Under New Management

[Bill Murray]

Thank you Hanno:
That info will be a very valuable addition to my references on "beute" vehicles.

Unfortunately, you exposed once again, my ever slipping mind.

The subject I should have referenced was vehicles that were requisitioned, in Germany and it's allies and vehicles that were confiscated in the occupied countries.

In this context, I meant for the most part, civilian cars and trucks.

Just as a quick snapshot, vehicles that were requisitioned in Germany and mainly sent to the East, kept their civilian registration for as much as a year at least. I have a theory, developing on two other bulletin boards, that the German authorities had all intentions of returning the vehicles to the original owners as we have evidence of official papers being given to the owners when the vehicle was requisitioned. This based on Hitler's belief that Russia would collapse within six months or so.

Vehicles confiscated in occupied/conquered countries were almost immediately stripped of their civilian registrations and issued military registration plates. I suspect there was no thought of returning said vehicles to their original owners.

Next, it seems the vehicles confiscated by the WH were robust cars and trucks such as American Chev and Ford, French Renault
and Citroen and so on.

WL vehicles tended to be more the upper middle and luxury marques from several countries and most likely less suited for front line duties.

Vehicles used by the WM seem to be almost all luxury vehicles such as Packard, Lincoln and Cadillac and similar vehicles from France. I assume this is because such vehicles would have been pretty useless in the front line environment.

The exception to my theory is that luxury Mercedes, Horch and almost every other high line German vehicle can be found in photos taken in the East. I can only assume that this was a "patriotic" thing. No political statement but maybe if it was of German origin it was by definition capable of operating anywhere.

Bill

[Jan Mostek]

I am sorry, here is the psomissed picture of Steyr 1500A from Domazlice, Czechoslovakia.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Captured British Airborne Jeep in Holland.

[Jan Mostek]

Russians ahve always loved German bikes, and the "half-bike" is not a exception. This Kettenkrad appeared in Prague, May 9th. 1945. Note the two sizes of openings on the outer road wheels.

Happy searching Jan.

[Rolf S. Ask]

That photo of the catured jeep shows that the star we found on our Willys is not a "one time happening".
Also notice that the step is not removed, but just bent down on the captured jeep...
Our jeep also once belonged to the Red Devils, and landed in Norway may 45.

Rolf

BTW: Anyone having any photo or drawing on the spare wheel arrangement in front?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by cmpnorge
BTW: Anyone having any photo or drawing on the spare wheel arrangement in front?

Rolf, the following book should have the info you are looking for:
British Airborne Jeeps: Modifications and Markings 1942-1945. Monica Baan and Rob van Meel ISBN 90-76221-01-4

H.

Originally posted by Jan Mostek
Russians ahve always loved German bikes, and the "half-bike" is not a exception. This Kettenkrad appeared in Prague, May 9th. 1945. Note the two sizes of openings on the outer road wheels.

Ah, it has a combination of early and late pattern road wheels, common enough as one or more has been replaced at some time during service and/or as a replacement for a failed wheel.

R.

[Rolf S. Ask]

Thank you Hanno.
Will check it out to see if I can get a copy.

Rolf

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Reportedly, this is a CMP truck captured on Crete (personally I think it is a pillage by CMP collectors ).

Census number seems to read 4443599. Can anyone confirm?

H.

Source: 044# Orig. Foto Beute Fahrzeug auf Kreta / Ebay item number: 170019235410

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The last part of the number appears to be '3599' to me. I checked my database and could not place it as either a Chevrolet of Ford. I suggest from the number that this was a Mid-East theatre-assembled # 11 Cab ...could it have been a #12 that late? Could it be an early F15?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Could it be an early F15?

I'm sure it's a 30-cwt truck, not sure about Chev, Ford, 11 or 12 Cab. Where are the experts?

If you blow up the picture you can clearly read 44, third digit is either a 1 or a 4, so the complete number reads 4443599 or 4413599.

H.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I think it is in fact L 4413599...Mid-East theatre census number and the nearest known numbers are for F30 lorries to S/M 2003, 1500 of which were shipped to Alexandria... so # 11 Cab probably. I cannot at this juncture reconcile it as being a Chevrolet.

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
I'm sure it's a 30-cwt truck, not sure about Chev, Ford, 11 or 12 Cab. Where are the experts?

If you blow up the picture you can clearly read 44, third digit is either a 1 or a 4, so the complete number reads 4443599 or 4413599.

All the key identifiers are invisible. All I can add is to tell those nice Germans to "GET YOUR THIEVING HANDS OFF IT!"

