C8 data plate - Page 4

cletrac (RIP) · #91 09-04-07, 04:56

I've put all our F8 serials together in this list. The last one is from the Canadian Register site. I think you can safely conclude that the 11/7 date is Nov 7th. In 11 days they made just about 500 trucks so that's about 45 a day. It's strange that so many 11/11s survived but that's just a coincidence as they fall within a days production.

serial 21435; motor 2G-45176-F; 11/7/41; body 48
serial 21596; motor 2G-49103-F; 11/11/41 body 256
serial 21629; motor 2G-48956-F; 11/11/41 body 19
serial 21634; motor 2G-51641-F; 11/11/41 body 12
serial 21586; motor 2G-49082-F; 11/11/41 CD98 GS body
serial 21623; motor 2G-49170-F; 11/11/41 CD 98 ?
serial 21755; motor 2G-48894-F; 11/12/41 CD98 long box
serial 21758 ? ? ? ?
serial 21825; motor 2G-49525-F; 11/13/41 CD 384 WIRE
serial 21922; motor 2G-49764-F; 11/17/41 SM 392 cargo

David_Hayward (RIP) · #92 09-04-07, 13:38

Did Peter leave a list of C8s by any lucky chance please?

Also, note the two new contracts, CDLV 384 and 392 (from " SM or CD..." on the plates.

Fascinating stuff guys.

PS: on reflection, 45 per day makes sense if they had say at least two lines working at Windsor.

cletrac (RIP) · #93 09-04-07, 22:04

I came up with some useful info on the demobilizing of these F8s. 21634 is on a farm not far from me and I talked with the owner today. Shortly after he returned from the war his father was trying to acquire a farm truck but there were none to be had. He found out about hundreds of surplus army trucks being sold to farmers so he ordered three for a few hundred dollars each. They were shipped to Eston from Nova Scotia on the train. They were three identical F8s and at least two were made on Nov 11 41 but he can't remember if the third one was too. He recalls that 21634 had 48 miles on the odometer and the other two were under 100 miles too. The army obviously took delivery and then put them in storage right away. This was the general service body version that was supposedly used longer than the wireless units so I wonder how many of this batch would have actually ended up being used.

david moore · #94 10-04-07, 05:29

David (H)

Peter Ford's list references 28 C8's, 18 of them Cab 11's, 4 Cab 12's and 6 cab type not indicated.

22 of them were in Canada (5 at Elliotts), 4 in the UK, 1 in Holland and 1 in Oz.

Only 14 of the total have any data plate numbers- in case you don't have them, they are: (none have actual d-o-m or contract #)

no serial # - eng 2802530-short box WS -11 cab
0842001063 - no eng # - 11 cab
0842001064 - eng 2802093 - 11 cab
0842002577 - no eng #- 11 cab
0842002671 - eng 2812410 - 11 cab
0842002707 - no eng # - 11 cab
0842002748 - no eng # - 11 cab
0842002762 - eng 2814129 - 11 cab
0842002789 - no eng # - 11 cab
0844403045 - no eng # no cab type - indicated as C8 though
1842018584 - eng ZR3725225 - no cab type
2842001160 - eng 3766005 - 12 cab
2842001179 - eng 3765990 - body #122 - 12 cab
2842001216 - eng 3766043 - GS long box body #105 -12cab

While I am about it, let me add Peter's 11 cab Ford F8 info ( I only gave the 12 cab data previously)
10 listed, 7 in Canada, 3 in UK - only a few with data and none with actual d-o-m:
1G-4180F 11 cab
1G-4266F 11 cab
1G-5820F 11 cab long box
1G-6588F 11 cab

-

David_Hayward (RIP) · #95 10-04-07, 09:39

David (M) very many thanks. I make my database available for all and sundry, and I collect data from all over including old civilian rego records. Taken me many years. Are the rest of the Chevrolet CMP records available? My info is freely available but I have no wish to impinge in any way in respect of Peter's data.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #96 10-04-07, 09:43

1G-4180F 11 cab}
1G-4266F 11 cab} motors assembled in May 1940

1G-5820F 11 cab}
1G-6588F 11 cab} motors assembled in June 1940

Those assembled in England would have been built in the CMD, Southampton, or just possibly Dagenham in a corner of the complex. Regrettably the Southampton building was demolished a few months ago. December 1938 - December 2006. RIP.

david moore · #97 10-04-07, 14:09

David (H)
I have a copy of the Ford list and believe the original intention was that it should be widely available. Especially since there seems to be no maintenance of that list and the information was given freely to Peter in the first place, I feel comfortable in passing on the contents.

