Richie's Mk1 Restoration - Page 8

eddy8men · #**211** 29-11-11, 17:46

very nice workshop set up you've got yourself there richie and now the carriers home you can try and justify the outlay for it

all the best

rick

ps. how do you make a small fortune from ww2 armour ? start off with a large one.

kevin powles · #**212** 29-11-11, 19:31

Rich, Did you get any funny looks from the neigbours?. Wont be long before they start deciding if they like the idea of loud hammering or not, You can always sound proof the garage, cellotex is good for this.

Use liquid metal on the dash if your not happy with the way it is.

Only 8 months now til war and peace, it's the big carrier get together this year, did you get those wheels?.

Kevin.

Stew Robertson · #**213** 30-11-11, 00:07

Just a little hint on your drum removal
If you have heating bud for your cutting torch take it and warm your drum up and it will seperate the drum from the shoe
wait about an hour or so until it cools back to room temerature then just heat up the outer ring of the drum for a few minutes - it will expand enough to pull the drum off the shoe THE DRUM WILL BE HOT SO USE GLOVES
Lots of luck
Stew

Ron Pier · #**214** 30-11-11, 08:35

I can see the neighbour's curtains twitching from here....and the nearby motorist you've already upset by keeping him waiting for 30 seconds. Good luck Rich!
I always feel sorry for guys who haven't got the room to keep their toys at home. It makes all the difference to your hobby. Ron

RichardT10829 · #**215** 30-11-11, 16:15

That was actually a mate but yes loads of people started driving into the street.... Kevin i contacted the chap in Sunderland who removed the auction said the wheels were stolen from his garden so alas no joy there.

RichardT10829 · #**216** 02-01-12, 20:26

Well after being berated by Shaun for lack of update i thought i should best pop something up ! my project has been very slow in the making, between 2009 and 2011 i have had many personal hurdles to leap over.... now that things have settled down i can once again focus on getting the carrier sorted..

yesterday evening and tonight has seen the first propper attention on the carrier for a long time... i have been trying to get the cam plate out and have managed to undo the 9/16th bolts just trying to get the ruddy thing to part from the axle !

whilst working inside the hull i decided i would strip everything out... i was going to leave the gear linkage unit in as it appeared to be free and working... what a job i had ! two hours to get it out, it appears it was rotted to the hull ! after some grunting and wheezing it finally gave up and released from the hull !

i will clean these up tomorrow and rebuild them

on the armour front i have gone around and countersunk all the holes that needed to be... i have also offered my new pintle mounts (ahh thankyou Ben) to the armour and drilled the plate to match the pintles... she is all ready for buttoning up.. i have to pick up a gun being borrowed from a very kind chap from www.bluebirdproject.com so Lynn i will post up pics of it as soon as i get it... i am off for ten days after next week so i hope to press on and get her buttoned up in this time....so pics / vids and updates will follow.

Cheers

Richie

RichardT10829 · #**217** 03-01-12, 14:48

well another day in the garage passes (as its soon time to get the kids) i have managed to rebuild the linkage, and i am glad i did ! what a mess it was inside. stripping it down was a pig, but then again anything on a carrier is a pest when it has not been serviced since 1945 !

firstly i broke apart everything i could without damaging it, when you pull the rod out the cylinder loads of balls drop out this is because there is a bearing inside... after collecting all the balls i noticed the cylinder had an end cap which was seized / rusted on so i plonked the cylinder into a tub of Hydrofluoric acid and went to work on the other stuff

the rod was the easy bit just some elbow grease and a wire brush was needed...followed up by some five knuckle shuffle over it with 800grit the rod is pitted but will still be usable

next was the two end cap type bearing blocks.. you can see the lower one is baddly pitted but again still servicable at the moment, this was cleaned down with wirebrush the oil gallery channels in the centres were cleaned out of rust and the whole unit was cleaned and dried then the grease nipple popped back in

i plodded on with other stuff for a few hours then returned to remove the cylinder from its bath, after being pursuaded a wee bit, it came apart and i could remove the race from inside...both the race and the balls are on their last legs but i should get some use out of them for a while.... the inside of the cylinder was cleaned then the race and balls were popped back in with a smattering of grease, cap put back on and the rod housed back in its place.... then i packed the whole thing full of grease using the grease nipple... the unit is like silk now i am glad i have done it !! i primered it then painted it ready to go back into my hull.

