Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Both Mike and I found no evidence of any modification to the chassis length. No join, no non standard welding, nothing. That is very curious. Mike enquired about what sort of rear body I was contemplating. I'm still not 100% sure, but had given thought to a turntable, based on the 115" wheelbase it is now. In the absence of any visible mods, is it possible the chassis may actually BE one of those tractors???

Tony,

I do not have a clear picture at hand, but the Ford chassis in particular has a clear taper from the mid-section running to the front and from the mid-section running to the rear.

If the chassis was shortened by sectioning, there would be evidence of welding which you say there is not.

I have seen another option to shorten a F60L with 158" wb. chassis: on this they moved the rear axle forwards and lobbed off the remainder of the chassis. This requires no "cutting and shutting" and does not leave any visible mods, other than that the chassis looses much (if not most) of the tapering to the rear end.

So by measuring the frame side rail height at appropriate places you should be able to determine is this a genuine 115" wb chassis - see what we did on Chevrolet chassis in the thread Chev CMP chassis views.

HTH,
Hanno

[Mike Cecil]

Hi Hanno and Tony,

Great afternoon talking 'green stuff' Tony, thank you!

First, I should say I'm not familiar with the finer points of the 115 inch WB chassis, so both Tony and I were working from that point on Wednesday.

What I observed was:
(1) no weld marks to indicate a 'cut and weld' shortening of the chassis, and no bolt holes to indicate that the spring hangers had simply been moved forward. Without knowing the finer points, it certainly looked like an original uncut chassis to me.
(2) no chassis number on the top of the right hand chassis rail, as per Ford Australia practice. The absence of a chassis number in that position is a pretty good indication that the truck was not assembled in Australia from imported and local components.
(3) the cab that came with the truck is an Australian assembled cab: both the rear and roof sections are Aust manufactured, and the floor is 1/4 inch Aust chequer plate, ie a 'standard' Aussie assembled Ford cab.
(4) the 115 inch wheel base seems too much of a coincidence for a farmer-shortened chassis.

So I'll be very interested in comparing images of Tony's chassis rails with those of an original 115 inch WB chassis, so if someone has one, some side images would be appreciated by both Tony and me, to do a comparison.

Mike

[Private_collector]

Taper at rear of the chassis starts roughly 2/3 to 3/4 back from the front spring hanger of rear spring. As it is, the top of rear spring hanger sits closer to top of rail, because of the amount of taper present. If the rear axle was located even further back originally, both front and rear hangers would be attached to an even shallower height of chassis, if taper continued. It would have been much further back too. As Mike has said, there is no visible set of holes that matches those of a former spring hanger location. If I'm right (will check today), the rear axle, if chassis was originally longer, must have been further back than the full lenght of the spring, or another set of holes would be evident....wouldn't it?

[cliff]

here is a Chassis diagram labelled as being the F60T. Note trailer brake hose to rear.

Hopefully this will help

[cliff]

Tony what are the series of holes in the top Chassis rail over the rear axle for?

I believe the Australian fifth wheel setup had a series of bolts along the edges of the mounting plate rather then the 'U' bolt setup of the Canadian F60T.

If these are what the holes are for then maybe it is an F60T but fitted with an Aussie fifth wheel?

[Private_collector]

I have no idea what those holes are for, Cliff.

In fact, the more I learn about this vehicle, the more I am aware that I don't know.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Tony,

Can you make detail pictures and do some measurements as per the Chev chassis views thread listed above? That would help a lot in determining the exact type.

Did you ever come across any part numbers stamped on the chassis rails?

Hanno

[Private_collector]

Unfortunately Hanno, there are no markings or numbers on any part of the chassis.

Yes, I can take measurements. Anything in particular you would like me to focus on?

[Tony Wheeler]

Sorry folks but it's just a shortened F60L chassis. As Hanno suggests it's been done by moving the axle forward and chopping off the excess rear chassis. Simplest and tidiest way to move the axle forward is to move the rear spring hanger to the front spring hanger position (they use the same rivet pattern on Fords) and move the front spring hanger forward correspondingly. This results in a wheelbase close to 115" which tends to play tricks with the mind! As Mike says - "the 115 inch wheel base seems too much of a coincidence for a farmer-shortened chassis." Of course, once you're familiar with this mod it's easy to detect the numerous inconsistencies resulting. For example, the triangular rivet pattern for the overload spring stops located curiously BEHIND the rear spring hanger!