It is many pages of typescript so I don't quite know how to make it accessible to folks - any ideas? I'm perfectly happy to search and transcribe any particular segments.

Just to give you an idea, there are about 55 entries for the C8A and I would guess about 100 for the C15A!

Since I'm spending quite a lot of time transcribing English parish registers for Somerset (yes, even though I live in Canada) I guess I might as well start transcribing the Ford list if there is enough interest. But filling up this forume might not be the best way? Ideas please.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #98 10-04-07, 15:26

Our family (Haywards) come from Suffolk and (Baker, my mother's) from Devon, but right on the border so it's sometimes Somerset records. Having been through records over the years I empathise.

The easy answer to your dilemma is Xeroxing, and sending them through to me for transcription, although Shane scans his pages in electronically and e mails the scans. I can give you a snail mail address if that helps.

cletrac (RIP) · #99 15-05-07, 04:51

I went to take some pix of that non-vent C8 today and got the serial # and door # too. The serial # is 1364 lower than mine but the door numbers are higher. How would a truck that was made before about Sept 1940 (because of no vents) end up with that high a door number? Both doors are the same numbers too. This truck originally was actually light stone colour.
mine ........... non-vented
53-433 ........ 53-444
..... Z .............. Z
41-1-212 .... 41-1-3392

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**100** 15-05-07, 08:50

Very interesting! My immediate reaction was that perhaps the doors were off another truck on rebuild, and then that perhaps it was held in store pending being issued a Census Number, months after it was built?

cletrac (RIP) · #**101** 17-07-07, 03:06

When I first came across those three F8s that were built on the same day I noticed that the frame on one had been cut on an angle and a different rear section welded on. Since then I've looked at all of them again and they're all cut exactly the same and welded back together. In the pic you can see the weld in behind the cab bracket at about a 45 degree angle. Any ideas on why this would be necessary?

david moore · #**102** 17-07-07, 14:01

David
My F8 has frame welds exactly the same so that is the way they were built. There is a frame doubler or stiffener at around that point.

I've added the door numbers to my data base

david moore · #**103** 17-07-07, 14:17

David
Interesting that the original number (41-1 etc) was applied twice in just over two years. I suspect that the original unit name is there too mixed up with the later style number. The first part of the 1943 style number (53 in this case ) was unit specific I believe so the two trucks that you refer to were likely in the same unit in 1943.
My F8 is 70-286, either the PWOR or the Brockville Rifles I believe.

Mike Kelly · #**104** 17-07-07, 16:18

Quote:

Originally posted by cletrac
When I first came across those three F8s that were built on the same day I noticed that the frame on one had been cut on an angle and a different rear section welded on. Since then I've looked at all of them again and they're all cut exactly the same and welded back together. In the pic you can see the weld in behind the cab bracket at about a 45 degree angle. Any ideas on why this would be necessary?

Maybe the F8 chassis' were made from a longer chassis , already held in stock , these were shortened / cut and then re-joined to the correct F8 wheelbase . Are there any links or clues to a commercial Ford chassis , such as a 1 ton civilian truck of 1940 .....

What a pity we missed out on the F8's here in OZ . At one point, I was considering importing a F8 rolling chassis from Canada . There are enough cabs here , and engines too . I have built a 1A1 body already , for the C8 , so it would be an ideal project ...... twins to stare at .

Mike

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**105** 17-07-07, 17:17

To my knowledge the F15 and above used what would have been 2-ton chassis, gleaned from experience with the 1938 Chevrolets. The F8 used light commercial chassis, around the 3/4-ton mark.

Hanno Spoelstra · #**106** 18-07-07, 11:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike Kelly
Maybe the F8 chassis' were made from a longer chassis , already held in stock , these were shortened / cut and then re-joined to the correct F8 wheelbase . Are there any links or clues to a commercial Ford chassis , such as a 1 ton civilian truck of 1940 .....

Mike,

Sounds like the most logical explanation. CMP's were really assembled from the manufacturer's parts bin, like all succesfull vehicles in WW2.

