Restoration of Hull 731- Carrier, MG (Aust) Mortar Carrying

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Darrin, The best I can find is a Lockheed part number, #260 It is for a 1 1/4" Master cylinder Bedford J1, J2, Should be same for a Dodge WC (WWII 4x4, T214 ) Go to an old brake specialist. They should have old PBR catalogues etc. with pictures.
These used to be very common. Let us know how you get on. Good luck!

[motto]

Looks very much like a master cylinder boot to me. PBR would have had a fine selection of them at one time.

David

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Darrin Wright

I am a bit puzzled with several things with this vehicle. 2. The camouflage markings, it is painted khaki green but there are large traces of red/brown camo and black with a sand/white line to separate the black from the green.

Some of the early carriers featured 3-tone camo which I assume to be one of the Jan '42 schemes:

2. Mechanization Circular No. 301 2nd. January, 1942. Mechanical Vehicles- Camouflage Disruptive Painting.

Approval to paint all mechanical vehicles in disruptive camouflage.

Basic colour of vehicles for use in Australia is Khaki Green No. 3

One coat only of disruptive paint is to be applied, either by brush or spray, on top of the basic colour, in either the following three-tone or two-tone designs. All edges are to be kept sharp, it may be necessary to paint the boundary between two colours to obtain sharp definition.

The colour combinations employed:

Three-Tone
1. Light Stone N. Light Brown P. Khaki Green J.
2. Light Green H. Khaki Green J. Black U.
3. Light Stone N. Light Green H. Khaki Green J.
4. Light Stone N. Khaki Green J. Dark Green M.
5. Light Stone N. Light Brown P. Basalt Red S.*

Two-Tone
6. Light Stone N. Khaki Green J.*
7. Light Brown P. Khaki Green J.*

The colour combination selected should approximate to the colours of the country in which it is expected the vehicle will operate.

- For Australian Coastal areas use Sets No. 2, 3, 4, or 6
- For Australian Central and Northern Areas use Set No.5 or 7
- Set No.1 will merge under almost any circumstances.


The presence of black indicates Set No.2 while the presence of red/brown indicates Set No.5 which suggests this carrier was re-camouflaged in the field upon relocating from Coastal to Central/Northern Australia. The sand/white line may be an artifact resulting from this change or perhaps misinterpretation of instructions. Following pics show correct application of 3-tone pattern.

[Darrin Wright]

Thanks Tony for posting that info, I think I may have seen it before but you have now given it some clarity and put it into perspective/relevance.
That would explain the differences as they belong to different time periods and different locations. I did not think that the LP1 would have got around that much, being manufactured in late 1940 and disposed of mid 1943.
Differnet units and locations may have given it a different look.

Thanks Lynn, that was just the lead I needed to source some boots. I now have a fine pair of boots to use in location. The local brake place had some clutch slave cylinder boots, Lockheed 1778, Made in England for $5ea. The fit is good at the hull 1 3/4", and a little big at the rod end where it should be 3/4". The length is about right, but may be a little short on the extension; however, since it will only be in the compression action I do not see it being a problem. It will function correctly and keep the mud/dust out as much as possible.

A very productive weekend, met a BGC owner passing through on a weekend away, talked and exchanged info for several hours.

My machined items arrived during the week, so these were bronze welded to the brake rods, installed NOS return springs and washers. Still have to be painted green.

A minor job that I had been putting off, was to cut and modify the choke & throttle cables to suit so that the ball ends were in the right place. I suspect that the cables were all made to the same length and, when installed, were cut to the correct lengths.
When cut to the correct length, my wife and I then bronzed the end fittings into place. Managed to finish the throttle linkage and start the choke linkage.

I also had all the materials at hand to manufacture the front seats, so commenced this. One problem that I had was the left seat lower bracket, where this bracket engages in the lower tabs was also where they tested the hardness of the armour. This meant that the lower bracket had to be bent to allow for the bulge in the armour (see attached pic).

[Darrin Wright]

With all the materials at hand I made the front seats.

I have used a high density 1" foam with 12mm ply as the back rest section.

Foam and board was cut to the dimensions in the parts book.

The off-set of the back board & armoured cover was calculated from a pic that Euan sent me and the installation of all the items.

Used coach head bolts as per the parts book.

I also had to drill a hole/recess in the ply for the radiator upper support stay/rod that protrudes through the hull bulkhead.

