ET / Cairo, Citadel - the Army Museum

Kuno · #1 03-05-13, 16:04

Last February I had the chance to pay a visit to the Egyptian Army museum up at Cairo's Citadel. These are some impressions of the outdoor exhibits:

Kuno · #2 03-05-13, 16:07

Next five:

Kuno · #3 05-05-13, 22:23

More photos

Kuno · #4 05-05-13, 22:25

And more again

Ryan · #5 06-05-13, 11:58

wow, when they cracked the green paint out they really didn't care where it went! x-israeli maybe?

charlie fitton · #6 06-05-13, 14:06

Do they still have the wreckage of the fighter in the compound? I think it was a mirage, maybe a kafir..

Kuno · #7 06-05-13, 23:20

Those tanks with the gun up are the Egyptian ones - those with the gun down the Israeli ones.

There was no wreckage of an A/C on display. Only inside the building, a part of a wing or a rudder was shown. This part was bearing Israeli markings.

Kuno · #8 08-05-13, 20:42

And a question: Could anybody tell me who mounted when and why a French turret on the Sherman tank?

Wayne McGee · #9 08-05-13, 22:07

Pretty interesting conversion.
Isrealis mated up the turret of the AMX-13 (oscilating, high velocity 90mm gun with an auto-loader), to the proven, mechanically realible Sherman.
Unsure of the time-line, certainly after '56, but I'm sure a fair number were availible for the '67 'roadshow', probably when this one ended being aquired.
This is just one example of their genius for "making do with what you got" attitude that is still in practice today.

Cheers

Wayne

Kuno · #10 09-05-13, 08:21

Are you sure that the Israelis made this conversions?
All the Israeli tanks in that museum (also in another one in Cairo) were painted in dark green and had the gun barrel down. consequentially, I think it must have been an Egyptian tank. Last Sunday I have seen this tank as well in an old movie of the 1950ies. Depicting German tanks - the movie was filmed in Egypt.

motto · #11 09-05-13, 14:48

Seems to me the reasoning behind the barrel angle is either childish or phallic in its symbolism. Either way I think it rather silly.

Maybe if you were to tell them that the barrel alignment is correct because the Israelis look down on them whilst they secretly look up to the Israelis they will reverse them all.

David

Kuno · #12 09-05-13, 16:45

David; I dare to guess that the Egyptians had something different in mind when they arranged the guns of the tanks either looking up or looking down.

servicepub (RIP) · #13 09-05-13, 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuno

Those tanks with the gun up are the Egyptian ones - those with the gun down the Israeli ones.

Or it is indicative of their tactics - Egyptians firing indirectly from a distance and the Israelis firing from 'up close and personal'.

Kuno · #14 09-05-13, 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

wow, when they cracked the green paint out they really didn't care where it went! x-israeli maybe?

You see that quite often at outside exhibits - they are just overpainted by a thick layer of primer every now and then.

Hanno Spoelstra · #15 09-05-13, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuno

And a question: Could anybody tell me who mounted when and why a French turret on the Sherman tank?

Kuno,

Thanks for sharing your photos.

See my webpage on this Sherman variant: http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104/et.htm. This Egyptian Sherman was based on a Sherman M4A4 hull, which was re-engined with the GM 6-71 twin-diesel engine from the Sherman M4A2. The turret was removed and replaced by the FL-10 turret as fitted to the French AMX-13 light tank. The conversion was designed and built in France.

Regards,
Hanno

Kuno · #16 10-05-13, 08:50

Many thanks for this explanation, Hanno. I guess that these tanks were delivered by France to Egypt some when in the 1950ies. Would you actually know, if France used them as well or if they were only made for export or even particularly for Egypt?

Hanno Spoelstra · #17 10-05-13, 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuno

Many thanks for this explanation, Hanno. I guess that these tanks were delivered by France to Egypt some when in the 1950ies. Would you actually know, if France used them as well or if they were only made for export or even particularly for Egypt?

Hi Kuno,

Yes, these Sherman tanks were designed and modified in France as an answer to the Egyptian requirement to improve the Sherman's firepower. The engines were replaced as virtually no spares were available for the Chrysler Multibank originally fitted to the M4A4 hull. The completed tanks were then exported to Egypt.

Roughly around the same time (1954-1956), French engineers were working with the Israeli military on the same requirement. The Sherman's automotive platform was widely available and reliable, but the standard US 75mm gun was lacking in AT capabilities. The French-Israeli solution to this requirement was to fit the 75-mm CN 75-50 gun (a development of the German 7.5 cm KwK 42 L/70, used in the Panther tank) from the AMX-13 tank in the Sherman turret. This modified Sherman was known as the M50. Recorded history is not clear where the modifications were carried out, but as far as I can ascertain the first batch of 25(?) was converted in France and then shipped to Israel, just in time for the 1956 war. Israel later carried out this modification (and others) itself, supplied with parts (gun, castings) from France.

And so it happened the Israeli Sherman M50 battled against the Egyptian M4A4 with FL-10 turret, both equipped with the same gun from the same supplier...

HTH,
Hanno
Sherman Register

Kuno · #18 10-05-13, 19:15

Interesting information, Hanno. I wonder, why the French did not supply both parties with the very same modified tank...

Would you accidentally know where the French had the basic tanks from?