4X2 vehicle with steel tray - ID required

[Bruce Gilbert]

Hello from Sydney (Oz, that is!)

I need some assistance in identifying the following vehicle:-
1) 2 wheel drive
2) all steel tray with steel tailgate
3) Plate on side of tray says in part:-
3.1) "Canadian Top & ???? Corp Ltd
3.2) ?????? Canada
3.3) SN 4203 2 5775

4) V8 engine - both heads have screw-in plates, one which has what looks like "C81T 8060".
5)Red-painted wheel nuts
6) rifle butt holders on floor behind/to side of both seats
7) rectangular/square (not round) roof hatch.
8) No sign of nomenclature plates. (Q: Where would they be? Also, where would the chassis etc ID's be?).

All help and advise much appreciated. Can provide piccies in a few days.

Thanks

Bruce G

[aj.lec]

Most likely a ford f15
Pictures would be handy
nomenclature plates are usually at the top of the dash

[Tony Smith]

Pictures of the vehicle really would make this easier!

The truck is a Ford, but it could be one of several models. You haven't given any description of the size of the truck, length of the tray, or cab arrangement.
It could be:
A '41-'45 F15 2wd Blitz, or
A '38-'41 C81T, C91T or C01T Modified Commercial Pattern, or
A '42-'45 FC60L Modified Commercial Pattern 3 ton truck, or
A '42-'45 C218T Civillian 3 ton truck.

Ford vehicles in Aust service did not always have chassis numbers stamped on the chassis, and when a number IS found on the chassis, it is the engine number which does not necessarily ID the type of vehicle. Canadian factory data plates could be found on the Driver's door, the dash panel or on the engine cover DEPENDING ON WHAT TYPE OF CAB is on the truck. The Aust Army Nomenclature plate is fitted on the dash or engine cover, again depending on cab design.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bruce Gilbert

Can provide piccies in a few days.

In the meantime, does it look like this?

Source: http://www.imagecontrol.com.au/oldcm...l#Anchor-49575

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bruce Gilbert

3) Plate on side of tray says in part:-
3.1) "Canadian Top & ???? Corp Ltd
3.2) ?????? Canada
3.3) SN 4203 2 5775

Sounds like the one on my truck (see attachment) which reads:

Canadian Top & Body Corp. Ltd.
Tilbury, Ontario, Canada
serial no. 42 03 2C1 7025

Last line denotes year - month - body type - serial number. It is important to get the "2C1" bit as this designates the body type.

HTH,
Hanno

[Bruce Gilbert]

Folks, thanks for your replies. I will get some piccies up about next Tues/Wed.

Some more info: the tray is approx 6'8" (six foot eight inches) long. Twin fuel tanks, one each side. The tailgate is an unusual type of double-skinned design, as if both skins were pressed and folded over/joined.

There is a feint "4" on the front driver's side, near headlight (perhaps bridge classification plate?).

Andrew

'at the top of the dash' - do you mean an area above the speedo? If the plate is missing (which I think it is) would I be looking for screw/rivet holes as evidence?

Tony

Where would I look on the chassis for an ID? The vehicle has 4 very flat tyres, and is thus sitting close to the ground. I can arrange for the vehicle to be lifted for a better look see for chassis ID details.

Re. data plates; if they are missing, should I be looking for screw/rivet holes, the location of which would thus - possibly - tell me the vehicle/cab species.

Hanno
Yes, your picture looks a lot like 'my' truck. The same slight 'wheel arches' above the rear wheels, and similar tarp lash-down hooks on the side. There are no upper door window sections. Same-ish wheel nut configerations.


Will be in touch.

Bruce

[cletrac (RIP)]

The early 13 cabs used the 2B1 box with the fold down sides. If yours doesn't have fold down sides this means it would be made after say March 1942. The rectangular roof hatch was used until early 1944 so there's your year range. The only place I've seen serial numbers stamped in F15 frames is on the top of the frame by the front motor mounts. Fords also usually have the engine number on the top of the transmission ahead of the shift lever. The data plates were screwed onto the dash above the gauges on the horizontal surface. The holes should be there. The 2J1 box is the only one that's 80 inches long. It's similar to the 2C1 but it was bolted together. The 2C1 box was 82 inches long.

[Bruce Gilbert]

Gidday David, from a warm winter's day in Sydney (8-19c for the next week or so).

Thanks for your input - the box (tray?) doesn't have fold-down sides, and as mentioned before, the cab has a rectangular hatch. However, the box may not belong to the truck, as it is sitting on, but not secured to, the chassis rails. The tail gate does have half-moon cut-outs for boots when in the open position.

I will run my tape over it next week, plus some piccies.

Could the vehicle be a Ford OR a Chev? Any mechanical differences to help me identify which is is?. The diff is 'almost' central to the axle; perhaps off-centre by about an inch. Again, tape measure next week.

As this vehicle is 2wd, were there any Ford/Chev. differences in the front (and/or rear) axle construction/design.

