Need help: M151a2 CAF Europe 74-22375

[Gaspare]

I never touched the paint of the rear bumpers and of the antenna mast, it shows the 34159.
Remember that it is a faded color.
The "CANADIAN ARMED FORCES" on the hood, has been painted in 24525,
in some areas close to this the old paint shows a kind of olive color that i am still investigating (it has been almost always tape covered during painting).

[Gaspare]

About the color scheme i tried to follow the official truck utility 1/4 ton
and i am still work in progress.
I found some pics where the colors where displaced: in a CDN museum (can anyone tell me where is this museum?) operations in Valcartier and some pre restoring.
The curious thing is that on my car there was some black in more or less the same areas.
Is it a matter of not always followed official scheme or the existence of different schemes?

[Eric B]

The last photo, I took of the Black Watch of Canada when we were in Valcartier.

This was the units M151, which i was driving. It was left outside so the paint faded. We had no interior vehicle storage.

This photo should only be on Clive Law's Ram Tank CFR Data page and not on any museum page, unless the Black Watch Museum has finally used some of my photos on their web page.

Thanks
Eric

[rob love]

It appears to have a replacement CFR number (63558). Possibly the Jeep had it's original plates lost or stolen, at which time a new CFR should (but rarely was) have been assigned to it.

[Gaspare]

Hallo Rob,
welcame back!
I finished the m151 repainting and i am going to post some more pics i will appreciate some comments to them

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by Eric B

The last photo, I took of the Black Watch of Canada when we were in Valcartier.

This was the units M151, which i was driving. It was left outside so the paint faded. We had no interior vehicle storage.

This photo should only be on Clive Law's Ram Tank CFR Data page and not on any museum page, unless the Black Watch Museum has finally used some of my photos on their web page.

Thanks
Eric

Hallo Eric

For the true i don't remember the site from which i took the m151 with unstuckers pic, that's why i was asking if anyone knows the location,

About the color scheme of the one in Valcartier, cosidered the difference of the black scheme from the standard one, do you remember if the M151 in your unit were all painted in the same scheme or they were painted in a random scheme?

Thank you for answering me.

[Gaspare]

Ok gents, i finished the job,
i hope you will like what my M151 looks like for this winter

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

Hallo Eric

For the true i don't remember the site from which i took the m151 with unstuckers pic, that's why i was asking if anyone knows the location,

About the color scheme of the one in Valcartier, cosidered the difference of the black scheme from the standard one, do you remember if the M151 in your unit were all painted in the same scheme or they were painted in a random scheme?

Thank you for answering me.

Gaspare:

It has been a pleasure reading through the postings. There are always small details that emerge when a thoughtful question is asked.

Although you asked Eric about paint, I can give an answer from my experience. The diagram you posted was the only set of instructions available. Sometime about 1977 or 78, there was an order to all units to paint their vehicles camouflage. Reserve units, like Eric's and mine, did not have the same level of technical support as any Regular Force unit. My unit was wheeled reconnaissance, and we had fifteen or twenty M38A1 CDN2s and 3s, plus two M151A2s. If the vehicle went through the military's workshops, it was spray painted. If it was still in service, and not broken badly enough, the troops painted them on the armoury floor.

The procedure started with a heavy pressure water and scrub brush cleaning. Then the Corporal or Master Corporal in charge, held the diagram in one hand and drew lines on the vehicle with a stubby piece of chalk he found in a classroom. Then the soldiers shook up paint cans, dipped in 4" brushes and painted inside the lines, right over the semi-gloss green factory paint. Absolutely nothing regulation or more definitive than that. It took several years for all our vehicles to finally cycle through the workshops and come out looking uniform.

[Eric B]

Hello

I guess i missed out responding at some point.oops

Thanks for the reminder Terry and welcome to the M151A2 world.

I do not remember any painting or mechanical work being done at our Unit.
Everything was done at the Secteur de L'est Service Battalion located at St Hubert. The pool vehicles, which we used a great deal of were left on the runway. All of these were handpainted rather than sprayed.

We had one Command Post 5/4 ton, one passenger van and a M151A2. Sometimes we had a 5/4 ton troop carrier and a MLVW but i think these were pool vehicles.

The paint seems to follow the pattern somewhat on a blown up version of the photo. Hard to see due to glare.

Attached is mine, which was originally in the three colour paint pattern. It is very faded and you can see the fading on the rollcage MLU mount where the cover protected it.

Mine was never Zeibart treated. No holes/plugs or plate.

There was a mod for the wooden box rear seat. This was to add more storage space. Mine had it as the wire was removed from the seat bottom and there are holes where the box was bolted to the floor.

