CMP 3-tonner with makeshift house type body

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The cover of the May 2005 issue of the Royal Netherlands Navy Magazine "Alle Hens" (All Hands), features a typical liberation shot. What interested me was the makeshift house type body in the back of a CMP 3-tonner. Some kind of HQ truck?

[cliff]

a very interesting photo Hanno. I would say a field workshop conversion to a command truck of some sort.

cheers
Cliff

[rob love]

I can't believe how many are on that Bren carrier; A quick count shows close to 30 people. Thats gotta flatten those little coils.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by rob love
I can't believe how many are on that Bren carrier; A quick count shows close to 30 people. Thats gotta flatten those little coils.

That's the basic "Dutch stowage" for Carriers
It's nigh impossible to find any liberation pictures of Carriers without a large number of Dutchmen perched on top, which is why in 1945 a cartoonist depicted them as follows:


See Photo request - Windsor Carrier for another such picture.

H.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Any day you can load a carrier with about 30 shapely Dutch blondes is a good day for me...

[Rolf S. Ask]

drive the UC with all those 30 blondes on....

Hehe I was first, so just shut up

Rolf

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by cliff
I would say a field workshop conversion to a command truck of some sort

Is that a "69" on the rear left lower corner of the truck?
Would that be a coincidence with 30 blondes on the carrier, or an indication of the perceived use of the truck?

H.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Would that be a coincidence with 30 blondes on the carrier, or an indication of the perceived use of the truck?

Looked it up... it's assigned to the 1st Canadian Field Brothel Company (Detached), 2nd Canadian Infantry Division.

See Ma Yappy : ...

(Master Sunray ... I do agree with you that our smilies variety have become too limited to express many things we'd like to express ... it's time for more moods here dude ... I'll see what I can find for MLU collection)

[Gunner]

Is it possible that the vehicle is a senior officer's caravan? It appears to be very nice coach-built wood work and many senior officers had the wherewithall to pay for such even if the army wouldn't.

See the RCA Museum site for General Crerars utilitarian but beautifully made caravan. The wood work by a British caravan maker is stunning.

2 cents! Cheers, Mike

[servicepub (RIP)]

I found the plans for this at Archives. Some day I may build my own.:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Gunner
Is it possible that the vehicle is a senior officer's caravan? It appears to be very nice coach-built wood work and many senior officers had the wherewithall to pay for such even if the army wouldn't.

Your two cents could well be the winning bid, Mike!

Who can identify the AoS "69"?

H.

[cliff]

Originally posted by servicepub
I found the plans for this at Archives. Some day I may build my own.:

Any chance of a copy for a future model one day

cheers
Cliff

[Gunner]

Hi McSpool!

If it was an infantry division it was either the West Nova Scotia Regiment, (1 Div), the South Saskatchewan Regiment, (2 Div), or the North Nova Scotia Highlanders (3 Div). There was no "69" (I can hear the ribald jokes already!: ) in an armoured div.

"69" on a Blue/Red/Blue vertically striped tac sign is 1 Corps and Army Troops Sub-park, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps or 2 Corps and Army Troops Sub-park, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps.

There was a series in the 60's for medical units at Corps level but it stops at 68 (all right... no yodelling in the canyon at the hospitals... OK! )

If we nail down who was where, when; I'd bet on the West Novies, the SSR or the North Novies.

Mike

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by Gunner
Is it possible that the vehicle is a senior officer's caravan? It appears to be very nice coach-built wood work and many senior officers had the wherewithall to pay for such even if the army wouldn't.

See the RCA Museum site for General Crerars utilitarian but beautifully made caravan. The wood work by a British caravan maker is stunning.

2 cents! Cheers, Mike

I have a number of photos that I took of General Crerars caravan when it was up at Bill Greggs. I'll dig them out and post them. If the plans are drifting around I would appreciate a copy. The Generals caravan though mounted on a CMP at Bills it had orginall been mounted on a Mach 5 Ton.

[cmperry4]

I just had to pop over to the RCA site and check, cause I thought that van was on a Diamond T:

Here's their links:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Gunner
If it was an infantry division it was either the West Nova Scotia Regiment, (1 Div), the South Saskatchewan Regiment, (2 Div), or the North Nova Scotia Highlanders (3 Div).

If we nail down who was where, when; I'd bet on the West Novies, the SSR or the North Novies.

Hi Gunner!

http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/ > Vehicles > Infantry Divisions confirms what you wrote, there's only a "69" on a brown square for Infantry Dvisions.

Who knows where in Holland The West Nova Scotia Regiment, The South Saskatchewan Regiment and/or The North Nova Scotia Highlanders were operating in May 1945?

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Phil Waterman
The Generals caravan though mounted on a CMP at Bills it had orginall been mounted on a Mach 5 Ton.

Colin Stevens wrote:

Crerar slept and had an office in a caravan mounted on a Diamond T (He shipped this and his map trailer back to Canada for preservation at the end of the war. This caravan combination was sold surplus out of London, Ontario after the war as the Canadian War Museum did not want it. The caravan was rescued by Dr. Bill Gregg from a tobacco farmer's field in Ontario many years later - amazingly intact though decayed I noted when I went through it in 1985 - and has since been restored and placed on a Diamond T 4 Ton Breakdown chassis apparently and is at CFB Shilo, Manitoba. His original Diamond T has never been found. I have its markings and WD number on file.

