Tank AA, 20 mm Quad, Skink

[servicepub (RIP)]

I'm looking for photos of the Canadian Skink, preferably with references. I currently have about 10 photos (3 from the AEDB Design Record) but would like to find more specially of the one used in NWE.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Of the three completed Skinks (one of which went to Europe for operational trials), did any survive the war? Where is it/they now?

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by servicepub
Of the three completed Skinks (one of which went to Europe for operational trials), did any survive the war? Where is it/they now?

Is it not unreasonable to expect the Skink turrets may have been pulled and the two shipped to Portugal with the rest of our Rams? That may explain the turrets Colin Stevens has investigated over the years.

I'd be more interested to find out what happened to the one sent to Britain during the war...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by servicepub
Of the three completed Skinks (one of which went to Europe for operational trials), did any survive the war? Where is it/they now?

At least one Skink ended up as a turretless APC in Portugal, though that might well have been one of the Skinks from Canada - see Sherman Register > Grizzly APC.
Come to think of it, it could well have been the case those three Skinks were sent back to Canada after the trails, only to be decapitated and sent back to Europe a decade later.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Come to think of it, it could well have been the case those three Skinks were sent back to Canada after the trails, only to be decapitated and sent back to Europe a decade later.

As Geoff points out, only one Skink made it overseas. What happened to it and what happened to the two that remained in Canada?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by servicepub
As Geoff points out, only one Skink made it overseas. What happened to it and what happened to the two that remained in Canada?

You're right about the numbers, of course. Well, at least one Skink ended up as a turretless APC in Portugal, though that might well have been one of the two Skinks from Canada - see Sherman Register > Grizzly APC.
Come to think of it, it could well have been the case the one Skink was sent back to Canada after the trails, only to be decapitated and sent back to Europe a decade later.

H.

[Roger Lucy]

The vehicle sent to the UK in August 1944, was mounted on Grizzly chassis number 62-727. The second completed Skink, on chassis 62-728, was going to be sent shortly after, with the UK owning the turrets and Canada the chassis. In the end it was not sent and on 2 August, 1945 to clear the books, Canada assumed title for 62-728 in its entirity while 62-727 was transferred to the UK account. I would guess it was eventully scrapped or ended up as a hard target on Salisbury Plain.

Of the vehicles in Canada Vehicle 62-728 was sent to Vehicle Proving Ground East, Ottawa in September, 1945 for tests on its Polsten feed mechanism. The one other completed Skink (chassis number unknown) had its Hispano Suiza mounted turret swapped for a Posten turret and was sent to Borden for training and evaluation about the same time. The eight completed turrets went into long term storage at Longue Pointe Ordnance Depot, and last mention I have found of them is in 1947.

[servicepub (RIP)]

I could really use some Skink photos. Can anybody help?
I have 13 in all and have a few more coming from Bovington but could still use a few more for this book. What is needed are actual prints please, not links to an on-line picture.
Recently lost out on three Skink items on e-pay. My ridiculously high bid was more than doubled by the winning bid. If anybody has the Concervsion instructions, the turret instructions or the users guide, please contact me off-line.
Thnx,

Clive

Bill Gregg had a cast Skink turret that was not yet machined that had been pulled off a range at his CMHS museum in Rockwood.
I wonder where it ended up ?

[Roger Lucy]

There were about 30 turret castings in various stages of machining when the project was cancelled. Only 8 were completed.

[chris vickery]

Here is a pic of a Skink turret, as noted by P Kitson, in the hands of the Gregg collection. This photo was taken at the CPR rail siding in Guelph Ontario in the early eighties when Gregg's collection moved West to CFB Shilo.
I do know that the FAT in the pic is at Shilo, last time I saw it was located in the "dustbowl". Perhaps the curator at CFB Shilo can let us know either way if this skink turret is still there?

scan02.jpg

[shermanfreak]

The following pics were taken about 6 or 7 years ago at Shilo in one of their storage compounds beside the golf course.









The curator at the time told me that the turret came over with the Gregg collection. When I returned there 3 years ago, there was no sign of the compound anymore, and unfortunately my timing was bad as the museum was closed too.

HTH

[rob love]

The dustbowl stuff was moved last summer to another compound next to the old German target shop, (which is now in use by the museum kitshop) The skink turret remains in this dustbowl assortment, I was looking at it just a couple of weeks ago.

