoughts...of course if I have masterfully convinced you to change your opinion , then that is okay to.
Sean

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Not in the least VD , just surprised. TO this point you seemed to the most open and accepting of "difference" of anyone on this forum, myself included. It just made me raise an eyebrow that you , of us all, would have such an archaic view of Homosexuality.

The only thing that would piss me off is if instead of stating your true thoughts you tried to appease me by regurgitating my thoughts...of course if I have masterfully convinced you to change your opinion , then that is okay to.
Sean

Glad you replied here Master Snowtractor

I've known a lot of gay people in my life, both men and women, some have been very close friends of mine, some still are after decades. I'm not gay. One female gay friend finally gave up after years and finally accepted I was not gay and not interested in her on that level, and she gave me a button one day saying "Straight But Not Rigid" ... meaning hetero but supportive of gay people to be gay without being harrassed or discriminated against for it (good button!) I think some people may be born gay, and others are created through life experiences in reaction TO those negative experiences with the opposite sex. We're all human and we all need love and affection and get that where we're most comfortable with. Whatever.

I know that if I were gay and wanted to be accepted and treated more respectfully by homophobics, that by inflicting my nakedness and performing sexual acts in front of their faces while riding in a military vehicle painted pink would not inspire them to accept and respect me, and it would especially pee off the military types. It would do a lot of damage to promoting tolerance of gays "as people worthy of respectful tolerance and treatment too"

Using contempt to win tolerance does not win tolerance, it simply strengthens and reinforces contempt responses. At least thats how I do the math and figure

Mathmetician I'm not though ...

Originally posted by Snowtractor
As a subnote many North American indian tribes had gay male tribesmen. They were treated as part of the tribe and essentially acted , performed and hung out as/with the women. Nothing was weird about it. I believe they were called contraries.
Sean

That's so cool

[Snowtractor]

...lest I get taken for some kind of expert which I am surely not.
My uncle is a Surgeon , and he is called in when a baby is born with two sets of genitals, both male and female. He is the one that removes one set of plumbing and makes sure the other is installed correctly. He feels that sometimes the wrong one is chosen making for a person who feels that they should be another gender. Note this does not explain all the centuries past , but it does explain some I think of the "friends of Dorothy".
END SENDING
Sean

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
... Richard, ...... I was going to let MA stew a bit more before I gave her the answer ...... I thought maybe she would look it up or something..... Oh well..... next time I guess......

OH!
Bugger.

That's what comes of the Interwebnet shrinking time, I'm awake (allegedly) when you're all asleep.

R.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Richard Notton
OH!
Bugger.

That's what comes of the Interwebnet shrinking time, I'm awake (allegedly) when you're all asleep.

R.

Hi Richard;

It is just as well that you gave MA the answer, from what I've read on another thread, (under TAC HQ), located here , the poor little thing is a bit confused at the moment regarding whether she lives in the Mountains of British Columbia or in the State of Hawaii :, so while she figures that one out at least she won't be pulling her hair out trying to figure out "If its not a Tank, What is it?"........... hopefully she figures out where she actually lives soon.....

Cheers

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
........... hopefully she figures out where she actually lives soon.....

Cheers

Well ... tis easy to get : about where I live ... so many big moves the last couple of years or so ... and now hardly get out of the apartment these days to see where I live ... I got high hopes for physio ... people look at me like I'm REAL DRUNK when they see me out these days ... very slow and unsteady gait, staggers, corrections from falls all the time : ... so don't be hard on me when I don't always know where I am!

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Hi Richard;

It is just as well that you gave MA the answer, from what I've read on another thread, (under TAC HQ), located here , the poor little thing is a bit confused at the moment regarding whether she lives in the Mountains of British Columbia or in the State of Hawaii :, so while she figures that one out at least she won't be pulling her hair out trying to figure out "If its not a Tank, What is it?"........... hopefully she figures out where she actually lives soon.....

Cheers

Oh yes, the time thing. Quite amazing with all the Interwebnet caesium beam clock referenced digital doohickey do-dads, that in this virtual reality I have to be in "Brazil, Buenos Aires, Georgetown" to get the right time which claims to be "GMT +3hrs"

I can assure you according to MSF Rugby though http://www.npl.co.uk/time/ we are actually at GMT +1hr, otherwise known as "BST".

Maybe Ma 's problem stems from the fact that Mickey Mouse's left hand has fallen off.


R.

Originally posted by Richard Notton
Maybe Ma 's problem stems from the fact that Mickey Mouse's left hand has fallen off.


R.