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  #1  
Old 29-07-06, 20:10
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Pedr Pedr is offline
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Question Your Track

I have been wondering ( was hoping more guys would respond in another thread)

what would you each prefer and why??

(A) Sixty year old, New old stock track that has never been fitted to a carrier ( British, Canadian, Australian, Indian, American or whatever the case may be )
BUT, as it has been stored outdoors for the past sixty years is seized.

OR

(B) Second hand used track somewhat worn but still ok It'd probably be ok if you don't drive too many miles and don't turn too tightly on grass or loose surfaces.

OR

(C) Brand new reproduction fresh cast track Just made from new cast iron.

AND

What would you expect to have to pay for each??

Why do I ask ?

I work in a design office at a manufacturing firm in Adelaide, Australia. Most of my time is spent on computers, designing aircraft parts for warbird restorers www.aeroformaustralia.com , as such management ( My Uncle ) is very simpathetic to the restorer's cause.

We deal with companies globally and have containers of "stuff" arriving and leaving all the time.

I do not have sufficient track for my own carrier restoration. I could go and buy some but my father, a Mechanical Engineer says that old track will not be as malleable as new track.

I don't intend to sit and look at my carrier when ( WHEN??? ) she's finished - I want to use her. So I don't want track that I can't use much for fear of wearing it out.

I may be able to find suitable manufacturers that are able to rough cast track to suit any carrier.

If I know what you all think, and what you might expect to pay for this I may be able to get the ball rolling.

Pedr
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  #2  
Old 30-07-06, 00:45
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Tony Smith Tony Smith is offline
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Default

Some many threads ago, one of the West Australians (Rod, Wayne, anyone?) posted on the Networks54 Forum that they still had one of the casting patterns for track links from the State Engineering Works production of WA carriers. I know that pattern making is something of a craft with every dimension being oversize and different thicknesses to allow for cooling and shrinkage. Wouldn't life be easier with an original pattern mould?

I'd probably prefer original links, or new links cast from ORIGINAL steel, as today's steel alloys are c*** compared to that of the 40's. China gets the good stuff and gives us the slag.

ADI Lithgow was casting and machining the track links for the Aust fleet of M113 carriers at one stage, and would still have the capability to cast (and source?) the malleable cast iron.
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  #3  
Old 30-07-06, 03:39
Wayne Henderson Wayne Henderson is offline
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Default Carrier track links

I still have some original track casting bits, sitting in my shed as a memento of times very passed.

Wayne Henderson.
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  #4  
Old 30-07-06, 04:11
ron ron is offline
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Default tracks,

What you say about the NOS track that has been stored outdoors for sixty years and has siezed is true, but on a few occasions I have found it in sheds and it has been there since the owner got his machine and never used it, I once found a set of track in an outside toilet, rolled up in its 22 links wired and tagged, but this is rare nowdays,New track is the way to go, And I think that most of us would put our hand up for that,I think with a lot of people cost may be a problem,I have been asking around up here. It all depends what you have in mind? just rough cast links, or finished reamed holes etc? But it is really the only way to go in the future as more and more carriers come on line and the old track is used up, keep us informed on your progress I for one
would be very interested Regards,
Ron
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  #5  
Old 30-07-06, 11:50
David Ellery David Ellery is offline
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Default track

I'm sure there would be a few takers over this side of the Tasman as there are quite a few LP2s still in existence. I've been trying to hunt down track locally for my LP for the last year without to much luck,although I got my hands on a fair amount of stretched stuff just recently which I'm slowly repinning. So new track would get a serious look in. I looked at producing links through a local foundary here but the tooling costs alone were rather steep . So if you guys can get hold of the original molds that would be quite a big step in the right direction. I will watch this thread with interest. Cheers David...
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  #6  
Old 30-07-06, 14:18
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gjamo gjamo is offline
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Default Track links

This old thread on track links may be enlightening.
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ght=track+link
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  #7  
Old 30-07-06, 14:23
ron ron is offline
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Default tracks

Hi David,
Just a quick question. regarding new pins, what are you using for pins? and what type of steel are you using?

Regards, Ron
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  #8  
Old 31-07-06, 04:26
cmp_uc_guy cmp_uc_guy is offline
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Default Old track, reamed and overpinned

Guys,

I think a good alternative to all that work (I do casting and pattern making and its tough) would be ream out the old links a few thou to 13mm and use 1/2" case hardened pins. I've already made 300 of them and fabricated the jig to keep the reamer (extended reamer) going straight.

Made up a section of track with it to, it had all the properties needed flexability wise plus its TIGHT!

You can argue about "taking away meat" but I've seen carriers that ran on track that was worn right through at the sprocket wear spot. Theres a way to fix that to.

