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  #61  
Old 08-12-16, 22:57
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Success!- boxes saved and only the lids had to be replicas.

With Christmas rapidly approaching I wanted to get the lid hinges spot weld on before businesses shut down for a few weeks.

The guy who has the heavy duty spot welder was able to do the job last Saturday as he was flying out to South Africa to see his family for a month the next day. Now that is service plus!

To paraphrase Rick on "American Restorations" All I have to do is shoot a coat of KG3 on it and it will really pop!

A Merry Christmas to all.

Cheers,
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  #62  
Old 09-12-16, 04:52
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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I decided they were either 17mm or 15mm press studs and ordered a couple of each on Ebay for the princely sum of $4. Should be here soon from Hong Kong. Sad I can't give the locals the business but I tried

Well another loose end has been tied up. I received the press studs from Hong Kong two weeks ago and my gamble paid off. They turned out to be 17mm diameter to fit the existing studs. Local shoe repairer fitted them to a piece of leather for me and I just picked it up.

Please allow me a slight diversion but I noted with sadness the 75th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor yesterday. I was a bit dismayed by the lack of coverage of the commemoration in the Australian media. It seemed to be relegated to a 20 second bite late into the news programs. I wound up watching the service streamed on my computer instead. Was moved to see three living survivors there of the five still left from the sinking of the USS Arizona. Having visited the Arizona twice, in the 70's and again in the 90's I never failed to get a bit choked up at the experience.

As a baby boomer whose father served in the US Army Signal Corps for all of WW2 in New Guinea and Australia, Dec 7th has always held a special place in my Dad's life and even in my upbringing. I guess to the young movers and shakers who now control the media it is ancient history but for some of us it is still as significant and relevant as the 4th of July.

When Japan woke the sleeping giant on the 7th Dec 1941 the world changed forever. The day deserves to be more than just a footnote in a news broadcast.

Cheers,
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  #63  
Old 09-12-16, 10:14
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As always, Jacques, Your work is exceptional! Don't suppose you Wanna finish my truck, do ya?

I had the same thought regarding Pearl Harbour. Strikes me as ironic that our media in Australia climbs all over themselves to get best coverage of ANZAC Day, yet similarly significant commemorations in other parts of the world hardly get a look in. I know it's not 'our' event, but it sure is our history, regardless of where it occured. If not for Pearl Harbour, it is just possible USA may not have entered the war. That could have proved disastrous for Australia.

As you would recall, I've been known to hang around Pearl Harbour on occasion. We were there for the last time on the 71st anniversary of the attack. What an event, what a suitably sombre day. If you don't get a bit of 'dust' in your eyes on a day like that, you are a cold hearted individual. I wonder how many people have leaned over the railings of the Arizona memorial, watched drops of oil rise from the depths of the ship to expand in that familiar rainbow colored slick, and shed the odd tear or two. I know I have. You just can't help it. I bet it fogged your eyes like it did mine! If that experience doesn't put a lump in your throat, I can't imagine anything else would, and you better check your pulse.

Last weekend I stumbled across a boxed DVD set on Pearl Harbour, and bought it. I'm still working my way through it, but can wholeheartedly recommend it. There is 12 hours of features in the 8 disks. I think you would thoroughly enjoy it, Jacques. I can get it to you if interested to see it. See attached images.

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  #64  
Old 10-12-16, 00:14
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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As always, Jacques, Your work is exceptional! Don't suppose you Wanna finish my truck, do ya?

I had the same thought regarding Pearl Harbour. Strikes me as ironic that our media in Australia climbs all over themselves to get best coverage of ANZAC Day, yet similarly significant commemorations in other parts of the world hardly get a look in. I know it's not 'our' event, but it sure is our history, regardless of where it occured. If not for Pearl Harbour, it is just possible USA may not have entered the war. That could have proved disastrous for Australia.
Hi Tony,

Thank you for the offer of the loan of the videos on Pearl Harbor. No doubt it will include a bit on the salvage and repair of the 7th fleet. A subject of much interest in its own right. Will see if the local library or JB Hi Fi has it but if not may kindly take you up on the loan of the set.