[Private_collector]

Thanks Tony,

That settles that question. I knew somebody would be able to make a definitive call.
Kind of a shame, but at least I don't feel guilty about removing the extra spring packs, and replacing the back 15-16" of rails. I think the person who did the chassis shortening would be honoured that his work was only able to be picked by chassis holes!

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Tony,

Sorry to hear your F60T is actually a cut down F60L. Still, you have lots of the donkey work done so it would not be too hard to change direction a little bit should you so wish.

I found out the hard way many years ago that Blitzes are not always what they appear. I bought a second "very original" F15A soon after I bought the first cab chassis as I thought my first one was missing too many items to be a good starting point. Sadly, after I bought it and had a good crawl under it, I realized I had bought a dodgied up F15 converted (poorly) to a F15A. The giveaways were the transfer case crossmember was bolted to the chassis and not riveted, the transmission crossmember was the F15 type, and the front engine crossmember was arched out via a gas axe for front diff clearance to simulate a 4 x 4 chassis.

I changed direction by restoring the first F15A chassis which luckily was in very good shape and transferred many of the items from the dodgied up F15 one onto it. It actually worked out fairly well as it did give up the GS body, spare tyre carrier, and many other bits that were missing from the first one so all was not lost- other than paying perhaps too much for the second one!

So whichever way you go, moving forward you can be very proud of the good work you have already put into it and all the great knowledge you have picked up along the way.

Cheers,

[Private_collector]

Oh well, it was exciting while it lasted.

Amidst all the uncertainty and disappointment, I managed to recover from depression long enough to make another two brackets for the gun shield. At least I know it's original, albeit my original fake!

Next will be the brackets x2 for the telescope case.

Speaking of depression, Bryce returns to Bandiana next Sunday, and we are planning to cancel his shuttle pickup from Sunshine Coast so we can take him to Brisbane airport ourselves. That way we steal another couple of hours with him. While here, he successfully obtained his motorbike licence. Whoopdy do, and blast. I an NOT keen on him riding a bike. Seen too many of the 'after' scenarios from collisions, but he's an adult now and has to lead his life his own way........I guess. I can't talk. I had 2 bikes myself. 1x BSA bantam, and 1x Honda NSR-R. One wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, and the other wretched thing, a 2-stroke, tried to kill me every time I rode it. Evil thing it was.

[Zbyszko Kruszona]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Yes, like a standard CMP with the fishplates.

Here's the cover of the handbook:

Hi,
I finish a project related to Ford F60T. I have a problem with attachment to the trailer. I do not have any drawings or pictures that show it would be mount. I ask you for help. Maybe in this book are some drawings.
By the way I do not have the original tanks. Can You tell me the something about dimensions? Maybe it is in this book ...
Best Regards
Zbyszko
P.S. It,s my Ford

[Private_collector]

These are the only photos I have, but you would need to have the turntable confirmed as correct / original. Never seen one in real life.

[Zbyszko Kruszona]

Thank You for this information. Do you have this book or contact Keith Webb.
Maybe he's still the book ...
Regards
Zbyszko

[Richard Farrant]

Hi Tony,
Here is an Aussie Chev Blitz and semi-trailer that was at Corowa in 2013. Sorry no photo of 5th wheel arrangement.

regards, Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

These are the only photos I have, but you would need to have the turntable confirmed as correct / original. Never seen one in real life.

See your pic in post #499:



And the thread F60T info wanted:

[Private_collector]

Thanks Hanno! There are a lot of older photos i lost when a previous tablet went west without warning. That's one of em. Didn't know about that thread either, but will look through it now.

[Private_collector]

With the weather finally cooling down, it shouldn't be too long before I resume work on the engine. It should come along fairly quickly.