Assembled it all into position loose and when happy removed it from the hull and tightened it. Just have to bronze up the UNC wing nuts I have (they are old style with the mickey mouse ears) and re-thread them with a UNF thread to suit the upper studs.

The bottom seat cushions have been made, dimensions as per the parts book, with medium density foam that is 2" thick.

The vinyl is named "olive" from an Australian manufacturer called Warwick. Blends in with the khaki green paint. I did overestimate the amount of vinyl that I required and now have approx. 3m left over. In time this will re-cover the seats when worn out or damaged.

[Darrin Wright]

As discussed in a thread on seats by Dale, it is important to not make the front seat cushion back rest too thick as this will hinder the operation and access to the drivers tool box.

See pic, this is something that I had neglected until raised in that thread- Thanks.

This thickness will be firm on my back but should give me space to move my arms and turn the steering wheel without too much effort and cracking my elbow on the hull corner.

[Lynn Eades]

Darrin, I thought those 1778 would be too big, so I picked the smaller one of that type (the 260) If it helps anyone the 1778 Lockheed boot was the boot from the tandem master cylinders as fitted to the three, four, and five ton Bedfords (like an RL)
The hole in the ply probably helps let air in and out.

[Darrin Wright]

Saturday afternoon my wife suggested that we go for a bike ride with the kids, so with the Murray River very low, we decided to go to the causeway between Albury & Wodonga.
Excellent opportunity to check out a number of BGC that were buried many years ago.
Had to hack a path through the black berries and trees
I have known about these vehicles for 26 years and have acquired several parts along the way. back then I counted 12-17 BGC. Now due to tree growth, erosion I counted 5.
Most are LP2 or LP2A, but there was a 2 pdr AT. There is a LP1 (see pic).

The kids enjoyed the adventure, my wife not as much....won't be going for a bike ride there again....

[Darrin Wright]

Apart from bike riding I did do a little work in the shed, got my 2 boys down to assist.
Cut and welded the cable end fitting on to the choke cable, fitted the cable correctly and tightened all the bolts.
These end fittings came from Mac's Auto and are for a dual carby set up, I just cut it in 1/2 and drilled the rods to suit the cable wire. One fitting is a left thread, but that is not a problem.

Also commenced the installation and drilling of holes in the rear shelf for the stowage boxes.
Working from the left, managed to get the 2 left boxes drilled and bolted into position and the large box location drilled. It still requires several coats of paint.

Installed the left front seat to the floor.

[Keith Webb]

Any hull numbers on these Darrin?

And please post more pics! Big ones!!

Originally Posted by Darrin Wright

Saturday afternoon my wife suggested that we go for a bike ride with the kids, so with the Murray River very low, we decided to go to the causeway between Albury & Wodonga.
Excellent opportunity to check out a number of BGC that were buried many years ago.
Had to hack a path through the black berries and trees
I have known about these vehicles for 26 years and have acquired several parts along the way. back then I counted 12-17 BGC. Now due to tree growth, erosion I counted 5.
Most are LP2 or LP2A, but there was a 2 pdr AT. There is a LP1 (see pic).

The kids enjoyed the adventure, my wife not as much....won't be going for a bike ride there again....

[Luke R]

Originally Posted by Darrin Wright

Saturday afternoon my wife suggested that we go for a bike ride with the kids, so with the Murray River very low, we decided to go to the causeway between Albury & Wodonga.
Excellent opportunity to check out a number of BGC that were buried many years ago.
Had to hack a path through the black berries and trees
I have known about these vehicles for 26 years and have acquired several parts along the way. back then I counted 12-17 BGC. Now due to tree growth, erosion I counted 5.
Most are LP2 or LP2A, but there was a 2 pdr AT. There is a LP1 (see pic).

The kids enjoyed the adventure, my wife not as much....won't be going for a bike ride there again....

So when will you be digging out the LP1 Darrin

[Darrin Wright]

These hulls are usually under 3-4 m of water; however, when the river is low and you know where to go, you get to see them.

I was told that they were bought from Bandiana after the war by either the SEC, Baker Motors or a truck wreckers in Wodonga. When they had been stripped they were taken to the river bank to stabilise the bank from erosion.

