Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

I have never been so indecisive with anything as I am with whether or not to assemble the engine myself. There are a couple of areas that I have real doubts about my skills and abilities, and only experience will overcome that. So, after losing considerable sleep last night on that very train of thought, I decided to make a token effort today to attempt one small task that had concerned me. Found my can of valve lapping paste. Grabbed a couple of valves. Read up on the topic in my Flathead V8 rebuilding book, then had a little play.

With both the block and valves being fresh, I only used fine valve lap paste. Sounded a little crunchy initially, but within a little while I was quite amazed how the sound changed to an almost silent, and very smooth rotation of the valve against the seat. I assume when this occurs, you are pretty much done. When I removed each valve I could see that the paste had certainly ground a complete circle where the two surfaces had met. Pushing the valve back in then made a very satisfying 'clink'.

One thing concerns me, and this is something that no rebuild book seems to address. I find that the higher part of each valve (closest to intake manifold) sits ever so slightly proud of the surrounding valve seat. Possibly 1/32" (or less) from flush with block. The lower part is not far from flush. I hope this is correct, and have noted that the valve does sit properly in the seat. Looking at the old engine, I see some valves sit lower against the block, and some are like described above. I am thinking that some of the valves on the old engine may be ground or worn lower than others??? Any way, my great hope is that this is normal.

Having now done a whole TWO valves, it doesn't look to be hard. Asuming that the circumstances I have writren are OK, I will put in an effort to continue and complete all the lapping on Wednesday. Yes, I am numbering each valve, and they are returned to their individual plastic bags once done. I know that 2 valves is bugger all, but I didn't have time for any more today.

The other job that causes some anxiety is the gapping of the piston rings. It sounds to be a wonderful opportunity to piddle away many hours, if you have to gap each one individually. Not going to get too caught up in that until I finish doing the valve work. One stressful event at a time. Have been looking at a number of options with ring grinders. Well, the hand ones anyway. The electric ones look great, but FAR too expensive, considering I don't plan to be using such a tool again. Guess I was a bit green, but it came as a surprise that the rings would even require doing this. I won't be buying any tool until I check to confirm that the rings really do need gapping. Might get to supacheap tomorrow afternoon. They have a 560kg (2000lb) engine stand for $129 at the moment. It looks to be suitable for my needs, and I will need one if I am to make a go of this myself. I had to read back through a number of pages on this thread, to find where Sidevalve engine weight was discussed, so I would know the stand was up to the job. Hadn't realised how boring I am, until I had to read my own posts. Nearly fell asleep!
Attachment 66115
This is the Flathead rebuilding book I am studying. I have found it to be extremely useful, and very easy to read. Lots of detail, and really good illustrations. I have several others, not including the Ford maintenence manual, but this seems to be by far the most detailed. I could highly recommend this book. Especially so for novices like me!

hi Tony

Some time ago I had the hard exhaust valve seat inserts on a series 1 Land Rover ( the seats are in the block ) ground to the correct angles by a engine rebuilder in Warragul. He showed me the gadget he used for checking the valve seat sealing. He used a vacuum hose with a leather or similar pad on the end . With the valves located in their seats , he placed the vacuum pad onto each exhaust port face , where the manifold bolts to. He had a gauge measuring the vacuum , on the vacuum side from memory . Anyway . you could see how effectively the seat was sealing by the amount of air leaking past the seat , this was duly seen on the vacuum gauge

Mike

[Bob McNeill]

TONY I know that you will read the instructions that come with your hone, we normally use kero when honing the bores, only oiled when cleaned and happy with result.

[Private_collector]

That's pretty cool, Mike. Wish I had thought of it.
I admire his quest for perfection.

Regarding Honing
Just ordered a 320 grit Flex Hone of 3.25" size. That is, it can hone up to 3.3" bore, while still having sufficient compression of the hone surfaces to do the job. What really sold me on these is that they indicate their hones are suitable for finishing of a bore where you do not want to go oversize as a consequence of the honing. That, plus the self centering ability of the hone. Also discovered you can use a range of oils with the grit I have chosen, including standard engine oils. Yay! Although grits of 600 (and over if special order) are available, 320 grit is recommended for my application.

Bob, i'm downloading and reading several PDFs relating to use of Flex Hone, right now :-)

[Lynn Eades]

Just as important as any other aspect of the task is the cross hatch pattern. A 60 degree cross hatch is required. This is achieved by the combination of the speed of the drill (hone driver) and your up and down movement of the hone.
Did your new block come with pistons (I forget what you did) or are you sizing the bores to suit the pistons? I would recommend you have it done proffessionally. The piston to bore clearance is very important to a long (engine) life, as is cleanliness. A thorough wash out with hot soapy water after the hone, so that white rags show no marks,then dried and liberally oiled straight away. Along with absolute cleanliness, there is a lot to get right. Much money invested so far. Consider carefully.
If you have to size the bores, the "sheep dag" hone is not the hone to use. It is however good to finish the surface of the bore

[Tony Wheeler]

I'm not quite following here. Why does the block need honing? It's a brand new block, it should already be hone finished to 3.1875 inch. That's what the pistons are designed for, they should fit straight in. Clearance should only be about 1 thou, they'll be sloppy if the bores are honed out further.