It was Monty who had a bedroom caravan on a Mack, an office caravan on a Leyland and a map caravan on a Fordson, all now on display at the IWM Duxford.

H.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by cmperry4
I just had to pop over the the RCA site and check, cause I thought that van was on a Diamond T:

I stand corrected, wonderful to see the restoration work that has been done.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Mike Calnan
"69" on a Blue/Red/Blue vertically striped tac sign is 1 Corps and Army Troops Sub-park, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps or 2 Corps and Army Troops Sub-park, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps

Hi Mike;

If it were either of No. 1 Corps and Army Troops Sub-Park, R.C.O.C. or No. 2 Corps and Army Troops Sub-Park, R.C.O.C. there would be a white bar visible above the AoS marking

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Who knows where in Holland The West Nova Scotia Regiment, The South Saskatchewan Regiment and/or The North Nova Scotia Highlanders were operating in May 1945?

Hi Hanno;

I would have to say that the vehicle belongs to the West Nova Scotia Regiment (3rd Inf Bde/1st Inf Div).

In May 1945 the South Saskatchewan Regiment (6th Inf Bde/2nd Inf Div) were operating within Germany (Oldenburg area) and the North Nova Scotia Highlanders (9th Inf Bde/3rd Inf Div) were also operating within Germany, in the Leer-Veenhusen-Terborg area.

The West Nova Scotia Regiment was on the northern flank of the 1st Corps' front along the 'Grebbe Line' and after the cease-fire advanced into 'Western Holland' along with the rest of the 1st Corps.

Thats my thoughts on the subject.

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
The West Nova Scotia Regiment was on the northern flank of the 1st Corps' front along the 'Grebbe Line' and after the cease-fire advanced into 'Western Holland' along with the rest of the 1st Corps.

Thats my thoughts on the subject.

And right on the Mark, as always!

H.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
And right on the Mark, as always!

H.

I liked my response better, but I have to acknowledge Mark's being able to rise to the Mark whenever called upon to do so...

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
And right on the Mark, as always!

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
I liked my response better, but I have to acknowledge Mark's being able to rise to the Mark whenever called upon to do so...

...... I'll go back to sleep now, I may even count

[Gunner]

I was posted to RHQ RCA as the Crerar Caravan restoration was being completed. The contractor in Brandon Manitoba did a pretty good job but there are errors which were too late to correct when I pointed them out:

A concious decision, supported by Bill Gregg (he was consulted), was made to put the Caravan on the Dizzy T wrecker. This meant stretching the frame/drive shaft (all mods were done so as to be reversible) and removing the wrecker body. Hence the caravan is mounted on a soft top Dizzy T instead of the correct hard top. The RCA Museum is looking at the option of acquiring a hard top truck but funds are scarce.

The contractor did not make good notes about the correct fasteners to use and the straight or phillips screws were all replaced with robertson (Canadian but not correct).

Some of the wood trim was too difficult to replicate exactly in profile and it was replaced with modern commercially available profiles that were close.

The contractor did not note the number of exterior sheet metal panels that were used and when reskinning it, used fewer, wider panels... it does not match the photos from "before" or from when it was in service.

Finally, some of the markings and numbers were replicated in stick-on vinyl as time was running out before the official rededication.

All in all, a good effort marred only by some small details. My observations are not meant to be sour grapes... a lot of work went into preserving a piece of Canadian history that was almost lost. It was funded by the personal subscriptions of members of the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery as public funds could not be used on the project. As collectors and RATS (rusty army truck syndrome) sufferers we should admire what was accomplished.

Now if we can only get the truck and the trailer together again...


Cheers! Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
makeshift house type body in the back of a CMP 3-tonner

A popular conversion, apparently....


Source: http://www.desertrats.org.btinternet...artefacts3.htm

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by rob love
I can't believe how many are on that Bren carrier; A quick count shows close to 30 people. Thats gotta flatten those little coils.

Here's another poor overloaded carrier!

Image #3315063
Title: Normandy Troops
Caption:
14th June 1944: Reinforcements disembark from a landing craft, aboard a Bren Gun Carrier newly arrived in Normandy from Britain. (Photo by Reg Speller/Fox Photos/Getty Images)
Copyright:
By/Title: Reg Speller/Stringer
Date Created: 14 Jun 1944 12:00 AM
City, State, Country: , , France
Credit: Getty Images
Collection: Hulton Archive
Source: Hulton Archive

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by rob love
I can't believe how many are on that Bren carrier; A quick count shows close to 30 people. Thats gotta flatten those little coils.

How many lads fall off every time the driver shifts gears.....
HMMMMmmmm....I supposed it depends on how drunk everyone is..including the driver...

[Vic Eaton]

HELLO MR CMP PERRY
Any chance of seeing a picture of your TE20 tractor i have two of those here one with the loader and one without
REGARDS VIC UK