Thanks
Eric

[rob love]

I think I still have one of those wooden "seat boxes" kicking around somwhere. I never saw them on any of the M151A2s in Winnipeg, but when I bought all the Shilo trucks, almost half of them had the mod. The Shilo trucks also had an ugly front grill protector, which I also never saw elsewhere.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

I think I still have one of those wooden "seat boxes" kicking around somwhere. I never saw them on any of the M151A2s in Winnipeg, but when I bought all the Shilo trucks, almost half of them had the mod. The Shilo trucks also had an ugly front grill protector, which I also never saw elsewhere.

Figures... I have the furnace filter grill, but no useful seat box mod.

I always love field mods. I had a Sergeant Major a few years back who had the back of his LSVW Cargo turned into an office and bed space. The back wall was turned into a desk with a wall of cubbies.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Scott Bentley

Figures... I have the furnace filter grill, but no useful seat box mod.

I always love field mods. I had a Sergeant Major a few years back who had the back of his LSVW Cargo turned into an office and bed space. The back wall was turned into a desk with a wall of cubbies.

Scott.
There were two authorized grill modifications. The first was the square frame with the expanded metal which attached directly to the grill. This kept the sticks from puncturing the rad while pushing bush.

The second was the ugly one: A metal frame as big as the entire grill with expanded metal the entire size, headlight holes, and mounted on the bumper.

As to truck modifications, mechanics will always take the cake. My MRT (a MLVW), besides being very well equipped tool wise, featured a full size workbench with 6" vice, ample sleeping space, 12 volt converter for the TV/VCR combo along with the refridgerator, electric boiling vessels (not the APC kind, but the aircraft type), ample heat, even for the Canadian prairies, and half the roof rack was enclosed and an opening into the back of the truck was made. The area was for the dry food supplies......ration packs did not enter into my truck. Nor did sleeping bags. Pillows and sheets were all that was needed to stay warm.

A clean drain pan was kept in the back for "bird bathing". A pot of hot water heated electrically was used for a bird bath (door locked of course) and washing hair. Felt like a million bucks after that, and it saved the long trip to and from the MLBUs. Seemed like you came back from them as dirty as when you left.

Cab of course had bucket seats, and a secondary heater that made parkas unnecessary. A jump seat (foldable) was installed in the middle for the unlucky casualty to ride on.

I saw the truck at the RCA not that long ago, and still in it's modified format. I should get photos of it before it is relegated to the scrap pile in the next few years. Spent a lot of time in that truck.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Scott.
There were two authorized grill modifications. The first was the square frame with the expanded metal which attached directly to the grill. This kept the sticks from puncturing the rad while pushing bush.

The second was the ugly one: A metal frame as big as the entire grill with expanded metal the entire size, headlight holes, and mounted on the bumper.

As to truck modifications, mechanics will always take the cake. My MRT (a MLVW), besides being very well equipped tool wise, featured a full size workbench with 6" vice, ample sleeping space, 12 volt converter for the TV/VCR combo along with the refridgerator, electric boiling vessels (not the APC kind, but the aircraft type), ample heat, even for the Canadian prairies, and half the roof rack was enclosed and an opening into the back of the truck was made. The area was for the dry food supplies......ration packs did not enter into my truck. Nor did sleeping bags. Pillows and sheets were all that was needed to stay warm.

A clean drain pan was kept in the back for "bird bathing". A pot of hot water heated electrically was used for a bird bath (door locked of course) and washing hair. Felt like a million bucks after that, and it saved the long trip to and from the MLBUs. Seemed like you came back from them as dirty as when you left.

Cab of course had bucket seats, and a secondary heater that made parkas unnecessary. A jump seat (foldable) was installed in the middle for the unlucky casualty to ride on.

I saw the truck at the RCA not that long ago, and still in it's modified format. I should get photos of it before it is relegated to the scrap pile in the next few years. Spent a lot of time in that truck.

Although some would be quick to condemn such comforts, but having observed many mechs working in their natural habitat, I have the utmost respect for them. Just a couple months ago I had the pleasure of observing a pair working on a broken down field heater somewhere between Timmins and Moose Factory in some pretty low temps. Over the years i've had many others remark about feeling sorry for Sappers. I always retort by saying thank god i'm not an Army Mechanic.

[Gaspare]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Gaspare:

It has been a pleasure reading through the postings. There are always small details that emerge when a thoughtful question is asked.

Although you asked Eric about paint, I can give an answer from my experience. The diagram you posted was the only set of instructions available. Sometime about 1977 or 78, there was an order to all units to paint their vehicles camouflage. Reserve units, like Eric's and mine, did not have the same level of technical support as any Regular Force unit. My unit was wheeled reconnaissance, and we had fifteen or twenty M38A1 CDN2s and 3s, plus two M151A2s. If the vehicle went through the military's workshops, it was spray painted. If it was still in service, and not broken badly enough, the troops painted them on the armoury floor.