The danger to Australia from Japan was driven home to me very personally two weeks ago. I traveled to Cairns to stay the weekend with my son who was laying over there. He sometimes is rostered to fly there on a Friday, spend the weekend in Cairns and fly the 737 freighter back to Melbourne on a Monday. A real tough assignment!
We both love old Warbirds so it would be a good chance to see the only P-39 Airacobra in Australia at the Mareeba War museum. A very unique airplane by any standard. I hired a car on the Saturday and we took off. Unfortunately when we arrived there the museum was shut and despite a few messages left on the phone we got no reply.

Oh well, we had a car, a full tank of petrol, our sunglasses on, and Daintree was only one hour away (apologies to the Blues Brothers)
Driving back, north of Mossman we saw a small historic marker which read "WW2 Bomb Site" A slight diversion was in order. I thought I knew a bit of Australian WW2 history but I never new Townsville was raided four times.
Most people can tell you about the midget sub raid on Sydney harbor or the bombing of Darwin but when I asked people my own age if they new Townsville was bombed I drew a blank. Apparently "Emily" flying boats conducted the raids flying from Rabaul in 1942. A single bomb was dropped at this site in the middle of a sugar cane farm injuring a 2 year old girl. On the 50th anniversary of that event she opened this roadside monument shown attached.

Hope this is of interest to all the readers.

Cheers,
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  #65  
Old 03-05-17, 00:13
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Canvas cover- unidentified

Hi All,

This is sort of related to my Ford CMP restoration so will post it here:

Perhaps someone can identify it.

I pulled the canvas cover shown in the photos out of 20 year storage a few weeks ago to check its condition. It came with an F-15A I bought in the 90's.
I didn't think it was original, perhaps a replica, but upon close inspection it is not even close in size or design as it is about 6" too short on the body and has flaps on the side. When I looked inside I saw the markings "Michaelis Bayley 7-71"

It is obviously Vietnam Era by the date stamp and interestingly when I Googled Michaelis Bayley I learnt it is the company that currently makes Homey Ped Shoes. I guess shoe making sewing machines could fill a canvas sewing contract for the ADF.

My question is what does it fit? Vehicle? trailer?

Any info gratefully received.

Cheers,
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  #66  
Old 23-06-17, 01:24
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Bridge Clasification disks

Good Day All,

Firstly my apologies if this has been covered before but I am seeking some info on the bridge classification disks used on Australian CMP's.

I just need confirmation of the diameter and the thickness, or gauge, of the steel from which they are made.

I read somewhere that they are 6" in diameter but that does not seem to be the case based on the spacing of the bracket holes to hold it and a picture of what I believe to be an original on an F15. Rough proportioning from the photo of the original would put it at 7" to 7-1/2" diameter based on the 5" between centres of the mounting holes.

I also note from AWM photos "5" ton is the amount shown on a F15A disk. That seems high based on weight of vehicle and cargo capacity. Were different weights specified or did all F15A's get a 5 ton limit?

Thanks for any info. May try cutting out one on the lathe this winter if I can confirm the diameter and thickness. Bolted to a block of wood on a faceplate it shouldn't be too hard to do.

Cheers,
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  #67  
Old 23-06-17, 07:31
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Default Cutting discs on the lathe

Jaques be extra careful doing that I have seen some horrific accidents with tradesman doing the same thing.
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  #68  
Old 23-06-17, 08:14
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Cutting disks on lathe

Hi Gjamo,

Thanks for the advice. I plan to bolt the plate to the wood with coach screws through the disk mounting holes and also bolt the steel plate outside the circle to the wood so that it does not fly around when cut all the way through. That part is only going to be scrap so a few extra holes in it won't matter. Could see a real disaster happening there otherwise.

Light feeds with the compound slide should do it. Any other suggestions out there?

Cheers,
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  #69  
Old 23-06-17, 08:24
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Jacques

The method you describe should be effective. I did it once and no problems happened.