What I really wanted to write about here, was an incident which unfolded weekend before last. I had driven the truck into town, to do some work at my Mothers place, and on the trip home I had some significant misfortune. My Father was an excellent driver for most of his life (except last 6 mths), and had instilled in me his mantra of plan for events before they occur. This way of thinking literally saved my life a handful of years ago, when a modern vehicle (nearly new) I was driving had a malfunction of the throttle electronics and continued to gather speed after overtaking, to the point where I stopped looking at the speedo around 155km/h. Long story short, I'm still here thanks to Fathers philosophy. He had passed away several years prior, and I couldn't thank him, unfortunately.

Now back to recent weekend. I'm travelling home from town, on the Bruce hwy, which is really quite narrow in places. Not to mention uneven surface, and frequent potholing. In the heat of summer, you can see the tar melting in places, and a quick look under the sills of your car confirms where it has gone to. As such, the road surfacein hot weather is rather conducive to holding foreign objects, whereas it may otherwise allow them to be flicked to the side. I suspect the surface type and 'stickyness' on the day, contributed to my misfortune. I'm always mindful of holding up traffic, putting along in the truck at around 85-90km/h, so make a rule of taking an alternative back road to/from town, which allows me to avoid the highway for perhaps 40% of the total trip distance. That road is Harvey Siding Rd. It has a number of poor quality concrete paved causeways, and in order to maintain sufficient speed to climb the rises after each one, I hit them at speed sufficiently enough to bounce me clean out of my seat. I'm used to it, and always try to find the least subsided portion of the worst sections. Sometimes I have more success than others, and on the day I thought I did quite well in that regard. Having turned from Harvey Siding onto the highway, I made as much speed as possible, because there is a sweeping curve where highway traffic would come up behind me very quickly before they can see im even there. After 30 to 60 seconds highway travel, I begin to feel something unusual occuring. My truck is diesel, and the symphony of noise is ever present, but I notice an almost imperceptible change in sound. While processing this in my mind, I then begin to notice another bizarre change. The steering has a very slight wander, over and above the norm. I'm now on a recently repaved section of road that, while newly replaced, leaves me with nowhere to go in case of emergency, due to the 45 degree slant of terrain beyond the road edges. With the wander slowly worsening, I begin to look for next available place to come to a safe stop, while simultaneously working though in my mind exactly what the hell is happening. I now feel very vulnerable, in a vehicle with no safety systems beyond the crude lap-belt seatbelt.....which I begin tightening with one hand. My first consideration, having never had this experience before, was 'I wonder if I have broken a spring end' that is now obvious at the 'higher' speed of highway travel. In the following 10 seconds I would become completely aware of the true nature of my dilema. The truck is now 'steering' from both front AND the rear. Every slight correction in steering is met with an equal and opposite correction from rear end of the vehicle, making directional stability a fading memory. By this time I no longer have consideration for traffic behind me, and am slowing down as quickly as possible. At this point, I also check the seatbelt another time, mentally picturing the truck taking to the ditch at speeds, and it's not an image I encourage as reality. With around 200-300mtrs travel still between the now slewing vehicle and a side road where I can safely stop, it all comes to a crescendo. The right rear tyre rapidly completes it's now obvious deflation, and I have resolution to the "what the..." question. I'm now down to around 35-40km/h, though I must say that is only a guess, as I have other, more pressing, things to worry about than looking at the speedo. The noise of a tyre turning, totally bereft of pressure, is very disconcerting. In other words, it's a dreadful noise, and not a overly settling physical feeling either.

I'm now at full stop, safely off the highway, but close enough still to feel the rush of air with each heavy vehicle that screams past. I disembark gingerly, to examine the damage. One very flat tyre, right rear side. No problem, I have a spare, a jack, and spanners. I curse the trucks previous owner, who engineered the retaining assembly of the rear-of-cab mounted spare tyre, to the extent that it would remain securely in place following a direct nuclear strike. Finally I remove the tyre. It is one of those that nobody else (including me) seems able to install on the type of rim it is clearly seated to. I take little time to wonder about this, because it's a VERY warm day, I'm 20 minutes from home, and I just want this journey to be over. I remove the bottle jack from the cab, and get my toolbox out from one of the many lockable storage compartments on the rear body. It's at this point that I discover I do not have the correct size spanner for the wheel nuts. With a new appreciation for mobile telephones, I phone my Wife to come retrieve me. She doesn't answer, and I have a mental image of her mowing the lawn, which would later prove to have been the case. In disgust, I leave a message for her, and formulate another plan. I phone our next door neighbour, who promptly answers but is not actually at home. She is, in fact, almost 2000km from home, in Darwin, Northern Territory. She phones her housemate, who IS at home, and that lady manages to catch my Wifes attention. Mrs B then rings me, and begins the drive to come to my rescue. I accompany her home, thoroughly enjoying the airconditioning during the trip, and get more appropriate tools and my trolley jack. The bottle jack could have proven to be fatal, as the road surface the truck is on has a significant camber, and the pumping handle was only very short. This would have meant I needed to be UNDER the truck to pump it up. STUFF THAT! Besides, I would have been fried by the road surface heat itself.

