MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Armour Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-12-05, 00:04
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933 and 1936 - differences?

I´m trying to establish the differences between the

Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933:

Click image for larger version

Name:	Fin-CardenLoyd-M1933.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	24.1 KB
ID:	74976
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...Loyd-M1933.jpg

and Model 1936 "Dutchman":

Click image for larger version

Name:	GB-LightTankModel1936.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	45.0 KB
ID:	74977
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...kModel1936.jpg

As far as I can see only the bogies and turret differ.

What is more than meets the eye?

Thanks,
Hanno

(Picture source: TANKS!)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-12-05, 02:17
servicepub (RIP)'s Avatar
servicepub (RIP) servicepub (RIP) is offline
RIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,734
Default Lt Tank

Hi Hanno, Can't help with the differences but I can at least provide an additional photo.

Clive

Click image for larger version

Name:	mkiilttk.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	26.2 KB
ID:	74978
http://www.servicepub.com/images/mkiilttk.jpg
__________________
Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed.
- M38A1, 67-07800, ex LETE
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-12-05, 11:35
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Re: Lt Tank

Quote:
Originally posted by servicepub
I can at least provide an additional photo.
Clive,

According to my info, this is a Light Tank Mark 1A4E6: "Considered a real improvement over the earlier Mark 1, the RTC began using this vehicle in October, 1930. Test models for this series were numbered A4E6 to A4E10. India investigated this series and later placed an order for a light tank of their own specifications."

H.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-12-05, 14:05
Alan Brock Alan Brock is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Redditch, UK
Posts: 38
Default

Here is a photo of a Vickers light tank undergoing beach landing exercises. Turret appears to be a wooden mock-up !
I have no idea which mark it is.

Click image for larger version

Name:	vickerslight1.jpg
Views:	512
Size:	151.7 KB
ID:	7400
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-12-05, 15:08
servicepub (RIP)'s Avatar
servicepub (RIP) servicepub (RIP) is offline
RIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,734
Default Re: Re: Lt Tank

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
According to my info, this is a Light Tank Mark 1A4E6
Hanno,
Not my area of expertise but the photo comes from a binder at National Archives, supplied by Brit WO of vehicles in WO Service. The index identifies it as "Mark II Light Tank". Note that it has markings for WVEE (Wheeled Vehicle Experimental Establishment) ignoring the fact that it is tracked and not wheeled, the marking implies that it is a test vehicle and not necessarily 'in service' yet. Other photos from this binder have been posted in the British Empire Staff Car thread.
__________________
Those who live by the sword will be shot by those of us who have progressed.
- M38A1, 67-07800, ex LETE
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-12-05, 19:24
Mark W. Tonner's Avatar
Mark W. Tonner Mark W. Tonner is offline
Senior Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: London, Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 3,027
Default Re: Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933 and 1936 - differences?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
What is more than meets the eye?
Hi Hanno;

- the "Dutchman" had a simpler hull shape and was re-shaped at the rear to give more room internally.

Cheers
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-12-05, 09:54
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Alan Brock
Here is a photo of a Vickers light tank undergoing beach landing exercises. Turret appears to be a wooden mock-up !
Thanks Alan. It is a Mark II, which used the same hull as the Mark IA. This is obviously one of the experimental models of the series which were numbered A4E13 to A4E15.
Quote:
Originally posted by servicepub
the photo comes from a binder at National Archives, supplied by Brit WO of vehicles in WO Service. The index identifies it as "Mark II Light Tank"
Thanks for sharing this excellent shot.

H.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-12-05, 10:12
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Re: Re: Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933 and 1936 - differences?

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
the "Dutchman" had a simpler hull shape and was re-shaped at the rear to give more room internally.
Hi Mark,

Could you please elaborate on that? Indeed the commercial Models 1933, 1934, 1936, 1937, 1938 were based on the Light Tank Mark I and II but indeed with simpler, roomier hull shapes. But as far as I can tell all of the commercial models were basically the same, only differing in suspension systems, turret shape and armament.

Thanks,
Hanno

Model 1936 "Dutchman" T16689 in Britsh use:
Click image for larger version

Name:	GB-Vickers-Dutchmen1.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	104.6 KB
ID:	74979
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...-Dutchmen1.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-12-05, 22:55
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Re: Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933 and 1936 - differences?