next i continued with my armour, i missed a few holes which needed countersunk

RichardT10829 · #**218** 03-01-12, 14:53

then i moved onto putting the top rails onto the side armour so more drilling required... i had pre drilled the armour from a plan i had from a pal..so offered the rail up to the inside then clamped it down and drilled through

i sat for ages looking at close ups of the rails on Mk1* carriers and noticed they have been moved inside and out over the years....flush with the top of the armour....slightly lower than the top of the armour.... so after an hour of Vol.1 i bit the bullet and went flush...on the inside.

whislt there i could not resist popping Bens pintle onto the side

finally to finish the day i welded in the angle bar that runs over the centre bulkhead behind the drivers head....it has been offered up for ages but not welded in.... i still need to drill the holes for it though.

eddy8men · #**219** 03-01-12, 21:20

looking good mate

ajmac · #**220** 04-01-12, 13:19

After 18 months I've almost got the front axle brackets bolted in place, I think it is the same level of achievement NOT

Yours is looking very smart Richie, what are those mag base drills like to use, how do you make fine adjustments to location?

shaun · #**221** 04-01-12, 15:20

now thats a nice workshop door ! whats it like working with some space around you mate.

RichardT10829 · #**222** 04-01-12, 16:49

awesome ! i like being able to put my hands onto my tool.....s without scratting about (so many inuendo's its scary)

the mag drill is excelent and a good buy for the would be carrier rebuilder.. it can be cumbersome to hold in situ but what I do is dial the drill bit down so its flush with the work surface then line the drill bit up with the spot and switch on the magnet.. you can do similar with a centre pin facility. the drill comes with standard chuck as pictured and rotabroach style (with oiler) can cut up to 25mm (dia) holes and it goes through the 10mm steel like butter and is ideal for doing the countersinking (as you can centre the drill on the hole then change out the bits) struggles to stick on the thinner steel but all the armour is a sinch to it.

RichardT10829 · #**223** 04-01-12, 22:18

ok this is for Lynn... I picked up the rivet gun tonight from Bill.... it is a 4x goose neck gun which should be up to the task... i have set rivets with a smaller gun but struggled... this thing although small weighs a fair bit...

the snaps are readily available... i have worked out that a 5/8 brazier / truss / liverpool head snap is the way to go... based on the theory that the rivet head when formed is just shy of 16mm diameter.

Lynn Eades · #**224** 05-01-12, 10:48

Here is what I have been using. My gun has a 1 1/16" dia. piston, with a 4 inch stroke. We have made up the various tools to get into the akward places in the carrier.

RichardT10829 · #**225** 05-01-12, 12:21

Hahahaha we have started something here...with sharpie's

slightly bigger than mine... where did you get the snaps. did your gun struggle or did it fire them in with ease ?

cheers

Richie

Lynn Eades · #**226** 05-01-12, 20:54

Without the benefit of trying others, I would guess it to be about the right size. I/ we have made up all the tooling (snaps) It will easily smear the rivetlike warm butter if not held square on. We made the long stuff so we could get into the corners without changing the angle too much. We certaintly need some mass on the back side of the plate. Experimentation is required as there are lots of variables.
We started with 12mm of rivet sticking out past the plate, and have upped it to 15mm(this makes it harder for the guy on the gun) this is for countersunk holes (like at the bottom of the hull side plate, to the floor.

My holes are two drill sizes bigger than 3/8". we grind a small bevel on each rivet.

I was hoping the two pens were similar. It is my gun that is bigger. (no other comments!)

RichardT10829 · #**227** 05-01-12, 21:15

so did you just use a lathe to bore out the correct shape in the snap ?

Ben · #**228** 05-01-12, 22:14

When I spoke to the chap who did Shuans riveting, he said you can turn any shape you need but they need to be hardened otherwise the constant heat and hammering deforms them.

Ben

RichardT10829 · #**229** 05-01-12, 22:56

so what steel would you recommend for the snap... ? high carbon i might go get a blank and turn one out... the snaps available for the gun i have only go up to 3/8 and i need 5/8. i did a cold test on a rivet tonight with the snap i have (3/8 brazier) and it was peening the rivet over all be it only slightly... this was with the compressor half charged and only 40 psi at the reg (so i was somewhat impressed) i should think it will squash a hot rivet ok.