I think you might get into strife if you have the rpm's too high . Keep the revs down and feed gently . But as gjamo wrote, things can go wrong .
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  #70  
Old 23-06-17, 08:45
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Silly question but why such a high risk process? Why not scribe a circle, roughly cut it out with a thin cutting disk on an angle grinder and then finish to the scribe line with a grinding disk. !0 min job, no bits of metal flying around, no damage to your lathe, body intact.........


Jon
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  #71  
Old 23-06-17, 11:33
David Herbert David Herbert is offline
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I agree with Jonathan, much easier and quicker to do it with a grinder freehand and with a bit of care you won't be able to tell the difference. If you do it in the lathe you will still have to remove the sharp edge with either a file or grinder and flapwheel so some craftsmanship still needed.

Were the Australian bridging disks just flat metal as in the photo above or did they not have a profiled edge like the British ones ?

David
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  #72  
Old 23-06-17, 20:46
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Jacques,

I have a disc I believe is genuine item, around here somewhere.

You are welcome to have it, once found.

T
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  #73  
Old 23-06-17, 22:09
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Originally Posted by Jacques Reed View Post
I read somewhere that they are 6" in diameter but that does not seem to be the case based on the spacing of the bracket holes to hold it and a picture of what I believe to be an original on an F15. Rough proportioning from the photo of the original would put it at 7" to 7-1/2" diameter based on the 5" between centres of the mounting holes.

I also note from AWM photos "5" ton is the amount shown on a F15A disk. That seems high based on weight of vehicle and cargo capacity. Were different weights specified or did all F15A's get a 5 ton limit?
Jacques,

The diameter of the disc is the equal to the aperture of the headlight on CMPs.

The digit on the classification signs does not indicate the the weight of the vehicle, but the bridge weight class:
"The number designated the maximum weight class of vehicles which could safely cross that type of bridge".
Read more on this subject on the excellent Canadian Soldiers website.

HTH,
Hanno


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  #74  
Old 24-06-17, 00:06
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Bridge Classification Disks

My thanks to you all, Graeme, Mike, Jonathan, David, Tony and Hanno,

Your thoughts and ideas are most appreciated. Always good to get different ideas especially when it comes to safety. Most of us are keen amateurs so we don't always have the years of a metal working trade behind us to know all the risks. Much better to take a bit more time and a bit of fiddling around but do it safely.

I had originally considered cutting it out with my Ryobi sabre saw but I have found the blade wanders by 1-2 mm each side of the centre line. This is why the lathe method came to mind. The saw is relatively new and upon inspection I found the blade and holder can be wiggled 1-2 mm each side of the centre position. I found this out when I ripped a sheet of plywood using a bit of steel angle as a guide. I wondered why the cut was serpentine along the pencil line despite the guide.
The saw is good enough for cutting out plywood Santas at Christmas but that is about it. Not much good for an accurate cut. Doesn't seem to be any adjustment like a gib to take out the slack and upon checking other brands at the local hardware store they all have some degree of sloppiness there too. Design requirement or just cheap manufacturing?

So on that note I would be most appreciative to take up your offer of the disk Tony and that way save a bit of work at the same time. (Also keep all my eyes and fingers!)

Thanks too Hanno for that link. Makes a lot more sense now.

Cheers,
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  #75  
Old 27-06-17, 11:08
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Jaques so did any one end up identifying the canvas?
John
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  #76  
Old 27-06-17, 12:36
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Hi John,

No, still waiting for an ID on that one.

Forgot to mention in the post that it is 6-'6" wide by 7'-5" long with 2'-9" flaps.

Does that help a bit? Pretty sure it isn't Land Rover but too small for an ACCO. That is why I thought it was maybe a trailer tarp. What else was around in the Vietnam era in Australia?

Cheers,
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  #77  
Old 28-06-17, 12:39
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Default Canvas covers

Good day,
The little AT4 114 Dodges and the AB 120 Inters were around then. I will measure the body on my AT4 when I get a chance.

