Mystery British WDS trucks

[Bill Murray]

Thank you Pete:
I will pass it on to the other forum and I agree with you.
Bill

[David Potter]

UPDATE: It's a 6-pounder mounted on the back of an Albion 6 x 4 (BY1?) in 1940 at Chatham from memory: L 211542, V.3560 Lorry 3-ton G/S, Pontoon, TSR, Folding Boat Equipment, LLB, SBG, Break Down'. Excuse my ignorance but what doies TSR, LLB, and SBG stand for? [/B]

Probably a bit late in the day to answer your question!

for the record:

TSB - Trestle and Sliding Bay. Used to carry trestle equipment for MkV pontoon bridge. The sliding bay was a length of roadway to accompany trestle equipment. Obsolete in 1944 (replaced by Bailey pontoon bridge).
TSB Trestle load
On frame: 14x Roadbearers, long, plain; 2x Roadbearers, long, button; 2x Ribands, long.
In the well: 1x Transom; 2x Transom legs; 2x Struts; 21x Chesses.
On side shelves: 1x Saddle; 4x Chesses; 2x Chesses, stiffening.
In the forward compartment: 2x Shoes; 2x Shoe extensions; 2x Jacks; 3x Racking channels; 3x Racking bolts; 1x Trestle transport case; 4x Ropes; 2x Lashings; 3x 5' Pickets; 2x Mauls.
Sliding Bay load:
On frame: 14x Roadbearers, long, plain; 2x Roadbearers, long, button; 2x Ribands, long.
In the well: 25x Chesses; 2x Rafting levers.
On side shelves: 2x Chesses, stiffening; 5x Racking boxes; 4x Roadbearer lifters.
In the forward compartment: 8x Ramps; 5x Bridging spikes; 2x Hammers; 2x Holdfast anchors; 2x Ropes; 2x Lashings; 3x Sliding Bay guides.
TSB body was used on Albion BY1 & BY3, AEC Marshall and Leyland Retriever; also fitted to Diamond T 975 but never used since equipment was obsolete so these chassis were fitted with Coles cranes in UK.

LLB - Long Landing Bay. Used with MkV pontoon bridge. Standard GS body with holes in headboard and tailboard to allow protruding pins on box sections. Obsolete in 1944 (replaced by Bailey pontoon bridge).
LLB Load:
4x Hornbeams fit into the body well laid horizontally in two layers with the large ends pointing in opposite directions so that they interlock;
2x Centre box sections fit vertically on the wheel arches;
2x Ramps with their narrow ends overlapping to fit outside the box sections;
3x Ribands fit over each of the pairs of of ramps;
5x Deck panels lie over the hornbeams in the body centre;
Small part slie inside the bottom hornbeams.

SBG - Short Box Girder. SBG Mk2 & Mk3 was in use in 1939; obsolete in 1944 (replaced by Bailey bridge), although SBG Mk2 components were used in SBG assault bridge carried by Churchill AVRE in 79th Armoured Division.
SBG Load 1:
On frames: 4x Box sections; 2x Launching nose on top of box sections; 2x Launching cradles on rear ends of outside box sections.
In toolbox: 4x Cradle Pins; 16x Dogs.
SBG Load 2:
On frames: 4x Hornbeam sections; 1x Launching nose on top of hornbeams; 1x Launching cradles on rear ends of one of the hornbeams; 4x Ramps on top of hornbeams; 2x Bankseats on top of hornbeams.
In toolbox: 9x Dogs; 4x Cradle & Ramp pins; 4x Launching rollers; 4x 6 fathom lengths of 2" lashings.
In hornbeams: 3x Handspikes; 8x Carrying bars; 4x 5' Pickets; 1x Maul.
SBG body was used on Albion BY1 & BY3, AEC Marshall and Karrier CK6.

I will try and dig out some photos.

David

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Thanks for that...I might be able to incorporate it in VINTAGE ROADSCENE. A printed version of the photo just appeared in VINTAGE ROADSCENE issue 96, as well as of the Chevrolet-Scammell FAT, plus a MCC CDSW FAT.

[David Potter]

Struggling to find some British 3 ton 6x4 TSB images, so here is a Diamond T 975 TSB which at least is in-tune with the forum!

David

[David Potter]

First another Diamond T 975, this time with SBG

[David Potter]

Originally posted by David Potter
Probably a bit late in the day to answer your question!

for the record:


SBG - Short Box Girder. SBG Mk2 & Mk3 was in use in 1939; obsolete in 1944 (replaced by Bailey bridge), although SBG Mk2 components were used in SBG assault bridge carried by Churchill AVRE in 79th Armoured Division.
SBG Load 1:
On frames: 4x Box sections; 2x Launching nose on top of box sections; 2x Launching cradles on rear ends of outside box sections.
In toolbox: 4x Cradle Pins; 16x Dogs.
SBG Load 2:
On frames: 4x Hornbeam sections; 1x Launching nose on top of hornbeams; 1x Launching cradles on rear ends of one of the hornbeams; 4x Ramps on top of hornbeams; 2x Bankseats on top of hornbeams.
In toolbox: 9x Dogs; 4x Cradle & Ramp pins; 4x Launching rollers; 4x 6 fathom lengths of 2" lashings.
In hornbeams: 3x Handspikes; 8x Carrying bars; 4x 5' Pickets; 1x Maul.
SBG body was used on Albion BY1 & BY3, AEC Marshall and Karrier CK6.