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Vickers Carden Loyd Light Tank Model 1933:
Superbly restored Model 1933 at Thun, Switserland. Picture courtesy of Esa Muikku.

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_0077-p.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	90.9 KB
ID:	74980
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...DSC_0077-p.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-12-05, 22:21
Bob Moseley (RIP)'s Avatar
Bob Moseley (RIP) Bob Moseley (RIP) is offline
RIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 2,620
Default Differences

Hi Hanno
Headlights and whatever that cylinder is to the front of the exhaust system.
Bob
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-12-05, 22:36
cliff's Avatar
cliff cliff is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gympie, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 3,105
Default Re: Differences

Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Moseley
Headlights and whatever that cylinder is to the front of the exhaust system.
and of course they don't have a supurbly restored instrument panel by salesman Bob :

cheers
Cliff

PS> sorry all I just could not resist
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19-12-05, 00:36
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

See http://gallery.vondur.net/v/industri...02165.jpg.html for a picture of another survivor, in this case one of eighteen Vickers 4-ton tanks purchased in 1935 by Latvia. This one is one of six cannon-armed M1937, which were not delivered until 1938. This was the only survivor of the Soviet takeover of 1940 and the "Great Patriotic War" (WW2). Today it is resting at Kubinka tank museum where a sign tells that it's a "Latvian export tank".

I've added the picture for future reference, since the owner of the http://vondur.net decided to remove his entire Tank Museum album from his website.

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC02165.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	56.4 KB
ID:	74981
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/823/DSC02165.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17-03-12, 21:24
zemsi's Avatar
zemsi zemsi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 865
Default Swiss Tanks

I just discovered this 6 year old topic. The Swiss also used these little tanks (called Panzerwagen 34/35), 6 in total, numbers M+7304 to M+7309. Looking at the period pics I got, they were 1 x model 1933 and 5 x modell 1934. See my blog for some more info in German. And here some technical information. These tanks were put of of service in 1948 and I think two survived.

Before we got the Vickers tanks, we aquired in 1931 two Carden-Loyd Mark VI (numbers M+0206 and M+0207).

Greetings
Chris
__________________
Swiss Chris aka Christoph Zimmerli - Driving Switzerland's only Aussie F15


www.wheelsandtracks.com
>> Condor A580 M+85691 (1952), Swiss Army Motorbike (unrestored)
>> F15 1942 Aust (Cab 13) ::: restored by Keefy
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17-03-12, 23:52
zemsi's Avatar
zemsi zemsi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 865
Default

... and watch out for the AFV Weapons Profile No 5 "Light Tanks Marks I - VI"
__________________
Swiss Chris aka Christoph Zimmerli - Driving Switzerland's only Aussie F15


www.wheelsandtracks.com
>> Condor A580 M+85691 (1952), Swiss Army Motorbike (unrestored)
>> F15 1942 Aust (Cab 13) ::: restored by Keefy
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 18-03-12, 12:58
George Moore's Avatar
George Moore George Moore is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plymouth UK
Posts: 130
Default Vickers Light tanks

Hi Hanno,
By chance a while back I purchased a copy of the "Handbook for Light Tanks Mks II - VI"
A re-print published by MLRS.
Quite informative, but brief descriptions, some drawings etc.

MkII, IIA, IIB and III had Rolls Royce 6 cyl engines.

MkIV, V, VI, VIA and VIB Meadows 6 cyl engines.

Changes were mainly:
  • Engine
  • Suspension
  • Turret type (armament on the VIC)
  • Fuel tank arrangement
  • Cooling arrangement
Construction, though basically similar, the type of construction differed in the way hulls were rivetted. Possibly for cost !!!

Contact me, and I can scan various sections.

My reason for buying it was to get more info on the engine, however, not as much as I thought, so I am still after photo's of a Meadows engine and drive unit, out of the vehicle.

George.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 18-03-12, 20:43
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zemsi View Post
Looking at the period pics I got, they were 1 x model 1933 and 5 x modell 1934.
Chris,

Thansk for the info. Did know the Swiss had some, now learned they were different models.

