Pier 21-Halifax,Nova Scotia-1st Div

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

I was watching the Bush visit to Pier 21 in Halifax.I do know through family that the the first contingent of the First Division left by train in December 1939 for Halifax and the second contingent left in January 1940 for Halifax to sail for England.Do any of our historians on the thread have any factual information as to whether they left from Pier 21 ??

Garry the first contingent of the 1st Division sailed from Halifax about 6-7 December 1939 and arrived in Scotland Christmas Day. The Toronto Scotish were with this group and were the first complete Canadian unit to arrive in Britain.
The 48th left Toronto by train 17 December 1939 and arrived in Halifax to begin boarding immediately. The ship sat arround Bedford Basin for three days before sailing and arrived at Greenock 30 December 1939.

http://www.pier21.ca/Virtual_Wall_of_Service.299.0.html


http://dileas.mapleleafup.org/

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

My uncle Steve Williams from 1RCHA out of Kingston left on the December sailing,& my dad was on the second sailing in January 1940.You two were probably on the same ship out of Halifax.My question is "Did you guys sail out of Pier 21??

Gary according to the web site I quoted virtually all Canadian troops sailed from Pier 21. I was not among them but from interviews I have conducted it was an ideal location to load troops as the trains could come alongside the ship and board directly.
Two 48th Highlanders and at least one Bombadier from the RCHA have memorial bricks at the pier.

Hello Art,

Enjoyed reading your messages to Gary Shipton

What I was wondering was...my Dad fought in WW2 with the Canadian Army, he was from Prince Edward Island and he met this very pretty lady while stationed in England, they then got married :love: and that is how I came to be

Would he have left from Pier 21? most likely he did, so much I wish I still knew, silly things such as the name of the ship which carried him and the the other boys to England/Scotland .

And I just bet somewhere in a dusty drawer or maybe dusty computer there would be the answer , yes it feels like that sometimes

Hilary or Maria
whatever

[Norm Cromie (RIP)]

Gary:
Here is a little information on Pier 21. To the best of my knowledge as it has been a long time since 1939.
I was a private soldier with the 48th Highlanders; we boarded a ship destined for England on December 17th 1939 called the Reina del Pacifico. Captained by a seaman named Ridyard. We pulled out into the bay, sat there for 3 days waiting for movement orders. Below deck the bags of ballast was named South American Flour. When we arrived in England the Captain informed us it was dynamite. So we sat in the harbor with close to 800 men who could smoke on deck and below during daytime hours. This sure was a possible re-enactment of the 1917 explosion disaster. We finally sighted the shore of Ireland on the night of the 28th, safely. Might I add that the rough North Sea in winter only added to my seasickness that took place from the first moment we moved out into the Bay and lasted until I saw the lights of the shoreline? One of the tragedies of the trip was the ship chef serving mutton and for some reason the rough seas, the smell of the engines and serving mutton made suicide seem like a welcome relief. I believe our crew were Aussies for which I have never forgiven them for this cruel torture. No offence to Tony, Keith or you other down under but every time my wife throws mutton in a pan I instinctively head for a rail. I believe Gary there must be Naval records of all WW2 departures from this historic Pier 21. By the way here is a photo of my Xmas Day menu served at sea.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Norm
Quite a history on the ship you sailed on...