Rob Groves
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  #9  
Old 31-07-06, 05:22
David Ellery David Ellery is offline
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Default track links

Hi Ron.
I'm doing the same as rob, reaming out to 13mm with 1/2 inch pins , although I have to set up a jig as free hands rather tricky. I'll use case hardened pins as well but to date was trying a section with mild steel just to see how it would cope. I've used Sellys steel knead it to plug the ends of the links, sets really hard and looks the part .Would still be keen on new links though even if its just rough cast . David...
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  #10  
Old 31-07-06, 11:43
ron ron is offline
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Default tracks

Hi Rob,
Well that sounds like a good way to go, Do you have a pic of the jig that you have made up, I have no problem with removing any metal, I agree with you on this point I have seen track that is really worn and used it, any track is better than none, Would be interested to hear how you rebuild the sprocket drive part,
Regards,
Ron.
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  #11  
Old 31-07-06, 11:48
ron ron is offline
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Default tracks,

Hi David,
thanks thanks for the reply, it sounds very interesting what you are doing, I would be interested in seeing a pic of the jig that you are using to hold the track link, Can we get Hi Tensile steel pins instead of case hardened ones, just a thought,
Regards,
Ron.
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  #12  
Old 18-08-06, 11:25
Rob Beale Rob Beale is offline
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Default track pins

Hi

some in NZ have used X4150, (or 4140) centreless ground shafting for track pins. No problems so far.

Some one in Qld suggested using lead ball projectiles from black powder type ammo. (They are apparently a softer lead than the alloy used in 9mm projectiles!?!) The balls go in alright, but don't have as much volume as the original plugs, so there is a bit of a cavity. Again, alright so far!

Rob

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  #13  
Old 18-08-06, 13:37
ron ron is offline
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Default lead plugs,

Hi Rob,
Regarding the 9mm projectiles they are normaly cast quite hard so that they dont deform when feeding from the magazine, We always used one part tin to ten parts lead in other words 10 pounds of lead to one pound of tin, you will find that if you use 38 special wad cutter cast bullets cast as pure lead they are perfect and will upsett nicely into the track groove, try your local pistol club most members cast their own bullets, the ones bought in a store are usualy a bit harder,
Ron,
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  #14  
Old 20-08-06, 13:19
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is online now
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Default Track pins

David, I think your probably going to be disapointed with mild steel track pins. Does any body have a spec on the originals, that they might post here, for the benefit of those who have to make them.
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  #15  
Old 20-08-06, 15:07
Alex Blair (RIP) Alex Blair (RIP) is offline
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Default Re: lead plugs,

Quote:
Originally posted by ron
Hi Rob,
Regarding the 9mm projectiles they are normaly cast quite hard so that they dont deform when feeding from the magazine, We always used one part tin to ten parts lead in other words 10 pounds of lead to one pound of tin, you will find that if you use 38 special wad cutter cast bullets cast as pure lead they are perfect and will upsett nicely into the track groove, try your local pistol club most members cast their own bullets, the ones bought in a store are usualy a bit harder,
Ron,
Ron...
I hand loaded and cast my own 9MM stuff and fired t'ousands of rounds of it with no barrel fouling(Too soft) or measureable wear(Too hard)...
The right mix is readily available ,usually free....Used wheel weights..
They pay to dispose of them at the tire shops and would probably be glad to see them carted off..
At least they used to,,,,with the price of metals these days ,they probably recycle,but that is the right hardness for ammo..and probably track pins.
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  #16  
Old 20-08-06, 23:38
David Ellery David Ellery is offline
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Default Re: Track pins

Quote:
Originally posted by Lynn Eades
David, I think your probably going to be disapointed with mild steel track pins. Does any body have a spec on the originals, that they might post here, for the benefit of those who have to make them.
Hi Lynn. yeah I agree, I only did a small section to see how it would all fit etc. Rob B what exactly is x4150 or 4140 centreless ground shafting that has been used for pins. David....
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  #17  
Old 21-08-06, 11:44
ron ron is offline
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Default Lead plugs,

Hi Alex,
Sorry I may not have made clear what I meant,I was suggesting using pure lead cast 38 wad cutters only because they are the correct diameter and the fact that the pure lead will upsett easer into the groove in the track where as the harder alloy may not upsett quite as easy, this is a great forum we certainly cover a lot of different subjects in our chosen field
regards, Ron,
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  #18  
Old 01-09-06, 11:32
cmp_uc_guy cmp_uc_guy is offline
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Default Track pins "reproduction"

Guys, maybe you already know but I now have the reproduction Pins on ebay There will be 7/16th and 1/2inch available in lots of 5.
With these and decent link holes you'll take up quite a bit of slack...probly have to put a few links back in.

Note: I will soon be putting track jigs on ebay to make it easier to ream 13mm for the 1/2 inch pins.

Keyword: "Bren carrier universal"

Rob Groves
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  #19  
Old 02-09-06, 08:24
ron ron is offline
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Default jig

Hi Rob.
Thats good news regarding the jig for the pins Please advise when you intend to list them,
Regards,
Ron,
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