Great blog and thanks for the link to the Profile publication.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18-03-12, 21:12
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Moore View Post
My reason for buying it was to get more info on the engine, however, not as much as I thought, so I am still after photo's of a Meadows engine and drive unit, out of the vehicle.
George,

I know what you mean. Even though Meadows in its day was a well known engine manufacturer, it is strange not much information about them is available.

A few quotes from these web pages:The last two pages listed show some pictures, although I have no idea if these were even remotely connected to the engine used in the Vickers tanks.

Hanno
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 18-03-12, 21:27
zemsi's Avatar
zemsi zemsi is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 865
Default

... thanks Hanno. Problem already solved. I supplied George with some pics of the Meadows engine and drive train.

greetings
chris
__________________
Swiss Chris aka Christoph Zimmerli - Driving Switzerland's only Aussie F15


www.wheelsandtracks.com
>> Condor A580 M+85691 (1952), Swiss Army Motorbike (unrestored)
>> F15 1942 Aust (Cab 13) ::: restored by Keefy
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18-03-12, 21:36
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zemsi View Post
... thanks Hanno. Problem already solved. I supplied George with some pics of the Meadows engine and drive train.
That's great, could you share them here, too?

Here's a possibly comprehensive list of Meadows 6-cylinder engines used in Vickers Light Tanks:

Name | Cylinders | Fuel / Octane | Coolant | Capacity | Power (HP) | RPM
Meadows | 6 | Gasoline | Water | 4.43 liters| 88 | 3,000
Meadows EPT | 6 | .. | .. | .. | 58 | ..
Meadows EST | 6 | .. | Water | .. | 90 | ..
Meadows ESTB/A or ESTB/B | 6 | .. | .. | .. | 88 | ..
Meadows ESTE | 6 | .. | .. | .. | 88 | ..
Meadows ESTL | 6 | Gasoline | .. | .. | 88 | ..

Source: http://www.wwiivehicles.com/unitedkingdom/engines.asp
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18-03-12, 23:30
George Moore's Avatar
George Moore George Moore is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Plymouth UK
Posts: 130
Default Vickers Meadows

Hi to you both, Chris and Hanno,
Yes some great information re the engine, an added bonus was some details of the gearbox.
The main difference with the MkVI series, the fan was driven by a seperate shaft.
The radiators were mounted over the engine, and a bracket held the fan unit, which had a gear-box that was driven by a shaft running along the engine. This transmitted the drive upwards.

The radiator takes up a lot of room in the engine bay, some museums are getting a bit picky, so to be able to photograph the engine in situ, the radiator would need to be swung up out of the way. As it has a limited movement, even then it would be difficult to photograph properly.

Thanks for all the help guys.

George.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 30-01-15, 00:13
eddy8men eddy8men is offline
AKA Rick Wedlock
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 715
Default

found this turret on the net over xmas and will go and have a shufti for it some time. might even have a go at putting a Dutchman together

Click image for larger version

Name:	hpim1081.jpg
Views:	15
Size:	73.1 KB
ID:	70857 Click image for larger version

Name:	hpim1083.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	79.3 KB
ID:	70858
__________________
_______________________
1941 mk1 mortar Carrier
1941 Mk1* Carrier
1942 Mk1* Carrier
1943 T16 Carrier
1945 Mk3 Dingo
1941 Mk3 Covenanter
1941 Mk4 Churchill AVRE (now sold)
1944 Mk6 Cromwell (now sold)
1952 Mk3 Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1953 Mk3 Centurion (breaking)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-07-15, 12:43
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy8men View Post
found this turret on the net over xmas and will go and have a shufti for it some time. might even have a go at putting a Dutchman together
Did you go after this turret?

I know of a Dutchman hull, although this was many years ago...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-07-15, 13:01
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default Vickers Carden-Loyd Light Tank Foreign Sales

Picture from a works album from Vickers Armstrong Ltd:

Click image for larger version

Name:	80%2B1%2B%2BLight%2BTank%2BForeign%2BSales%2B2.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	78.9 KB
ID:	74983
http://tankdevelopment.blogspot.co.u...foreign_8.html
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-07-15, 15:17
eddy8men eddy8men is offline
AKA Rick Wedlock
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 715
Default

hanno I went to look for the turret but had no luck and no locals knew of it so might have been a wild goose chase although the farmer told me of a bofors next to a river nearby but that had also gone in the last couple of years
I did find the remains of a Cromwell on a range nearby but only just enough to fill 2 shopping bags ! the chunk of steel is the mantlet with a piece of bronze cradle still bolted to it.