My Wife and I return to the truck, and I have no trouble undoing the wheel nuts. It is obvious that previous owner had applied a type of anti-cease to each one. God bless him. I remove the flat tyre, and install the spare. Wheel nuts finger tightened, I lower the vehicle. Then I see a sight which makes my heart sink. The spare tyre........is half flat! Having planned for this possibility, thanks to Dads teachings, I had checked that my 12 volt air compressor was in the boot of the car BEFORE we left home for the return to the truck. With a certain 'take that, universe' smugness, I open the compressors carry case, and have yet another sinking feeling. A vital part of the compressor is missing, having been removed, by me, for use with another compressor of same type, to inflate the tyres on my ride-on mower........several weeks prior. It had completely slipped my mind to return it from whence it came. After sending Mrs B home again, to get the missing part, I settle into the cab for the 45-50 minute round trip waiting period. With the vital part now available, the tyre is inflated and I finally get home. The journey that SHOULD have taken 40min, has now taken almost three and a half hours.

I won't dare drive the truck without a spare, and will arrange that as soon as possible. The original tyre may be salvagable. It's copped a whacking, but didn't come apart, so i'll get it inspected. The silver lining, if there is one, is that the spare tyre tread pattern really does look good. I just need another four of them onto rims, and they will look grand.

Foot Note: The truck now has a greatly improved quantity of suitable tools, safely secured in one of the rear lockers. Tomorrow, I hope to purchase another compressor, especially for keeping in the truck.

Apologies for any spelling mistakes in the above ramblings. It's late. I'm tired. And I'm too lazy to proof read anything tonight. Buenos noches!

[Lionelgee]

Hello Tony,

It is good to see you posting about the truck again. Unfortunately it was not a triumphant account.

It is great that you got out of it okay and that you safely negotiated your way off the road. There are stuff all places along the Bruce Highway to get off the road in your neck of the woods too.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Keith Webb]

Great story Tony! I've not had a tyre deflate while driving in a CMP - it's alarming to hear how it affects the steering though.

Well told, and I hope others read this to benefit from your experience and the learnings from your father.

[Private_collector]

Yes folks, a rapid deflation is a scary thing, and the truck was rather difficult to maintain directional stability. However, I'm very grateful the tyre didn't blow apart instead of just go flat. I fear that would have been much, much worse to control.

I had forgotten to say I found the cause of the flat. A round disk approx 1 & 1/2" across, bent in such a way that would rival a caltrop. I'm hoping the tyre damage is repairable. Wouldn't put money on that.

[lynx42]

Glad it all came out ok in the end, Tony.

Jill and I had a heart starter blow-out in the right rear tyre on the White Scout Car with a large 1 ton "Humber" trailer attached a few years ago on our way to Canberra for the 60th anniversary of the end of WWII. We were travelling at 55 miles an hour down a steep hill on a left hand bend near Eden NSW. when the tyre blew. We were in a cutting with a bank on each side, higher on the left, and a narrow two way strip of bitumen. I really had to hang on and luckily didn't cross over the white line at any time with traffic coming up towards us. I tow the "Humber' trailer which has White Scout Car wheels fitted with the spare tyre for the Scout Car and trailer mounted on the "A" frame and it is also fitted with get me home bits as well as being a camper for us. Unlike you, we couldn't get off the road and had to change it out on the bitumen with the traffic passing close by. (Jill just added "and the log trucks and wood chip semis heading into Eden").

The biggest problem after changing the tyre was trying to get the now flat tyre back up onto the 'A' frame. Fortunately a truck driver stopped up the road and walked back to assist. There are still some good people in this world.