Cheers Ken
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  #78  
Old 29-06-17, 00:13
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Canvas cover identification

Hi Ken,

Thanks Ken. Your reply may have pointed me in the right direction.

The attached link to the HCVC shows a IH AB 120 with a very similar top. Not Army, but part of the National Mapping Agency. Perhaps this will help bring out another photo of an Army AB 120. I could not find one during a short Google search.

Cannot say it is exactly like mine but the proportions looks very similar even if the side flaps are different.

It is rather ironic in that my family owned a 1962 IH C120 4x4 Travelall Wagon when I was a boy in the USA. A huge 4 x 4 wagon in its day compared to Jeeps and IH Scouts.

Will look forward to seeing the dimensions of your AT4.

Cheers,

https://www.hcvc.com.au/forum/truck_...-120-4x4-story
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  #79  
Old 29-06-17, 07:11
Ken Smith Ken Smith is offline
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Originally Posted by Jacques Reed View Post
Hi John,

No, still waiting for an ID on that one.

Forgot to mention in the post that it is 6-'6" wide by 7'-5" long with 2'-9" flaps.

Does that help a bit? Pretty sure it isn't Land Rover but too small for an ACCO. That is why I thought it was maybe a trailer tarp. What else was around in the Vietnam era in Australia?

Cheers,
The AT4 body is 6'-9'' wide by 7'-3 1/2'' long. I am not sure about the side flaps as my hoops have been cut and modified to make a little cattle crate by the previous owner. The original canopy had been taken off, folded up and put under a bench when the truck arrived at the farm. It had been offered to the truck wrecker who I bought the truck from, but he didn't take it as he thought nobody would want it.
But yours is close enough for me to say, if you ever want to sell yours please let me know.

Ken
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Old 29-06-17, 07:23
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Jacques,
I measured a Ford Canada, stamped nose/front clip, minus headlights and you would have to put a 9 inch diameter disc into the headlight aperture for the bridge plate.
I realise you aren't planning to do that but that is a lot bigger than the Australian add on plate.
Ken
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  #81  
Old 29-06-17, 07:51
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Canvas Cover and Bridge Classification Disk

Hi Ken,

Thanks for that info. I had considered modifying the tarp to use on my F-15A but that goes against my grain for preservation of military artifacts. Let me think about it, but I may consider moving it on so it fits the appropriate vehicle without modifications. Just would like to find the nice heavy canvas used to make it without having to buy a container load of it from India.

Thanks for that info on the disk. I used my old friend Paint.net and taking measurements from the photo of the original and working out proportions I am 98% certain the disk is 7-1/2" diameter on the one under the right side headlight. As you noted, they obviously used larger diameter ones to fill the aperture where they placed the disk inside the headlight housing.

Will confirm the diameter and gauge of the steel when I receive the one Tony kindly offered me.

All the best,
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  #82  
Old 29-06-17, 20:03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Reed View Post
Thanks for that info on the disk. I used my old friend Paint.net and taking measurements from the photo of the original and working out proportions I am 98% certain the disk is 7-1/2" diameter on the one under the right side headlight. As you noted, they obviously used larger diameter ones to fill the aperture where they placed the disk inside the headlight housing.

Will confirm the diameter and gauge of the steel when I receive the one Tony kindly offered me.
The Canadian bridge classification disk was the same. At the factory, it was fitted in the headlight aperture. In theatre, if a need for a second headlight arose, the disk was moved to another spot and the headlight was fitted in the aperture.

Local assembly from Completely Kocked Down (CKD) kits meant the bare minimum of parts were shipped overseas unassembled, all the other parts which could be sourced locally, were. I reckon a simple disk was not shipped from Canada but made in Australia. So the gauge and diameter may well differ. I don't even know if Australian assembled trucks only had one headlight from the assembly line or two. In case of the latter the diameter of the disk didn't matter as it did not need to fulfill the function to block off the empty headlight aperture.