Given that the cab has a lot of rust (in summer it could be called 'air-conditioning'), would it be better to locate another cab? Were there differences between Ford/Chev. cabs from model to model or year to year?

Thanks for you help, and thos of others, in this.

Regards

Bruce

[aj.lec]

There is a possibility of it being a bitsa vehicle but is hard to say without seeing pictures , measurements etc.
Many modifications have been done to vehicles over the years as you expect from 65+ year old vehicles . A lot of vehicles are mix and match with other brands thrown in for bad measure
There are quite a few differences between ford and chev
the most basic ones are
-Chev diffs are banjo style (having a full case with the crown/pinion/input shaft plate bolt on the front and plate on the back) Ford has a split type diff(frrom front to back)
-Chev have 6 cylinder engines Ford has 8
-chassis are different and engine mounting points are different ,chev at the front, Ford to the sides
-Chev brush guards have legs front and rear of bumper Ford mounted behind bar
-Generally (in 13 cabs) Chev grills are extruded mesh Ford are woven bar

The nomenclature plate in 13 cab generally is above the speedo to the right side of the speedo facia panel ,you should see 4 rivet holes in a rectangular pattern if removed

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Bruce Gilbert

Tony
Where would I look on the chassis for an ID? The vehicle has 4 very flat tyres, and is thus sitting close to the ground. I can arrange for the vehicle to be lifted for a better look see for chassis ID details.

Re. data plates; if they are missing, should I be looking for screw/rivet holes, the location of which would thus - possibly - tell me the vehicle/cab species.

Hanno
Yes, your picture looks a lot like 'my' truck.

Bruce

You may not find any number stamped on the chassis at all, that won't be in any way strange or unusual. If there is one, it will be on the forward part of the left chassis rail between the front spring hanger anfd the bracket for the cab mount, either on the face or top edge of the chassis rail. There have been instances of the number being in a similar position on the right ch rails.

If your truck looks like Hanno's pic, we can eliminate it being an MCP. It is a '42-'45 13 cab F15 Blitz!

The data plates (Canadian factory = Tin/Zinc) should be on the top surface of the dash above the speedo, as shown on the 2 examples pictured. The Aust Army nomenclature plate (Brass) will be on the engine cover, either on the rear facing sloping panel with the handle, or on the side facing the driver. (I've pictured my Jeep one for clarity )

In the absence of any data plates or chassis stamping, establishing the identity of the truck will come down to determining the year and engine number (Am I asking a stupid question to inquire if there is the remains of any painted number on the cowl either side of the bonnet?) Again, finding the engine number is not a sure bet! It could be in a couple of places on the engine or the gearbox as shown.

[Bruce Gilbert]

Gents - thanks for this info. I will doing some more research on this vehicle, hopefully Tuesday next week, and will report back soon after, hopefully with some piccies as well as more info, measurements, etc.

Thanks

Bruce

[Bruce Gilbert]

Folks

Herewith some piccies of this vehicle - a Ford as per its front axle cup.

I was not able to get it lifted of the ground. Its engine cover has no data plates on it nor in the cabin or on/near the dashboard. Could not even see a plate for high/low range instructions, etc.

As you will see the cab and tray are quite rusty; not sure if they can be restored. If another cab was fitted, would it be noticeable if it was from another Ford (a 4X4, as per one or more of my piccies.). Or even ......... a Chev? I ask this is because there is another cab available.


(more piccies to follow)

In anticipation, thanks.

Bruce

[Bruce Gilbert]

Some more piccies, this time a Ford 4X4.

The rear wheel with the attached gear sprocket is on the 4X2.

[Keith Webb]

The F15 is an Australian cab with a Canadian body which although rusty has it's wheel arch boxes intact. These were often cut off to give more clear space.

[cliff]

Originally Posted by Bruce Gilbert

If another cab was fitted, would it be noticeable if it was from another Ford (a 4X4, as per one or more of my piccies.). Or even ......... a Chev? I ask this is because there is another cab available.

The Ford Cab 13 which you have pictured has the same cab regardless of model (ie 4X2, 4X4, 15cwt, 30cwt, 60cwt) so the 4X4 cab will fit the 4X2. There are differences between the Ford and Chev 13 cabs though so it would pay to stick to Ford parts.

Rear original trays are very hard to get though so if it is repairable you are better to keep what you have even though it is an Aussie cab and Canadian rear tray you have pictured as Keith said.

[Bob McNeill]

Nice find, most good bits repairable, the 4x2 is a good start point very straight forward resto no fiddly transfer case, parts easy to get. best of luck.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by cliff

The Ford Cab 13 which you have pictured has the same cab regardless of model (ie 4X2, 4X4, 15cwt, 30cwt, 60cwt) so the 4X4 cab will fit the 4X2.

To be a bit pedantic there are small differences in the floor plates in the rear of the cab between the F15, F15A and F60L but these parts are interchangeable.
Where I mentioned it has an Australian cab there are also quite a few differences between that and the Canadian one but either will of course fit.

That one looks like it has an unhealthy band of rust around the rear cab join.