If the bores need resizing for some reason, then it should definitely be done professionally as Lynn says. However I don't see why it would be necessary.

[Private_collector]

Block does not need resizing. I am simply doing a final finish to apply the cross hatching better than it is right now. I dont consider it sufficient at present. With the grade of the hone and time spent in each cylinder, nothing will be made 'sloppy'. This is confirmed by the manufacturers information, and advice from 2x mechanics who have inspected the block is that the final hatching has not been done on the cylinders. I believe this was left for the person doing the assembly, rather that at time of manufacture or machining.

The link I posted yesterday will show the specific info on the hone grade I have purchased. Also, a number of youtube videos on its use confirm my use is appropriate. I will give no more than 10 seconds total in each cylinder.

[Tony Wheeler]

Very interesting Tony. I wonder if it has anything to do with being a military block, which would be going through Army workshops. Or is this standard practice for all new blocks purchased bare? I've only ever fitted rebored blocks, and they've always been finished to spec. The only time I've used a hone is for ring jobs, to deglaze the bores and remove the lip. Afterwards I check the piston clearance to make sure it's still acceptable.

It's quite good fun I think you'll find, although if you have an old block it would be worth practicing on, to get the 60 degree pattern Lynn mentioned. Look forward to more pics as the job proceeds.

[Lynn Eades]

Yes, Tony.W., I would recommend a practice. (sheep dag hones are great! They make any bore look good)
Pistons in a set, are not always the same size. In a factory assembly situation the standard pistons used to be graded for size (and or weight) so that an engine might end up with a set about the same. Hopefully the pistons in your set, have been graded (I would expect them to be these days) I would though, measure them.
Tony you will no doubt be setting up a financial relationship with an engine reconditioner for at least the sizing of your gudgeon (con rod) bushes, I am sure you can pick up some expert guidance from him/her (you never know) at the same time.

[Private_collector]

Why on earth would I need someone to mess with the con rods & piston pins?

New pistons, new pins, new con rods with bushes insitu.

Following the test shown in factory maintenence manual, everything fits perfectly.

Fully expect to call for help with some task or another, but wouldn't have thought they should need to muck around with parts which fit properly already.

Funny, for a job that anyone is supposed to be able to do, sure sounds like a lot of things the experts are needed for.

[Lynn Eades]

Tony, You obviously have all the bases covered. Good luck with assembling your engine.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Funny, for a job that anyone is supposed to be able to do, sure sounds like a lot of things the experts are needed for.

Yes, but you're rapidly becoming an expert yourself Tony!

[Private_collector]

While searching ebay for a couple of bits, I cam across this Chevrolet truck.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1948-GMC-...22e2b8b&_uhb=1

I think this is about the coolest vintage vehicle I have ever seen!!!
If only I were rich. Should have listened to Mother when I was young.

[Dinty]

I remember many years ago watching an American TV production about 2 characters, they drove a GMC COE type truck, I tried google but couldn't find it.
There was one similar at the 'Kurri Nostalgia' festival this year, cheers Dennis

[Lynn Eades]

I thought you were a Ford man?

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Dinty

I remember many years ago watching an American TV production about 2 characters, they drove a GMC COE type truck, I tried google but couldn't find it.
There was one similar at the 'Kurri Nostalgia' festival this year, cheers Dennis

G'day Dinty,

There was a show that was named after the nickname for the GMC COE called "Cannonball"

Is this the show you remember Dinty? Here is a YouTube clip of it ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSLoZzJ-7kc It seems to be part 1 & 2 of episode one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK_3hXBIAX4 It screened in 1958 ... Before my time Here is what Wikipedia mentions about the series Accessed 28th of June 2014 from, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannonball_%28series%29

Here are a couple of links of Lindsey Crawford's 1954 GMC COE. The first one talks about the restoration of the truck. Part 2 features it motoring stately down the highway within inside shots of the cabin in action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtG6c2TdAts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnBE-cKePOQ

Here is a YouTube clip of someone working through the gears. Rileydog362's notes state that it has a Detroit 6 cylinder inline 2 cycle diesel engine - transmission is 10 speed road ranger. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geLkrg1HFTk Rileydog362 features numerous clips of his truck in action.