[Pete Ashby]

Hanno

I think it's a F30 GS 11 or may be 12, look at the castellated rear hub casting, naughty Friz,

still could have been worse it could have been a Chev :dh:

Pete

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

still could have been worse it could have been a Chev

[Les Freathy]

A couple of interesting photos showing captured German equipment. The first is a complete Bergepanther loade onto a Diamond T and Rojers 40 ton trailer, would this be the one that came to the UK fot evaluation.

[Les Freathy]

The Western Desert and a German semitrack tows a train of captured Italian tanks, i look at this photo and still cannot make up my mind if the semi track is a 5 ton or 8 ton the angle of the photo is decieving
Les

Originally posted by Les Freathy
The Western Desert and a German semitrack tows a train of captured Italian tanks, i look at this photo and still cannot make up my mind if the semi track is a 5 ton or 8 ton the angle of the photo is decieving
Les

12 Ton, Sd.Kfz.8 Les.

R.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Vehicles confiscated in occupied/conquered countries were almost immediately stripped of their civilian registrations and issued military registration plates. I suspect there was no thought of returning said vehicles to their original owners.

Next, it seems the vehicles confiscated by the WH were robust cars and trucks such as American Chev and Ford, French Renault and Citroen and so on.

Bill, there is not a lot I can add to your research, other than this photo which I found on anpfotoarchief.nl. It shows trucks being bought (requisitioned?) by the German authorities. June 1940, Amsterdam, Holland.

beeldnummer 66546
beelddatum 03-06-1940
beschrijving NLD-400603-AMSTERDAM: Drukte op de Amstelveenscheweg met vrachtwagens die door de Duitse autoriteiten worden ingekocht.
ANPFOTO/J.D. NOSKE

[servicepub (RIP)]

Courtesy Library and Archives Canada, two images of a captured Sherman, used by the Germans and retrieved at war's end by the Canadians. Note the shell penetration in the turret.

[Bill Murray]

I picked this off of ebay a while ago.
Very odd combination of sort of a Dutch/Belgian Chev with military type wheels/tyres but a sort of umbau body and obviously hacked at the top of the cowl.
Any ideas???
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Very odd combination of sort of a Dutch/Belgian Chev with military type wheels/tyres but a sort of umbau body and obviously hacked at the top of the cowl.
Any ideas???

I'd say a PAG trekker, Bill.

Hanno

[Bill Murray]

"Trooper, have you taken your stupid pills today?"
"Sir yes sir, in fact a double dose sir".
Thanks Hanno, my friend, I fear that only having two days off from the store since 20 November has taken it's toll.

I fully intend to take the better part of a week off after this weekend and all of the Christmas gift returns we have to endure so I can get my head screwed on straight again and I can make some coherent posts.

Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Is that a 1937 Model COE Chevrolet second in line? The '37 Models were the first overseas COE Chevs, although they were available in Canada, some time (two years?) before the US...see bottom of:

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...1931to1938.htm

Note the pix don't work but I might have found them.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Note the "BULLDOG MODEL"!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Thanks Hanno, my friend, I fear that only having two days off from the store since 20 November has taken it's toll.

I was not surprised to see you do this at this time of year, pal. Not a problem, was happy you posted that pic, as it was a new one to me.

Enjoy your holidays IF you get them . . .

H.

[Bill Murray]

Hi David:
You are probably correct.
The US Chev COE did not appear until 1939 but it was done overseas a couple of years earlier.
This may be another case of International Badge Engineering, whereby US and other producers rebadged various vehicles to fit their marketing strategy in overseas markets.
At first take, I would have called it a GMC but that name was not promoted so heavily in Europe.
In any case a very well received photo, at least on my part.
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

GMC introduced their first COE in 1935 I think, and by 1937 were offering a COE Chevrolet and Oldsmobile version of the same basic truck variants, for export only. They were probably all sourced from Pontiac, Michigan, and even the Olds had "GMC" pedals! The difference was in the engines: Chev COE or Hercules Diesel, or Oldsmobile 224 in the GMC and Chev, with a mixture of Chev and/or Saginaw axles, and Chev gearboxes. Oshawa also produced their first COE trucks in 1937 as Maple Leafs or GMCs, plus a COE School Bus chassis available as a Chev or GMC. However in the States there were one or two companies that did conversions for Chevrolet, so I suppose that there was no perceived demand until Ford offered their own COE trucks in 1938 [their introduction by Dearborn enabled Windsor to create the CMP design interestingly].

[Lang]

Opel bus used by Australian Salvage Unit in the Middle East

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Looks like an 8W bus chassis...lots were imported into the UK in 1938, and into 1939 as they were powerful, and cheap!