Ford Wreck in the Desert (2)

[nuyt]

number 2

[nuyt]

firewood for after the war

[nuyt]

Originally posted by cliff
You must have an earlier version of the book and not the revised addition like mine as page 214 has a line up of the different CMP type vehicles produced by Canada.

The RAAF truck was probably supplied by the British as most AIF vehicles in North Africa were supplied from British Forces Stocks and 'sold' to Australia later so is more likely to be one of the vehicles pictured in Barts book as per the scan I have already posted.

As Ford USA also made Right Hand Drive vehicles for export and I can find no reference to the pictured Ford E018T assembled in England being Left Hand Drive it could in fact be RHD and the same as the pictured Desert Wreck. Ford Canada could be the maker of the RHD desert wreck but I am unsure if they did make the flat cowl export model or not.

The main thing to remember though, is that the desert wreck is a flat cowl model with no signs of door hinge attachment points on the front door pillars so will be one of the export models sold arround the world at that time with RHD versions going to some countries and LHD to others. Cabs and bodies would have been built locally in whatever country the vehicle was shipped to.

Sorry Cliff, Vanderveen says all UK-assembled Fords were lhd, so it's unlikely our desert Ford is one of these:

[cliff]

OK that's fine all the UK assembled Fords being LHD BUT all the other photos you have just posted including the Australian Ford and the French Ford are all either Full cab or cowl with windscreen vehicles while the desert vehicle is a flat faced cowl unit.

Now a lot of these flat faced cowl units in RHD were shipped as export models either from Canada or the USA for years during the 30's. I remember seeing survivers in New Zealand while growing up there, although come to think of it, they were mainly imported from Canada so our desert wreck could be one of these. But did the Canadian Ford plant still make these flat faced cowl units in 1940/41 which is when the desert vehicle was made?

[cliff]

I did a google image search looking for '1941 Ford Truck' in an effort to see if I could find any of the flat faced cowl Ford trucks.

At http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1940-1...rd-trucks2.htm I found the image below which shows a shortened wheelbase delivery van. This would have left the factory as a flat faced cowl and had the special delivery van body built on by another bodybuilding company. In 1939 it shows a fire engine with the flat face cowl as well so this proves that Ford USA did make flat faced cowl units in 1941. Most of these would have been LHD but they did also make RHD export vehicles as well and if Ford USA made these cowl units then there is a good likely hood that Canada made some as well.

Another possibility is the desert wreck is a 'seized' civilian one from imported stocks delivered to the Middle East or elsewhere.

[Kuno]

...did not take any measurement

[nuyt]

According to James Wagner's Ford Trucks since 1905 there was still a 1940 chassis/cowl 158 inch (page 194, converted to sleeper cab). The book shows another milk car as Cliff shows, based on the chassis cowl 112 inch wb one ton truck.

Note that Marmon-Herrington converted Ford chassis cowl and/or chassis windeshield trucks up to the 1942 models!

The French had rhd Canadian Chevrolets (through the British). My bet thats also the source of this Ford....

[cliff]

The French had rhd Canadian Chevrolets (through the British). My bet thats also the source of this Ford....

That is my guess as well but it may have also been British or any of the Commonwealth armies as well.

[nuyt]

Agreed

What about South African? They had Canadian sourced rhd Fords
Cant remember ever seeing a pic though...

[Kuno]

...so we end up saying that nearly everybody could have used such truck

[cliff]

Originally posted by Kuno
...so we end up saying that nearly everybody could have used such truck

correct

Were there any other markings noticeable on the bonnet like an ARN on the bonnet sides? I do realise that the wind blown sand had removed most of the paint and polished the panels.

[Kuno]

All paint was gone except for the bonnet - which we found upside down in the sand. Therefore no other marings were visible

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by cliff
Most of these would have been LHD but they did also make RHD export vehicles as well and if Ford USA made these cowl units then there is a good likely hood that Canada made some as well.

Cliff, I have never seen any reference to Ford USA making RHD vehicles. Most RHD vehicles would have come from Ford Canada, which was much more involved with exporting, particularly to Empire nations, with which it had the exclusive Ford rights.

[nuyt]

Another possibility would be India. Ford India was a subsidiary of Ford Canada. They produced chassis cowl trucks with Indian wooden body work and small windscreens...is that a windscreen frame on Kunos pictures?

But AFAIK the Indian Long Range Patrol used Chevrolet trucks....

Some pics of Indian Chevies here;
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...&threadid=9944

[Kuno]

To me it looked like a windscreen. But not of the same type as it has been used by the LRDG.

[nuyt]

Originally posted by Kuno
...so we end up saying that nearly everybody could have used such truck

Dont think so, my bet is:
1. French
2. Indian

[nuyt]

Ford Bombay also delivered this 1942-47 model chassis windscreen truck (in postwar Dutch service on Sumatra):

[nuyt]

another Indian Pattern Ford in Singapore:

[nuyt]

Indian Chevies:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...dian+chevrolet

[nuyt]

If this is the "Indian Pattern Windscreen" we may be on to something:

[nuyt]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
Dont think so, my bet is:
1. French
2. Indian

Allow me to refrase:

1. Indian
2. French

[nuyt]

Indian Long Range Patrol: not a Ford in sight

[Kuno]

@ ericnuyt; this is exactly the same frame as for "my" windscreen. Great find!

[nuyt]

In december 1941 the LRDG received 25 Chevrolet 1311X3 Austrialian-assembled Canadian Pattern 15cwt 4x2s fitted with the Indian Pattern body from India (Osprey LRDG book):

[nuyt]

David Fletcher's Tanks in camera has this picture of possibly a 1939 Indian recce Ford truck:

[nuyt]

Tony Hall's British Eight Army Infantry "Desert Rat" includes this picture of a Ford truck apparently in South African service: "South African fighter pilots take a lift to their aircraft". Note the number plate. I suspect the picture is from the Middle East, but possibly Syria. There's also a picture of British troops fraternizing at the border with Turkey!

[cliff]

Excellent rare Ford photos. Thanks for sharing

[nuyt]

No problem Cliff

[Kuno]

Eric! You were far more successful in your search for that Ford as I was last night. Thanks a lot. Now, two more things are missing:
A) A picture of that truck with the sandladder-brackets
B) ...that we know, who drove it to its last place

[nuyt]

Maybe we should look for Indian or other Army cavalry units equipped with these kinds of LRDG type trucks, but NOT assigned to LRDG. Not my cup of tea though, anybody?