HTH,
Hanno
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Old 29-06-17, 23:40
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Bridge Disk diameters

Hi Hanno,

I cannot verify if Australian built CMP's were originally fitted with only one headlight but I have never seen an extant Australian assembled Ford CMP with just one. Hopefully others more knowledgeable can confirm it.

Wartime photos seem to show two headlights fitted in Aussie built trucks.

The brackets that holds the disk on my Australian built cab is spot-welded to the cowl which indicates a factory fitment rather than a field modification so the disk was always intended to be displayed there. At 5" between centres of mounting holes this would help to account for a different sized disk if locally sourced.

Cheers,
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Old 30-06-17, 04:20
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Hi Jacques,

The late 1960s/ early 1970s saw the intro of such vehicles as Ford XY utilities with bows and high canvas canopies. Not sure of the dimensions, but they were described as 'Truck Utility 3/4 ton CL with high canopy'. Maybe that is worth looking at as a possible application of the canopy you have.

The bridge sign on Aust military vehicles was originally painted directly on the right front of the vehicle in an irregular shape approximating an 8 inch circle. This later translated to an 8 inch disc fixed to the front right of the vehicle, painted yellow with the bridge weight painted on in black. The spec stated it had to be visible and readable to an observer from a certain distance - I think 50 yards. The bridge plate was the same colour as the plate affixed to the bridges themselves, so that the driver would equate the signage as having the same meaning. A driver approaching a bridge with a lesser number on the bridge plate of the bridge than the number on his truck bridge plate was not permitted to cross under most circumstances.

The gauge of the steel disc appears to have varied, (along with the diameter), with what I believe to have been original discs in 16#, 18# and 20# being observed by me over the years. All were simple, raw edged discs without any pressing like the later discs fixed to Land Rovers etc, or rolled edge.

Bridge discs were not supplied in the CMP inventory of parts from Canada, but were part of the local production. The disc was never fitted to the headlamp 'socket' of Australian-assembled/manufactured CMPs, as the Aust Army requirement was always for two functional headlamps.

The bridge weight for a 15cwt CMP varied with the vehicle type. For GS 4x4 CMP vehicles, the sign was '4', being the maximum gross laden weight rounded to even tons. For CMP signals office & office CMP trucks in 4x4, the bridge weight was '5'.

The MVFS specification goes a step further, stating '3' for unladen and '4' for laden for the CMP 15-cwt GS 4x4, and for 4x2 six seater utilities, the bridge sign was '4' unladen and '5' laden. Of course, the unladen spec is irrelevant to the marking of the bridge plate, which by necessity has to reflect the gross laden weight.

Hope that all makes sense.

Mike
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Old 30-06-17, 05:13
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Unknown canvas and bridge disks

Hi Mike,

That is great! Makes great sense and fully explains it all. I have seen it painted on the right front cowl as per photo but I think it is not original but a later owners handiwork. Originally it was very bright and clear but twenty years out in the weather has taken its toll.

That cowl does not have the brackets for the disk even though it is from an Australian bodied vehicle.

Will look into Ford XY utes in Army service regarding the canvas canopy.

Cheers,
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Old 30-06-17, 05:22
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Jacques,

The inclusion of the two little brackets on the front cowl depends on the date of production and the make. You don't seem to see them in images until some time in 1943, so I suggest a design change happened during the first half of 1943, but I'd have to do some more study of images to confirm that belief, and have not found any documents supporting that theory. Of course, imported trucks from the early cab 13 supply contracts (such the in the 55xxx series) were CDN made and did not have the little brackets.

Both Ford and Holden were supplying utes with high canopies to the Army around that time (late 60/early 70s). A scan of the later volumes of AWM126 will give you a good idea of what was being purchased during the period up to 1972.

Mike
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Old 30-06-17, 06:38
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Bridge Disks and canopies

Hi Mike,

Again, thanks for your great help. Your wealth of military history knowledge is astonishing!

I will persist with the front mounted disk as I believe the truck is about 1944 production so it would be in keeping. Original cowl had a lot of wastage, dents, and the top front crossmember missing but a better intact one came along. Both have the spot welded on brackets for the disk.