[chris vickery]

I know that it would not be totally original or authentic as we know the history of these rare beasts, but, would it not be something for a museum to "re-create" a Skink using this turret?
Something to think about.

[servicepub (RIP)]

I know that it would not be totally original or authentic as we know the history of these rare beasts, but, would it not be something for a museum to "re-create" a Skink using this turret?

I don't see why not. As long as the museum explains that it is not an "original". Personally I would love to see a reconstructed Skink - it ranks right up there as one of our rarest military artifacts.

[Gunner]

Hi Guys:

The reality of taking the unmachined turret, repairing all the range damage, finding and preparing a spare Grizzley chassis (anyone got one?), mating the two and fitting out the turret correctly is a wonderful pipe dream but wholly impractical unless you have bottomless pockets. I know that the RCA Museum's pockets have a distinct bottom and it ain't that deep.

A more realistic approach might be to tidy up the turret and display it with images and miniature models that help tell the story of Canada's only home grown self propelled armoured anti-aircraft gun (the ADATs doesn't count as it is a missile launcher and was designed in Switzerland).

On a light-hearted note; Clive, wouldn't the initial proposal be considered intention to creat a replica prohibited device?

What would our firearms big brothers think of that?

Mike

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Gunner
Hi Guys:

The reality of taking the unmachined turret, repairing all the range damage, finding and preparing a spare Grizzley chassis (anyone got one?), mating the two and fitting out the turret correctly is a wonderful pipe dream but wholly impractical unless you have bottomless pockets. I know that the RCA Museum's pockets have a distinct bottom and it ain't that deep.

A more realistic approach might be to tidy up the turret and display it with images and miniature models that help tell the story of Canada's only home grown self propelled armoured anti-aircraft gun (the ADATs doesn't count as it is a missile launcher and was designed in Switzerland).

On a light-hearted note; Clive, wouldn't the initial proposal be considered intention to creat a replica prohibited device?

What would our firearms big brothers think of that?

Mike

Just a quick note to all:

As we all know, Ubique is the motto of both the R.C.A. and C.M.E.'s although it has two very distinct meanings....for the Engineers "Ubique" means "everywhere", for the artillery it means "All over the place!"

[Gunner]

Ubique
Royal Artillery

There is a word you often see, pronounce it as you may--
"You bike,""you bykwee," "ubbikwe"--alludin' to R.A.
It serves 'Orse, Field, an' Garrison as motto for a crest;
An' when you've found out all it means I'll tell you 'alf the rest.

Ubique means the long-range Krupp be'ind the low-range 'ill--
Ubique means you'll pick it up an', while you do, stand still.
Ubique means you've caught the flash an' timed it by the sound.
Ubique means five gunners' 'ash before you've loosed a round.

Ubique means Blue Fuse, an' make the 'ole to sink the trail.
Ubique means stand up an' take the Mauser's 'alf-mile 'ail.
Ubique means the crazy team not God nor man can 'old.
Ubique means that 'orse's scream which turns your innards cold!

Ubique means "Bank, 'Olborn, Bank - a penny all the way" -
The soothin', jingle-bump-an'-clank from day to peaceful day.
Ubique means "They've caught De Wet, an' now we shan't be long."
Ubique means "I much regret, the beggar's goin' strong!"

Ubique means the tearin' drift where, breech-blocks jammed with mud,
The khaki muzzles duck an' lift across the khaki flood.
Ubique means the dancing plain that changes rocks to Boers.
Ubique means mirage again an' shellin' all outdoors.

Ubique means "Entrain at once for Grootdefeatfontein."
Ubique means "Off-load your guns" - at midnight in the rain!
Ubique means "More mounted men. Return all guns to store."
Ubique means the R.A.M.R. Infantillery Corps.

Ubique means that warnin' grunt the perished linesman knows,
When o'er 'is strung an' sufferin' front the shrapnel sprays 'is foes;
An' as their firin' dies away the 'usky whisper runs
From lips that 'aven't drunk all day: "The Guns! Thank Gawd, the Guns!"

Extreme, depressed, point-blank or short, end-first or any'ow,
From Colesberg Kop to Quagga's Poort - from Ninety-Nine till now -
By what I've 'eard the others tell an' I in spots 'ave seen,
There's nothin' this side 'Eaven or 'Ell Ubique doesn't mean!