The procedure started with a heavy pressure water and scrub brush cleaning. Then the Corporal or Master Corporal in charge, held the diagram in one hand and drew lines on the vehicle with a stubby piece of chalk he found in a classroom. Then the soldiers shook up paint cans, dipped in 4" brushes and painted inside the lines, right over the semi-gloss green factory paint. Absolutely nothing regulation or more definitive than that. It took several years for all our vehicles to finally cycle through the workshops and come out looking uniform.

Thank you Terry,
also this is helpful :-)

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally Posted by Scott Bentley

Yup, those are the "unstuckers". I wouldn't mind at least the flanges if anyone is sitting on a pair.

Unstucker...when we got our 5/4T c.1976, there was an Unstucker listed on the Check List but there was also a Deviation Record attached which listed the Unstucker kit as not issued.

We got the hub plates, but nothing else and the DR remained until the veh was disposed.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

Ok gents, i finished the job,
i hope you will like what my M151 looks like for this winter

Looks like a metal jerry can. Should it not be a plastic Sceptre one?

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by Jon Skagfeld

Looks like a metal jerry can. Should it not be a plastic Sceptre one?

I brought this up in the Jerry Can thread as well. Apparently the plastic cans weren't common until the mid 80s. I'm running a 70s dated metal can as well. The plastic cans barely fit within the lower strap.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally Posted by Scott Bentley

I brought this up in the Jerry Can thread as well. Apparently the plastic cans weren't common until the mid 80s. I'm running a 70s dated metal can as well. The plastic cans barely fit within the lower strap.

Yes...I recall getting the Sceptre cans after submitting demands for the metal cans. When filled, they bulged so much that sliding them into a jerry can holder was a chore.

I saw stacked pallets of metal cans having an axe stroke through them rendering them useless, so Sceptre was the only way to go.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Jon Skagfeld

Unstucker...when we got our 5/4T c.1976, there was an Unstucker listed on the Check List but there was also a Deviation Record attached which listed the Unstucker kit as not issued.

We got the hub plates, but nothing else and the DR remained until the veh was disposed.

The unstucker kits were just another bag full of useless crap floating around the back of the truck. Even the plates eventually got tossed, as the mechanics were tired of having to get out 2 or 3 sockets instead of just one to remove a tire.

Add to that, the poor drivers (said with a slight grin) thinking that little T wrench that came with the unstucker was for changing the tire. It did not have the leverage required to remove the actual wheel, but often the operators would lose the full size wrench and only have the tiny one.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Add to that, the poor drivers (said with a slight grin) thinking that little T wrench that came with the unstucker was for changing the tire. It did not have the leverage required to remove the actual wheel, but often the operators would lose the full size wrench and only have the tiny one.

Ah ha, that's what that thing was for! I still come across those from time to time wondering why the hell someone would buy a lug wrench so small.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Scott Bentley

Ah ha, that's what that thing was for! I still come across those from time to time wondering why the hell someone would buy a lug wrench so small.

Add to that if you did manage to get near the appropriate leverage onto the little T wrench, it would break in half.

As long as you got stuck with a tree somewhere within a 20° angle to the back of you, and within a reasonable distance, you were good to go with an unstucker.

Of course, the operators wouldn't know about this, and for good reason. The instructions for the unstucker use on the M151A2 was published as an addition to the operators manual, but on 8-1/2 X 11 paper format. So the instructions never really made it out past the CFTO library, especially considering the M151A2 operators manuals were little tiny pocket size manuals.

Below is a page from the unstucker supplement.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Add to that if you did manage to get near the appropriate leverage onto the little T wrench, it would break in half.

As long as you got stuck with a tree somewhere within a 20° angle to the back of you, and within a reasonable distance, you were good to go with an unstucker.

Of course, the operators wouldn't know about this, and for good reason. The instructions for the unstucker use on the M151A2 was published as an addition to the operators manual, but on 8-1/2 X 11 paper format. So the instructions never really made it out past the CFTO library, especially considering the M151A2 operators manuals were little tiny pocket size manuals.

Below is a page from the unstucker supplement.

Rob Love, you are the king of Army Sarcasm. A true master my friend

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Scott Bentley

Rob Love, you are the king of Army Sarcasm. A true master my friend

Is it sarcasm when it's true?

I do have a bit of a biting sense of humour that some can take the wrong way.

[NORTH-SHORE(CANADA)]

Originally Posted by Gaspare

Hallo Scotty,

Perini sent the wrong label.

I called him and he promised fix the mistake so i should have to receive the Ziebart label in a few days.

Hi,
where i could get one of those data plate
thanks
eric