All clips accessed off YouTube on 28th of June 2014. One sweet sounding engine!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[cliff]

there is a 1939 Ford Cab Over cab and chassis for sale at the Hot Rod place near the Bruce highway end of Brisbane Road Tony. It looks neat and rare as hens teeth I think.

[Private_collector]

Hello Cliff,

Yeah, I have seen that COE cab. Does look worthy of a restoration. I have seen a photo of it in Restored Cars magazine, when it was for sale at a swap meet. I know it was sold, so I guess it was bought by our local rev head, Paul (the Gympie shop owner). Figuring he bought it for resale, he would be working on the stock market principle.......buy low, sell high. He does get some interesting vehicles there. I an actually curious about how much that cab is. Might give him a call through the week, if curiousity gets the better of me. If I remember correctly, the one in Gympie has a shorter snout that the ones Lynn posted photos of.

There is something very attractive about COE vehicles. The Ford ones are nice, but at the risk of dooming the world to kaos, I do believe the Chevrolet ones catch my eye more. Saw a photo of one which was a petrol tanker, and loved em ever since.

While i'm thinking of it, those modern 5th wheeler type trailers that you see elderly folk galavanting aroun in, do you need a special licence for those? Guess what I really want to understand is, at what point does a vehicle become an articulated truck which you need a truck licence for? I would give serious thought to making the CMP into an articulated vehicle if there was any way around needing another licence to drive it.

Lapped in more valves this afternoon, after cleaning up the workshop. Went into town this morning for bolts to attach the engine to newly purchased stand. Only found Grade 5 bolts, so it's not attached until I can find some G8s. From memory, they are 3/8". Not very sturdy looking when you are holding a heavy engine to a stand with only 4 of the damn things. Still, they must do the job, I guess. Typical, I have stacks of G5 bolts, but when I want a few G8s nobody has em!

[hrpearce]

Tony once the gross vehicle mass exceeds 4.5 ton you need a higher class licence.

[Private_collector]

So as long as the trailer is made entirely of carbon fibre, with aluminium wheels and thin walled tyres inflated with helium......I should be OK. Unless I put on any weight myself!

[lynx42]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Hello Cliff,

Yeah, I have seen that COE cab. Does look worthy of a restoration. I have seen a photo of it in Restored Cars magazine, when I was for sale at a swap meet.

While i'm thinking of it, those modern 5th wheeler type trailers that you see elderly folk galavanting around in, do you need a special licence for those? Guess what I really want to understand is, at what point does a vehicle become an articulated truck which you need a truck licence for? I would give serious thought to making the CMP into an articulated vehicle if there was any way around needing another licence to drive it.

(1st paragraph)Did you get any offers?? (haha!)

But seriously in answer to the next paragraph.

A vehicle towing a trailer or being classified as an articulated vehicle is wholly assessed by the placement of the towing pin. A Semi-trailer or articulated vehicle has the towing pin IN FRONT of the centre of the back axle or the centre of the combinations of axles. The trailer tow pin is BEHIND the axle and providing the rig does not go over the 4.5 tonnes GVM no combination license is required. Have a look at the placement on the next 5th wheeler you see.

Regards Rick.

[Private_collector]

No Rick, no offers. Probably because condition was poor. Many parts were worn to the point of needing full reconditioning. Just not worth the effort required to return to good running condition.

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

No Rick, no offers. Probably because condition was poor. Many parts were worn to the point of needing full reconditioning. Just not worth the effort required to return to good running condition.

Hello Tony,

Could you please confirm what had "no offers because it was in poor condition"? I must have missed something!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[David Dunlop]

Wow! Those COE photos sure bring back memories!

Back in the 1950's the local Winnipeg Transit Company used to run a fleet of wreckers for their buses and the wreckers were all COE cab and chassis rigs (make unknown), with the same Holmes Wrecker Twin Boom bodies on them as the wartime Diamond T's used to run. As a kid, I was always fascinated by the look of the cabs and all the tools and kit stowed on the bodies. They were painted orange and banana cream.

A local creamery around the same time (Crescent Creamery) also used to have a fleet of delivery trucks in Winnipeg for home delivery of dairy products, and they were all COE vehicles. I ran across several surviving rigs in the 1970's in a surplus yard north of Winnipeg, full of M38 jeep canvas. You could still read the Crescent Creamery logo on the sides of the bodies with their catch phrase: "You can whip our cream, but you can't beat our butter!".

David

Sorry for putting this mainline thread on a temporary siding.

[Private_collector]

Thursday, my latest shipment of parts arrived from the USA. Small things mostly like temperature senders, oil pressure sender, thermostats, several springs, assorted bolt sets, bendix spring & associated hardware, and some minor electrical pieces including temp cross over wires, etc, etc...