REINA DEL PACIFICO was built in 1931 by Harland & Wolff at Glasgow with a tonnage of 17702grt, a length of 551ft 4in, a beam of 76ft 4in and a service speed of 18 knots. When launched on 23rd September 1930 she was PSNC's largest ship, the first with a white hull and the first passenger ship with a name which didn't begin with 'O'. After a 3 day shake down cruise in the North Sea she commenced her maiden voyage on 9th April 1931 from Liverpool - La Rochelle - Vigo - Bermuda - Bahamas - Havana - Jamaica - Panama Canal - Guayaquil - Callao - Antofagasta - Valparaiso. The total passage time was 25.5 days. On 19th January 1932 she recommenced a 'Round South America' which was undertaken once annually. In 1936 she completed the voyage to Valparaiso in a record 25 days. On 3rd August 1939, after arriving at Liverpool, she was despatched to the Clyde where she was put on standby pending the outbreak of war. When war was declared on 3rd September she left the Clyde as part of a 17 ship convoy bound for the Far East. After one voyage to Halifax in December 1939 she returned to Liverpool where she was converted into a troopship. On 11th April she sailed from the Clyde with four other troopships bound for Harstad in Norway and the Bygden Fjord where they steamed in circles for two hours while the Fjord was depth charged by the escorts. She was bombed during the embarkation but suffered no damage. In the following May she returned to Norway to evacuate troops and then proceeded to West Africa. On 24th July 1940 she sailed for Suez via Cape Town with RAF personnel, their Spitfires being carried by the accompanying aircraft carrier Argus. She repeated the same voyage on 14th November. In January 1941 she carried the 4th Indian Division from Suez to Port Sudan from where the troops proceeded to Ethopia. Back in Avonmouth by the March she was bombed for three successive nights but suffered no damage. Moved to the Clyde she was bombed again but incurred no damage. On 22nd March 1941 and loaded with troops she struck a submerged object in the Bristol Channel and shed a propeller forcing her to return to Liverpool for repairs. Whilst in Liverpool she was subjected to air attacks on 15th April but although a delayed action bomb exploded in the water alongside she suffered no damage and left on time with troops bound for Cape Town. After a second voyage to South Africa she undertook North Atlantic crossings out of Halifax before commencing a voyage from Liverpool - Cape Town - Bombay - Colombo - Liverpool. On 12th April 1942 she repeated the voyage to Colombo. She made one trip to North America on 6th August to fetch US and Canadian troops and when she returned to Liverpool she was dry docked, repainted and the lifeboats replaced with landing craft. On 13th September she proceeded to the Clyde and, together with other troopships, commenced practice landing operations. These continued until 17th October when a full rehearsal for the North Africa landings were undertaken at Loch Linne. On 21st October she embarked troops for the 'Z' landing at Oran and as flagship to Senior Naval Officer Landing proceeded to the Mediterranean. As the Algiers force had to be 24 hours ahead of the Oran force the Reina del Pacifico, at one stage, had to steam on a reverse course for 8 hours so that she could sail through the Straits of Gibraltar in darkness. At 15.30hrs on 7th November she met up with the equipment ships and then, at 20.00hrs, rendez-voused with the marker submarine. By 23.30hrs she was in position, one of 102 ships assembled for the landing operation. At 07.00hrs on the following morning her landing craft were disembarked and went to the assembly area where they proceeded ashore. The Reina del Pacifico later berthed in Oran harbour. By 24th November she was back in the Clyde embarking reinforcements for Algiers. On 5th January 1943 she took reinforcements to Oran and later in the year, on 5th May, arrived at Suez to begin practicing for the Sicily landings. On 29th June she embarked the 51st Highland Division landing them at Avola Beach, Sicily on 10th July. She then sailed to Malta before proceeding to Oran where she evacuated 500 German prisoners of war. During this time she was twice attacked by the Luftwaffe. On 23rd July she arrived back in the Clyde. In the following August she carried King Peter of Jugoslavia, together with his entourage, from Liverpool to Suez from where she proceeded to Taranto and Port Augustus with troops. When she was in Sicily she embarked the U. S. First Division H. Q. Staff for passage to Britain where they began preparations for the Normandy landings. On 15th November 1943 she sailed form Liverpool to Bombay in a convoy of 20 ships carrying troops. The convoy was attacked on 26th November by 60 aircraft and Lamport and Holt's Delius was the only loss. Three days later the convoy was again attacked by 24 JU 88's but although they scored several hits no ships were lost. In January 1944 she sailed on a trooping voyage to East Africa and then spent ten months ferrying troops in the Mediterranean. In December of 1944 she sailed from Liverpool to New York with a call in Iceland before going to the Pacific where she continued trooping duties until the end of hostilities. During 1946 she was deployed as a Repatriation ship sailing some 350,000 miles and returning some 150,000 men and women of over 20 nationalities to their homelands. In January 1947 she returned to her builders where she was refurbished. As her fittings, removed when she was converted for war duties, had been destroyed during the bombing new furniture was installed. Her sea trials commenced on 10th September and on the following day the outer No.2 engine overheated and blew up killing 28 engine room personnel. She returned to service in 1948 on the Liverpool - Valparaiso service, a year later than anticipated. On 8th July 1957 she went aground on Devil's Flat, Bermuda and came off two days later without incurring any damage. In the following November she lost a propeller in Havana and a new one was delivered by the Salinas. On 27th April 1958 she sailed on her last voyage before being withdrawn from service and subsequent scrapping at the BISCO yard of John Cashmore at Newport in Monmouthshire.

Maria I understand your problem, my father was posted to the British Army and I can't find anything about that period of his service. You maybe should put in a request for your father's service record to the National Archives. It would be a beginning and maybe from there you can trace his movements. There are plenty of people on his board prepared to help you with the abbreviations used in military records. Feel you can contact me anytime.
The following web site may help you in your quest.

http://www.mapleleafup.org/locator/research.html

Cheers

Art J.

Hi Art,

Thankyou for the website you gave me, I shall try it and fingers crossed I can find out the relevent info that I need...

So you are in the same boat? pardon the pun I have to say that two specific members of MLU I owe a lot to, they are David Hayward and Mark Tonner who have gave me so much info in the past which must have taken a lot of their time, and I really appreciate ALL of your help

The one thing I havent done which I now realise is probably where I have gone wrong..and that is, expecting to find out the info online...and it doesnt work that way does it ?.

Hope you yourself find what you are looking for, it is so frustrating eh? <<<< just like that

Love your name Art, seeing as it is my Dads name

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Maria
The one thing I havent done which I now realise is probably where I have gone wrong..and that is, expecting to find out the info online...and it doesnt work that way does it ?

Unfortunately, it doesn't. WW2 personnel records are NOT online as are WW1 records, essentially because our Privacy Act prohibits the release of personal information except under certain stringent circumstances. All the information you need to know about this is contained here:

http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/10/100907_e.html

Good luck and keep us posted.

Geoff

PS: If you can't meet the qualifiers as stated in the link above, I suggest you contact the people at http://www.project-roots.com ... they're really quite good.