The willows have grown up and around them, in some cases the trees have pulled the hulls apart.
water and rust have also eaten them up, at times trees have fallen on them or they have been hit by logs floating down stream.
The mainly complete exposed hull had an air scoop in it, but a tree and rust have removed it.
The 2 pdr AT hull has either sunk into the river bed or been washed/dragged down stream.
Some of the other hulls are now so overgrown that they have disappeared into the river bank.
The armour of the LP1 has cracked and is very rusted.
All the hulls have been stripped, so data plates are gone and the rear of the hulls is down in the water and overgrown. Rust has had a big effect on these.
I have managed to salvage some parts from them over the years, but they are only good to use as patterns.
The hull under the tree (log in front) was dragged out from the river many years ago, how and by whom I do not know. It has been used as a incinerator and rubbish skip in the last few years. But the steel in places is laminating off with rust.

Just an interesting piece of local history that gave me an excuse for a bike ride.

[jack neville]

So the bank needed stabilising and someone thought of using some scrapped carriers as re-enforcing. Amazing how some peoples minds think. Reminds me of a loading ramp I heard of in Victoria somewhere made of No.27 limbers. Someone got a stack of just the boxes and formed them into a U shape. The inside was filled with dirt making the ramp.

Didn't see it, just heard the story.

Good idea for a new thread. 'Interesting things ex military vehicles/equipment have been transferred in to.'

[Darrin Wright]

Well it has been awhile since I have been on MLU, getting side-tracked with a new career.

Last weekend (Fathers Day) we took the Jeep out for a picnic down to some waterfalls. Loaded the trailer with all the necessary items and went driving. Let the boys go gold panning, still poor....
Probably did about 120km for the day, checked out some camp sites and antique shops in some local towns.
Have done some minor jobs on the BGC. More to follow...

[Darrin Wright]

The other weekend I commenced stripping the spare parts (junk) hull of all useable parts with the oxy acetylene torch.
Managed to salvage the steering box and column, steering cam plate, steering cam, conduit, bogie suspension units, some vision cover parts and started to cut the back off the hull for the rear diff.
That is when I ran out of oxy....another weekend with more gas.

Then will load it up with all my scrap steel and get it taken to the scrap dealers. That will tidy up the yard and workshop a bit.

[Darrin Wright]

have installed the front gunners/passengers seat into the hull and fitted the seat adjuster/locking rails.

The parts manual list an earth strap to be fitted in the engine bay, pictures are vague as to where it goes. Reading the workshop manual is not much help, but I did see what appears to be a cable in the LHR of the engine area. So I have fitted a copper braided earth strap from a rear sump bolt to the bolt that secures the oil pressure valve bracket. This should reduce poor earthing problems, also the rear engine stabiliser rods should create an earth as well.

[Lynn Eades]

Back to the rubber boot on the brake control rods:
It makes sense that if Henry Ford supplied all the parts to build the carriers, that he also supplied the boot. This would make the part number 91T-2180.

[The Bedford Boys]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Back to the rubber boot on the brake control rods:
It makes sense that if Henry Ford supplied all the parts to build the carriers, that he also supplied the boot. This would make the part number 91T-2180.

I bought some 91T-2180 boots with that idea in mind. When they arrived I discovered they were too short.

[Lynn Eades]

So Alex were they correct, or a poor repro? It is not hard to find pictures of what they did look like.
Do you doubt my logic?
Can you go over and log your age in on the survey too please and while you're there put up a few words from a young blokes perspective. Ta.

[The Bedford Boys]

They came from Ajays and were NOS, in the nice original little ford box and everything.

I don't doubt your logic Lynn, I too figured the rest of the stuff was Ford gear so why wouldn't the boots be. They could still be Ford, just not the 91T-2180.

[Darrin Wright]

Have been busy of late and not posted much progress; however, I have managed to work on the BGC and find other things of interest.
Now to continue on with this story.

The other weekend went out for a drive following up on a lead on BGC parts, went to a farm Nth of Albury and found a M3 Grant, several BGC road wheels and 1000s of 25 pdr limber trays.

The M3 was converted to a dozer and used around Hay NSW and then moved down for dam work. Fitted with a 9 cyl radial, still painted in a 2 tone green pattern, had the blue drab USE W-???? ad T-26051 ARN on side.

The farm had 1000s of ammo trays and had used them to construct all the shedding on the farm. By welding them together in a staggered pattern they constructed the beams and uprights for sheds. There were many left over in the scrap heap, and we managed to purchase 16 of the best that were left.

Managed to buy 2 BGC road wheels, but they were expensive as the farmer still saw a use for them.

[Darrin Wright]

Also on the same weekend as finding the Grant, we wrecked this BGC dozer for the diff, tracks and wheels.
This is for another BGC owners project.