I have never found a chassis serial number at the places mentioned in this forum, top of the right side frame near the front engine crossmember or on the vertical side below it. It has entered my mind that perhaps it was assembled from parts post-war and never issued a s/n. Could that be a possibility?

Wheels were stamped 1943 and the round gauges led me to believe it is late war but who knows.

Will keep searching for the vehicle the canopy fits based on yours and Ken's leads.

Many thanks again.

Jacques
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  #88  
Old 05-10-17, 04:12
Jacques Reed Jacques Reed is offline
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Default Australian Bridge Classification Disks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Cecil View Post
Hi Jacques,

The gauge of the steel disc appears to have varied, (along with the diameter), with what I believe to have been original discs in 16#, 18# and 20# being observed by me over the years. All were simple, raw edged discs without any pressing like the later discs fixed to Land Rovers etc, or rolled edge.

Bridge discs were not supplied in the CMP inventory of parts from Canada, but were part of the local production. The disc was never fitted to the headlamp 'socket' of Australian-assembled/manufactured CMPs, as the Aust Army requirement was always for two functional headlamps.

The bridge weight for a 15cwt CMP varied with the vehicle type. For GS 4x4 CMP vehicles, the sign was '4', being the maximum gross laden weight rounded to even tons. For CMP signals office & office CMP trucks in 4x4, the bridge weight was '5'.

The MVFS specification goes a step further, stating '3' for unladen and '4' for laden for the CMP 15-cwt GS 4x4, and for 4x2 six seater utilities, the bridge sign was '4' unladen and '5' laden. Of course, the unladen spec is irrelevant to the marking of the bridge plate, which by necessity has to reflect the gross laden weight.

Hope that all makes sense.

Mike
Thanks again Mike,

And my great thanks goes to Tony Baker who kindly sent me the attached bridge classification disk. With all that is happening in his life health wise, the effort is even more appreciated as he has enough things on his plate than bothering about passing on a bit of old steel to a fellow collector.

As Mike said, they were locally produced so there were variations in diameter and steel gauge but as I am sure this is 100% original it is worth noting its dimensions. I am in no doubt there are other variations.

It is exactly 7-1/2" diameter with 5" BC of the mounting holes which are 3/16" diameter. This one is made from 16 gauge steel which is in keeping with other items on the truck made of 16 gauge steel such as the tool box and tyre chain boxes.

Of interest, after I soaked it in phosphoric acid to clean up the rust stains, the disk was entirely painted in camouflage light earth colour, even over the number. A bit of light wet sanding on what looks like a Ishihara test for colour blindness shows a number "6" under the light earth. The number is exactly 4" high. It is almost a shame to remove the original paint and number as I need to change it to a 4 according to Mikes info. for my F-15A. I also noted it was originally painted yellow on both sides.

Hope this is of some interest to fellow Australian CMP truck restorers.

Cheers,
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F15-A 1942 Battery Staff

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Last edited by Jacques Reed; 21-10-17 at 23:21. Reason: Change paint colour from sand to light earth
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  #89  
Old 05-10-17, 04:56
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Mike Kelly Mike Kelly is offline
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Default bridge disc

Regarding the bridge discs, I have a example apparently salvaged from a Morris.
This disc has a shaped edge , thus giving it extra rigidity .

Years ago we found the remains of a WOT2 in a wrecking yard in Nth Victoria. We salvaged the bridge disc off the Wot2 , and this disc has the same shaped edge and the WOT part number stamped on .
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Old 05-10-17, 17:04
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Hi Jacques,

There were several vehicles that were classed '6' (laden), such as Platform lorries, some breakdown lorries, the kitchen lorry and so on.

CMP 3 ton GS trucks were classed '7', machinery trucks were '8'.

If it were me, I'd be keeping the original 'as is' and replicating it for the F15A.

Mike K: Nice finds, Mike. These sound like bridge plates from British-sourced vehicles not assembled locally, so imported with the British pattern plate with the rolled edge already fitted.

Mike
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