I don't know how many swerves we did in pulling up but it was pretty scary for a while, the Scout Car had an evil mind of its own..

It is not the first time we have had a scare in an old vehicle. We have a 1923 20hp. Rolls Royce with two wheel brakes on the rear axle only. We had a blow out one day and threw the tyre right off the rim which left us with only one wheel out of four pulling up a 2 ton car and a bare rim sliding down the road. The split rig on the wheel took off and took us about 2 1/2 hours to find, but we did eventually find it on the other side of the road to where we were looking and about 200 metres away.



Drive safe out the folks and be prepared for the unexpected.

Regards Rick.


This is the trailer on the White:

[Ian Johns]

This one is the only one I have seen. Post war they strapped a wrecker on top of the fifth wheel for some reason. I found this in a old boat yard.

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by lynx42

This is the trailer on the White.

Attachment 80225

regards Rick.

I don't fancy ANY blowout, let alone that heavy thing, beautiful though it is.
Someone needs to invent a foam 'run flat' material you can spray into the tube.

[Private_collector]

Since the tyre incident I haven't driven my grey truck much. With the miserable failure of fitting any of my NDT tyres to the CMP wheels, I have been looking for modern replacements. I have now been to every single tyre business in town, and any that don't do heavy haulage vehicles just say they can't help and send me to the truck places. Long story short, NONE of the tyre businesses have access to any tyres that will fit my wheels. Not entirely true. One place did find a single Firestone tyre that would have been good, but they were $740.00 each. He suggested I ring Antique Tyres, after finding they have 9.00 x 16" NDTs, but warned me they would probably still be expensive. Around $400 to $450 he guessed. I wish he was right, because when I rang them they quoted $550 each,........and those were out of stock for another 8 weeks until the boat arrives from USA. Oh , and then there's cartage from the supplier to me. Probably another couple of hundred or so. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON! It's a serious possibility that these vehicles could be put off the road in the not too distant future, simply because you can't get affordable tyres to run them on. One place today, told me nobody makes an effort to buy in anything other than the most commonly used tyres, because that's where the bulk of their customers are. He also said a majority of well known brands are now made in china anyway. Well thats lovely, isn't it. Looks like I won't be potting too many miles on the clock in foreseeable future. Bloody ridiculous.

[Mrs Vampire]

9X16" is that the same as 25pdr?? I brought a set delivered to Auburn for $600 bucks
from Qld supplier

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Since the tyre incident I haven't driven my grey truck much. With the miserable failure of fitting any of my NDT tyres to the CMP wheels, I have been looking for modern replacements. I have now been to every single tyre business in town, and any that don't do heavy haulage vehicles just say they can't help and send me to the truck places. Long story short, NONE of the tyre businesses have access to any tyres that will fit my wheels. Not entirely true. One place did find a single Firestone tyre that would have been good, but they were $740.00 each. He suggested I ring Antique Tyres, after finding they have 9.00 x 16" NDTs, but warned me they would probably still be expensive. Around $400 to $450 he guessed. I wish he was right, because when I rang them they quoted $550 each,........and those were out of stock for another 8 weeks until the boat arrives from USA. Oh , and then there's cartage from the supplier to me. Probably another couple of hundred or so. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON! It's a serious possibility that these vehicles could be put off the road in the not too distant future, simply because you can't get affordable tyres to run them on. One place today, told me nobody makes an effort to buy in anything other than the most commonly used tyres, because that's where the bulk of their customers are. He also said a majority of well known brands are now made in china anyway. Well thats lovely, isn't it. Looks like I won't be potting too many miles on the clock in foreseeable future. Bloody ridiculous.

Have you tried the MRF dealer in Dubbo ? He imports from India .

[Mrs Vampire]

I think this is where I got them . $290 each


http://www.milspares.com.au/Catalog15-16Web.pdf

[Private_collector]

Thanks Gina & Mike!

Those are both good leads, and I will follow them up tomorrow.

As far as I know, they are the same as 25pdr.

I suspect the Indian ones may be the same ones that are already on the truck, and could have come from the same source. I'll look into that also.

I appreciate your help, folks! Once again MLU to the rescue.