I will try and dig out some photos.

David

OK, still no full size British SBG images, but here is a 1/76 model (AEC Marshall) which at least gives an idea of the SBG load.

[David Potter]

Originally posted by David Potter
Probably a bit late in the day to answer your question!

for the record:

LLB - Long Landing Bay. Used with MkV pontoon bridge. Standard GS body with holes in headboard and tailboard to allow protruding pins on box sections. Obsolete in 1944 (replaced by Bailey pontoon bridge).
LLB Load:
4x Hornbeams fit into the body well laid horizontally in two layers with the large ends pointing in opposite directions so that they interlock;
2x Centre box sections fit vertically on the wheel arches;
2x Ramps with their narrow ends overlapping to fit outside the box sections;
3x Ribands fit over each of the pairs of of ramps;
5x Deck panels lie over the hornbeams in the body centre;
Small part slie inside the bottom hornbeams.

I will try and dig out some photos.

David

Again a 1/76 model (Leyland Retriever) to demonstrate LLB load.

Both this and previous model were made by Mike Simpson when he was running the late lammented Trux Models; I now have much of the remaining stock of 3ton 6x4 kits (especially bridging!) for a museum display (the idea being to display full size Albion BY5 FBE alongside).

David

[David Potter]

Now my turn to ask for help!

OK this picture is a classic (well known view) of a WOF AC4 with late war (post 1943) steel GS body - that is the easy bit!

Does anyone (Les?) have any images of the late war closed cab fitted to the Tartar? I have a drawing from John Church but have yet to see an image of real thing! The drawing shows quite a different (very angular) shape to Thorneycroft Nubian (which while not exactly rounded does have curved sections!).

David

[Les Freathy]

Hi David

Christ this one took some locating, the closed cab Thornycroft you require this one is prototype and i have not seen any info to state if it went into limited production or was issued
cheers
Les

[David Potter]

Les,

As always your photo library is the envy of every member! Thank you for posting the prototype closed cab Thorneycroft. Only information I have is "late type cab fitted with late type radiator, brush guards and headlights similar (to open cab)" - John Church; "Some fitted with closed cab after 1945" - Bart.
Carrying on with the Thorneycroft theme, has anyone seen / photographed Preston Isaac's 1944 WOF/DC/4 stored at the Cobbaton collection in North Devon? Description / images welcome!

David

[Jan Mostek]

Hi Guys,
I would like to return to the post in this thread sent by David Hayward on January 21st 2006, which I just found by chance. there are two pictures, one of them being enlarged a little bit here below. It is mentioned to be Ford BB, but it is definitely 1928 Ford AA, original Ford radiator, cowling, cab and chassis. The mudguards are reworked (simplified), wheels are some WD pattern. I am very much interested in any information about Ford AA trucks used in British or other military service. Is it possible to digg out some more information about this particualer vehicle or similar Fords?
Happy searching,
Jan.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The original print, which I have in front of me, indicates that it was an experimental Fordson lorry, allocated to the Mechanical Warfare Experimental Establishment, as it then was, in Farnborough, Hampshire, and has "V.21196" on the cowl side. Also maximum speed 20 mph! The registration is a Middlesex County Council one, MG xxxx. There were two Government batches reserved in the MG series, and the first was issued 21st December 1928, so this could be a 1929-on lorry. The War Office started buying Fordsons around 1935, so I don't know if this was a unique vehicle, but at the time it was a trials/experimental one.

[Jan Mostek]

Thanks, David, for the additional information. Correct, it is Fordson because it is british made, as also the steering wheel on the "wrong" side indicates, but it is 1928 Ford AA pattern. The 1929 and later pattern has different radiator, cowling, mudguards and cab outlines and differs in some details (rear axle for an example).

Happy searching

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Jan, because it's a military vehicle, it could be a "special" using '28 parts in a 1929-supplied lorry (from Trafford Park Plant). I have a few mid-1930s Fordson photos including one with a 6-wheel conversion by Unipower from memory. Some had lhd!

That said I confess I know nothing about the AA series, and little more about the BB series either. Thank you for the new information!

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

This is a Retriever, Census Number L 4162273 with “wireless body” (V.3618) on 18th March 1941 although the caption states that it is a wireless lorry! Does that make sense? There are various batches including others with Machinery, FF and W/T bodies.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

First one..MCC CD behind?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

6 x4 Leyland/Albion/Thorny/...?

[Les Freathy]

David the Leyland Retriever is certainly a Machinery body generally known as a house type, it could one of around half dozen different applications
cheers
Les

[David Potter]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
6 x4 Leyland/Albion/Thorny/...?

Sorry for delay in replying (been in hospital recently!):

Quite an interesting line-up!

Nearest vehicle is Albion BY1 or BY3

Next to it appears to be a Thorneycroft .....?

Cheers

David

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Thanks Dave..BY1 I think.