Many old cars on the property, but this was the 1st items that the owner had sold in many years. Some of the vehicles were 1920 to 1930 cars/trucks, late 1930s GMC panel van, first series Land Rover (missing engine), Porsche 928, International Scout, Chev Bel Air 1960s. And a lot of junk.

[jack neville]

Originally Posted by Darrin Wright

Have been busy of late and not posted much progress; however, I have managed to work on the BGC and find other things of interest.
Now to continue on with this story.

The other weekend went out for a drive following up on a lead on BGC parts, went to a farm Nth of Albury and found a M3 Grant, several BGC road wheels and 1000s of 25 pdr limber trays.

The M3 was converted to a dozer and used around Hay NSW and then moved down for dam work. Fitted with a 9 cyl radial, still painted in a 2 tone green pattern, had the blue drab USE W-???? ad T-26051 ARN on side.

The farm had 1000s of ammo trays and had used them to construct all the shedding on the farm. By welding them together in a staggered pattern they constructed the beams and uprights for sheds. There were many left over in the scrap heap, and we managed to purchase 16 of the best that were left.

Managed to buy 2 BGC road wheels, but they were expensive as the farmer still saw a use for them.

Did you get any photos of the cockys construction methods with the ammo trays Darrin? That is more interesting than anything. I love seeing what some people have done with army surplus over the years. Especially the clever people who could see value in what was considered junk. (A bit like us restorers of modern times perhaps!)

[Darrin Wright]

I have started the slow process of cleaning and freeing up the tracks.

I cut down a chemical pallet to form a large tub, then filled it with citric acid (swimming pool de-rusting & cleaning powder) and water. The instructions stated 100g of powder to 10 000Lt of water. So in went 1,25kg of powder to 120Lt of water. Instructions are a guide only.

This has allowed the tracks to soak and the rust has disappeared.
Pulled the roll of track out and pressure cleaned it to remove rust scale and sediment, turned the roll over and placed it back in.

Back breaking work rolling and un rolling track.

After several days soaking it was laid out again, pressure cleaned and allowed to dry.
After 3 days of drying in the sun, I then coated it with a kill-rust paint in matt black.
I have 2 NOS track links to join the roll back together, making 176 links for one side.

The other side of track is now soaking.

[Darrin Wright]

Have been busy working on the bogie suspension units, stripping them down, getting them sandblasted, undercoat & green. Everything is in very good condition and free.

Then the rewarding task is to assemble them onto the hull, then install the road wheels; otherwise they are too heavy to move. Required the muscle of a friend to assist with this task.

Have installed new bearings into the smaller return wheel, as those bearings were worn. The main bearings in the road wheels faired better, and nearly all have been re-used.

The right suspension unit is now mounted to the hull.

I have installed the 5 spoke 'C' spoke wheel, dated 1941, into its original position. Installed new seals and repacked all the hubs with grease, also installed new grease nipples and bleeders (where fitted as this was a modification mid war).

Nearly ready to install the left suspension unit.

[Darrin Wright]

Some time ago I had new fuel tanks manufactured, this week I salvaged the old fuel tank drain fittings from the wreck and sand blasted them.
They came up really good, so with those and the other fittings I started to rivet them into the tanks.
Utilised old style cold rivets that I have collected over time.

See the pics for progress.

The only item I require is to have 2 steel rings cut for the mount for the fuel pick up fittings; and will look at getting them cut during the week.

[Darrin Wright]

Sad, but the wreck had to go.
Only after all items that I and friends could salvage from it.

It is now off to China via Sims Metals....

Wife is happy that we have the driveway back again.

[Lynn Eades]

Darrin, do you take the day off for Bathurst today?

[Darrin Wright]

Lynn,
this weekend the family went off on a scout activity, so I have been left to my own devices.
Without the kids wanting the TV, I have watched most of the race, painted the toilet room and mowed some lawn.
Have also managed some work on the BGC and will post some pics up soon.

[Darrin Wright]

With the suspension on, no reason for it to sit up on jack stands any longer. So onto the ground it went (finally).
Pics show general progress.

Have also worked on the rear pioneer tool shelf/diff cover and manufactured and installed all the 5/16 UNF threaded rods for the mounting of tools. Installed correct wing nuts and clamps.
Have mounted the tools on to see how it looks and goes together. There is quite a variation with tools, so it is what fits the best goes on.

Also installed the threaded rods onto the left outer hull tool storage area, but need more wing nuts.