Lynn Eades · #**230** 06-01-12, 01:40

I have used 4140. It work hardens. I used steel from broken shafts that were so hard, at the break, that a ceramic tip wouldnt put a mark on them.
I made mine on the lathe and finished them off with a die grinder. (my formal lathe training was mostly while the metalwork teacher wasn't looking at school)
The small one, with the handle was rolled into place behind the rivet head to do the ones going through the engine bed rails into the floor. (we are yet to do the second one) We have done them with the carrier on its side, introducing a dolly behind the handled thing.(on the outside of the bed rail)
If you are planning this operation, look for a friend who is an insect, or even better a spider. If you ask your wife, she might point you in the direction of one of her ex boyfriends.
Anyhow the point is, they need extra arms/hands etc.
We have cut the rivets to length for each set of rivets. I heat a rivet, pick it up with pliers, and poke it into the hole. My friend with the gun pulls it in while I position the dolly. I yell "ready" or "go" (this is optional. I'm sure Richard, that you will have some weird local alternative)
With that heavy dolly arrangement in the photo, I get it behind the rivet,get my knee behind my elbow, and my foot against the inside of the hull on the opposite side. It works good that way.
Try not to put rivets in the bolt holes for the bogie adjusting studs. They look good, but slows your progress down.

Stew Robertson · #**231** 06-01-12, 15:04

Hey guts you don't have to heat the rivets they will peen in cold
Just a little experience talkin :

Lynn Eades · #**232** 06-01-12, 20:09

The hot rivet is firstly spread laterally in the hole to take up any discrepancies, the head and tail are then formed, and then as the rivet cools it shrinks tightening the whole deal up. If your going to put them in cold, you may as well use a bolt. According to one web site, "A bolt is just a low grade rivet"
And no! my gun (as big as it is) wouldn't form them cold.

RichardT10829 · #**233** 06-01-12, 23:43

Lynn they will be put in hot, i was just interested to see what it would do to a cold rivet

RichardT10829 · #**234** 08-01-12, 18:50

Well another few hours in the garage tonight with Jnr. managed to pull the glacis plate and offer up one repro fender.... i have used the original sand guards to form a datum when offering up the new fenders to drill them.. the original sand guards and the original fenders are in a bad way, bud salvageable so will get restored when the carrier is done and kept as spares.

Now to the glacis plate you will notice that the missing top section is being "Pieced" back in.. the question on most minds would be "why not make this from one new bit and weld it in ?" well i have off-cuts of original 5mm steel from the division plate, which i kept back to re introduce back onto the carrier all be it in a different place... i suppose a romantic notion that i want to retain as much original fabric that i can. when its done it will look like it never left the carrier. I suppose it could be argued that i should not have removed it from the remains of the division plate in the first place, hind sight is...yes your right but at the time i did the division plate i was less confident of offering the new steel up to the original stuff, it was easier for me to use the track guards as a datum and run fresh steel above that line.....

i still have some countersinking to do on the front but the bit snapped tonight so will need to get another this week.

eddy8men · #**235** 08-01-12, 23:22

keep it as original as you can

rick

Stew Robertson · #**236** 09-01-12, 15:09

When a rivet is put in hot it will shrink when it cools, but a rivet is a rivet
Just figure out the torque presure on a nut and bolt then figure out the torque pressure on a hammered rivet no comparrison. The bolt wins
there is a good chance when Ford manufactured the carrier the rivets where not put in one at a time there for eliminating time and man power

Now I am just stirring the pot

RichardT10829 · #**237** 09-01-12, 15:26

the lower hull was built in two halves... the rear then the front was joined together the front and rear were then joined up (the seam is in line with the division plate).... they then put the top armour on... there are images of women with rivet guns finishing hulls off rivet by rivet......... ;-)

ajmac · #**238** 09-01-12, 20:10

Lets face it Rivets are so 19th century! Welding rules, british industry just wasn't forward thinking, the T16 showed the way and in the end the UC was welded too. From a restoration point of view rivets do offer an easier route, putting new armour on a welded carrier and having the welds look factory would be more difficult I imagine.

shaun · #**239** 09-01-12, 20:34

I believe im right in saying universal carriers were being weld at the same time as riveting production was going on - it was decided to keep riveting the majority of carrier production rather than welding as it would have created to much down time for retooling the factories.

Riveting can produce a far far tighter clamping affect for the size of rivet than bolts, hence there use on boilers, ships etc.

All of the above is "in my opinion" as some one will now blow my comments out of the water !

And boy do i wish the welded universals, the would be so much easier to rebuild !!!!!!!!!!

Richie so glad you are doing the rivets properly.

RichardT10829 · #**240** 09-01-12, 21:35

Yeah i was thinking that today although a harder job....its worth while.... !

AJ (IMHO) welding would be a breeze in comparison to Riveting however it all depends on what you find easy and what you find hard i guess. If it had been a welding job i could have had the hull back together years ago.