Got the engine off my trolley and placed it on the stand I bought a couple of weeks ago. I had initially considered it to be sitting too high, and had concerns about stability, but it has worked out well. Any lower and I would quickly brew a bad back! Still remains stable too. Incidentally, the engine doesn't really hang down like it looks in the photo. Just an artifact of the angle I took photo from.

First actual engine work was to hone the cylinder walls. They only got 7 passes of the 320 grit hone, over 4-5 seconds. As a fellow member suggested, I did some practice runs on the old engine block. Had some difficulty in finding a bore which was not rusted to the extent that it may have damaged the honing tool. After a number of test runs I cleaned the hone well and moved onto the good block. For lubrication I used light air tool oil. Had a good quantity on hand, and would submerge the honing tool into the oil and pull it out while it revolved, attached to the cordless drill. I'm pleased with the finished result. Cleanup was interesting. Very strange feeling to soap up such an expensive piece of bare metal, no matter what the reason, it just doesn't feel right. Came up nicely, and after a thorough drying, copious amounts of oil added, again.

Next job was to lap the remaining valves. That was fairly quick, so I installed the cam temporarily and kicked off with the adjustment of lifters. Decision between solid and adjustable lifters was made for me, because the cam I am using has been ground for.......'street' use. Adjusting the Johnson lifters is a PIG of a job. I am minus several portions of skin as a testament to that fact. No swear words were uttered, although they were thought! Even with the correct lifter adjustment tools, and a 7/16 open ended spanner I ground considerably thinner than originally intended, still a painfully slow process. After I had taken the above photo, I did one more set to completion. That brought the total finished so far to 5 sets. I hope to christ they don't re-adjust themselves during operation. Not aware of any instances of this occuring, and certainly don't wish to be the first. Thought about putting a dob of threadlocker on each. Don't know that would be a good idea. Does that stuff still work in the heat of an engines internals?

I do believe I am getting quicker / better at doing the lifter adjusting, so the remaining 12 sets shouldn't take anywhere near the time I piddled away this afternoon.

[Private_collector]

After the post about engine work, I wrote another 2 times. Both those were regarding a maintenence manual I had bought. Now I see both those posts have disappeared. Also, the second of the missing posts was after another page was created. Now the new page (page 47) has gone too.

Whats goin on here fellas????

Is somebody playing silly buggers?

Moderators, I would to know whats happened

[Keith Webb]

Nobody playing silly buggers this end Tony - perhaps Hanno has a clue about why these went missing.

I've been enjoying your progress!

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Private_collector View Post
No Rick, no offers. Probably because condition was poor. Many parts were worn to the point of needing full reconditioning. Just not worth the effort required to return to good running condition.

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

Hello Tony,

Could you please confirm what had "no offers because it was in poor condition"? I must have missed something!

Kind Regards
Lionel

G'day Tony,

Just wondering if you went back through your thread and found the message I sent you earlier? I have included it above this one.

You may have replied earlier and it might have been one of your disappearing messages!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

After the post about engine work, I wrote another 2 times. Both those were regarding a maintenence manual I had bought. Now I see both those posts have disappeared. Also, the second of the missing posts was after another page was created. Now the new page (page 47) has gone too.

Whats goin on here fellas????

Is somebody playing silly buggers?

Moderators, I would to know whats happened

Hi Tony,

First I merged your posts on the Fox manual and deleted one picture which you had attached inadvertently. I then thought to split it off to its own thread in the armour section, so chances increase you will get an answer. From experience I know chances are slim to getting an answer when it is buried in a thread on another subject. All in a day's work of the general housekeeping duties of a volunteer moderator

Regard,
Hanno

[Euan McDonald]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Hi Tony,

First I merged your posts on the Fox manual and deleted one picture which you had attached inadvertently. I then thought to split it off to its own thread in the armour section, so chances increase you will get an answer. From experience I know chances are slim to getting an answer when it is buried in a thread on another subject. All in a day's work of the general housekeeping duties of a volunteer moderator

Regard,
Hanno

Nice work Hanno, your right it does make a difference .

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Decision between solid and adjustable lifters was made for me, because the cam I am using has been ground for.......'street' use. Adjusting the Johnson lifters is a PIG of a job. I am minus several portions of skin as a testament to that fact.

Tony, do you have specs on the street grind? I'm interested to see what they're using these days. It's a good idea IMO, the stock cam is way too conservative.

I've noticed all the flathead gurus mention difficulties adjusting lifters, mainly to do with the gadgets that stop the lifter turning. They recommend drilling a 3/16" hole into the bore and using a pin punch instead.

Nice job on the bores BTW, and very interesting to see. That's the other advantage of rebuilding the motor yourself - we all get to see!