Rudyard Kipling

Mike

[servicepub (RIP)]

Just when I thought that there were no more photos of the Skink in existence...

This Skink is shown at a 1946 "Army Days" exhibit held at the University Avenue Armouries, note the Queen's Own Rifles "D" Company sign over the doorway. Among the equipment on show was a tracked jeep and an armoured snowmobile. Even better, this example is sporting both a DND number (DND62-728) and a WD number (C-T-163932) !

There were two Skinks in Canada when the war ended, one, which had been destined for the UK, was sent to the Vehicle Proving Ground in Ottawa, the other which had mounted the original Hispano-armed fabricated turret was converted to take a Polsten-armed cast turret, and sent to the AFV establishment at Camp Borden. The Borden Skink is the one most likely sent to the exhibition, which would mean its number would be lower than that of the Skink that went overseas. So the 'fighting' Skink could be CT163933 or 163934 IF the CT numbers for the Skink were consecutive. However, if the Skinks were built up on any available Grizzly hull then the numbers could be anywhere from 160194 to 160279 inclusive for the first group or 163911 to 164074.

[Jon Skagfeld]

Clive: Was that York Armouries, or University Armouries?

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Clive: Was that York Armouries, or University Armouries?

I'm in Ottawa and have made a carreer of ignoring Toronto. What armoury did the QOR call home immediately after the war? The door behind the Skink has a sign saying "Q.O.R. D Coy".

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by servicepub
I'm in Ottawa and have made a carreer of ignoring Toronto. What armoury did the QOR call home immediately after the war? The door behind the Skink has a sign saying "Q.O.R. D Coy".

Clive:

QOR occupied the University Avenue Armouries, along with the 48th, and an Artillery Regiment (either the 29th Field or the 42nd Medium), as well as 5 Column RCASC.

Just for editing notation, there was no Armoury on York Street, however, there was, of course, Fort York Armoury at 660 Fleet Street West, near the Princes' Gate of the Canadian National Exhibition. Units there were The Irish Regiment, Toronto Scottish, 2 Field Engineers, Royal Regiment of Canada and Queens York Rangers.

PS: Still haven't received my photos.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
PS: Still haven't received my photos.

Photos are sitting in front of me. I'll pop them into the morning's mail.

PS thanks for the armoury update, I have edited my initial post.

[peter simundson]

Having served in QOR D Coy I can confirm the Company Room and sign were still in University Armouries in 1958.

[Roger Lucy]

The CNE Skink photos has DND number 62-728. According to the DND file, that was the Skink that went to the Ottawa Vehicle Proving Ground. The Borden Skink (Pilot I) was DND62-727.
There is a long list on the file with the DND numbers of all the Grizzlys destined for Skinkdom, unfortunately, I don't believe it gives the CT numbers.
Roger

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Roger Lucy
The CNE Skink photos has DND number 62-728. According to the DND file, that was the Skink that went to the Ottawa Vehicle Proving Ground. The Borden Skink (Pilot I) was DND62-727.
There is a long list on the file with the DND numbers of all the Grizzlys destined for Skinkdom, unfortunately, I don't believe it gives the CT numbers.
Roger

Any chance of a copy of that list?

[Roger Lucy]

I did not take a copy but I believe it's on RG 24 vol.9370

[servicepub (RIP)]

Roger,

Are you going to Grace O'Maley's pub tonight? It is on Ogilvie Rd in the same strip mall where we had Chinese Brunch some weeks back.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by servicepub
This Skink is shown at a 1946 "Army Days" exhibit held at the University Avenue Armouries, note the Queen's Own Rifles "D" Company sign over the doorway. Among the equipment on show was a tracked jeep and an armoured snowmobile. Even better, this example is sporting both a DND number (DND62-728) and a WD number (C-T-163932) !

Great find, thanks!

Of interest is the fact that this Skink is fitted with US steel chevron tracks, instead of Canadian Dry Pin (CDP) tracks. This could fuel the debate whether or not all CDP tracks were not fitted duing manufacture, but during a post-war retrofit.

Any pics of the Armoured Snowmobile you could share with us?

Thanks,
Hanno

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Any pics of the Armoured Snowmobile you could share with us?

I think that I have some. Did you get my e-mail with the attachment a couple of days ago? I never heard back and will resend if it didn't get through.
CML