rick

Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20150415_16_18_06_Pro.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	105.8 KB
ID:	74984 Click image for larger version

Name:	WP_20150415_16_18_21_Pro.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	120.0 KB
ID:	74985
__________________
_______________________
1941 mk1 mortar Carrier
1941 Mk1* Carrier
1942 Mk1* Carrier
1943 T16 Carrier
1945 Mk3 Dingo
1941 Mk3 Covenanter
1941 Mk4 Churchill AVRE (now sold)
1944 Mk6 Cromwell (now sold)
1952 Mk3 Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1953 Mk3 Centurion (breaking)
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-07-15, 15:54
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy8men View Post
hanno I went to look for the turret but had no luck and no locals knew of it so might have been a wild goose chase although the farmer told me of a bofors next to a river nearby but that had also gone in the last couple of years
Rick,

Found the tread on Fylingdales range.

I'm sorry to hear the turret is gone. Here's hoping it ended up in someone's barn - better for it to be tucked away than chucked in the scrap bin

Hanno

Click image for larger version

Name:	hpim1082 (1).jpg
Views:	3
Size:	51.4 KB
ID:	74987
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-07-15, 21:18
eddy8men eddy8men is offline
AKA Rick Wedlock
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 715
Default

I also hope it has been saved but the truth is it probably got taken to the nearest scrap yard
I have to work faster to save this stuff, don't seem to be having much luck lately.

rick
__________________
_______________________
1941 mk1 mortar Carrier
1941 Mk1* Carrier
1942 Mk1* Carrier
1943 T16 Carrier
1945 Mk3 Dingo
1941 Mk3 Covenanter
1941 Mk4 Churchill AVRE (now sold)
1944 Mk6 Cromwell (now sold)
1952 Mk3 Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1953 Mk3 Centurion (breaking)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-11-18, 19:59
eddy8men eddy8men is offline
AKA Rick Wedlock
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 715
Default

SUCCESS a local chap heard of the turret and has got in touch with me and is taking me to see it next sunday.
i love it when a plan comes together
__________________
_______________________
1941 mk1 mortar Carrier
1941 Mk1* Carrier
1942 Mk1* Carrier
1943 T16 Carrier
1945 Mk3 Dingo
1941 Mk3 Covenanter
1941 Mk4 Churchill AVRE (now sold)
1944 Mk6 Cromwell (now sold)
1952 Mk3 Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1953 Mk3 Centurion (breaking)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-11-18, 22:23
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddy8men View Post
SUCCESS a local chap heard of the turret and has got in touch with me and is taking me to see it next sunday.
i love it when a plan comes together
Excellent - can't wait to see it!

H.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-11-18, 23:07
eddy8men eddy8men is offline
AKA Rick Wedlock
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 715
Default

thanks hanno i'll put some pics up next weekend
__________________
_______________________
1941 mk1 mortar Carrier
1941 Mk1* Carrier
1942 Mk1* Carrier
1943 T16 Carrier
1945 Mk3 Dingo
1941 Mk3 Covenanter
1941 Mk4 Churchill AVRE (now sold)
1944 Mk6 Cromwell (now sold)
1952 Mk3 Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1953 Mk3 Centurion (breaking)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 19-11-18, 10:09
eddy8men eddy8men is offline
AKA Rick Wedlock
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: manchester
Posts: 715
Default

it's still there but has deteriorated a little from the pics i initially saw on the web. i've emailed the landowner for permission to recover it and don't see any issues once i get the go ahead as access is very good and thing only weighs about 100 kg. i did look for the rest of it underneath but wasn't that fortunate

if all goes to plan i'll get it back to the workshop this month and dry it out before tacking it back together while i decide what to do with it.
__________________
_______________________
1941 mk1 mortar Carrier
1941 Mk1* Carrier
1942 Mk1* Carrier
1943 T16 Carrier
1945 Mk3 Dingo
1941 Mk3 Covenanter
1941 Mk4 Churchill AVRE (now sold)
1944 Mk6 Cromwell (now sold)
1952 Mk3 Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1952 ARV Centurion
1953 Mk3 Centurion (breaking)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:44.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016