The Ford Flathead V8 Site listing of Ford's 1940 models gives a choice of a 112" Commercial and 122" ¾ Ton Truck chassis, which could both have been shortened to 101" wheelbase chassis. But I see they also list a 101" 1½ Ton C.O.E. chassis

. The search continues . . .

H.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**107** 18-07-07, 13:53

Yes, the Ford 101" wheelbase was the basis I gather for all the 101" w.b. CMPs, including Chevrolets, as that vital COE/forward control arrangement was the key to providing the cab-foreard arrangement to conform with British WD Spec. 36. The 8-cwt chassis though may have been based thereon but used standard 3/4-ton components.

In 1938 there was no Canadian Ford COE Ford so they had to bring over a Dearborn-built chassis to create the Ford-Scammell FAT. The rest is history!

cletrac (RIP) · #**108** 24-07-07, 08:00

I don't know about the F8 frame but the C8 and the C15 frame from the front end to about the centre of the cab is identical to the civvy 2 ton frame. There's no Ford ionfluence here at all, unless you count the wheelbase.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**109** 24-07-07, 10:15

David, you have it in one! It was Ford of Canada that had a 101" frame, in their COE truck, and in the end when the idea of mixing and matching components between companies failed, each company supplied their own frames. Now, that said, we believe that GM did not produce frames in-house, rather they were bought-in as in the States from frame suppliers. I don't know about Fords..they may have produced their own. I know they had an axle plant in Windsor, that could produce transfer cases whereas GM had McKinnon Industries as a subsidiary to produce theirs. In a nutshell, whomever produced GM's frames used the standard 2-ton COE components and adapated them to the 101" w.b. required.

It was established back in 1938 by Oshawa that 2-ton components were required simply because of the strength required: so that meant Maple Leaf or GMC (as ML was the GMC clone with Chevrolet engines or GMC) and of course COE not Normal Control.

cletrac (RIP) · #**110** 03-08-07, 02:11

I was touring around today and wrote down some data plate info since the battery died on my digital camera.

First is a Cab 11 C15 with no vents:
Chassis # 0842100138
Engine # 2795525

Second is a Cab 13 F60:
Model # F60448-N
Chassis # 39246
Motor # 3G-21223-F
Build date Mar 23-42

I also got another Ford dash gauge cluster out of the remains of a farm truck. It seems that the army truck gauges are always wrecked by being more exposed to the weather from no glass in the doors. This is a picture of my growing collection.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**111** 03-08-07, 06:34

I would like to know whether the "TRIM" section has "TRA" or "TBA" as the engine prefix?

cletrac (RIP) · #**112** 03-08-07, 07:15

David, these trucks are 100 miles away so that little bit of info will have to wait until I get back that way again. I'll let you know when I find it out. I'll make sure the camera battery is charged next time. There's also four F15As there but no data plates.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**113** 03-08-07, 09:57

Cheers! My late fatherin-law loved Saskatoon and in fact the whole area....he was there in the war in the Empire pilots scheme.

cletrac (RIP) · #**114** 23-10-07, 17:32

I posed a bunch of data plate info on this thread:Reynolds vehicles
There's another three Fords made on one day.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #**115** 23-10-07, 18:15

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Cheers! My late fatherin-law loved Saskatoon and in fact the whole area....he was there in the war in the Empire pilots scheme.

.... and now we know why....

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**116** 24-10-07, 00:15

...beer, steaks, flying, girls. Not necessarily in that order! Beer must be first! Fred said that the plains in Regina, Saskatoon, Medicine Hat, Winnipeg, et al were just endless. Vancouver though was a different ball game! Jif can get the drift.

Ken Hughes · #**117** 24-10-07, 08:11

David did you know that you can date the battery gauges on cmps,
1939-reads on gauge L-N-H
1940-reads red-orange-green-red
1941-42 reads red-green-red.
just for interests sake!
the info comes from a Ford Service school Special Army Training Course,from ford motor co of NZ dated 1942

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**118** 24-10-07, 10:13

You learn something new ebery day! Thanks for that Ken!

Colin R · #**119** 03-01-08, 16:35

I've now got round to getting my hands dirty on my C8 and have taken a few photos of the engine bay so I could ask you guys to help ID it.

I must say that I have gained so much info from this and other threads on the forum, and its all much appreciated.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #**120** 03-01-08, 17:07

Note the # 838773 1937-40 216 cylinder head casting number.