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Pass plate
On pictures of military vehicles taken from the rear, there is a plate with the word PASS written on it. What is the purpose of these plates?
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Re: Pass plate
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Richard 1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2 Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS KVE President & KVE News Editor |
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is it also possible....?
Hi there, that's an interesting theory. I always thought they were used so people knew which side to pass. Because the English and Canadian weren't used to drive on the right side of the road. Also when approaching vehicles on desert roads is sometimes difficult to see/understand at which side the upcomming vehicle will pass.
It's only a theory though. (p.s. I do have an original (from stock) pass-sign holder. I got it years ago from Canada.) I wonder if there's a theory which can be confirmed... Roland |
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Richard is correct they were used on convoy vehicles that were stopped for whatever reason to tell the rest of the convoy to keep moving and not stop.
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Cheers Cliff Hutchings aka MrRoo S.I.R. "and on the 8th day he made trucks so that man, made on the 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night" MrRoo says "TRUCKS ROOLE" |
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all right. That's sorted out then :-)
thanks! Roland |
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Backwards convoys?
Not to be a fly in the ointment but why have the plates on the front... convoys tend to follow.
There must be a reference in MT instructions from the period. Cheers! Mike
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Mike Calnan Ubique! ("Everywhere", the sole Battle Honour of the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery) www.calnan.com/swords |
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I knew it!!! :-) there must be on other reason fot those plates.
p.s. many vehicles are also suplied with a sign saying:"cauting, left hand drive". So their must be much confusion in which side to drive/ overtake / overall roadrules etc. any othere possibles ideas...? |
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Vehicles 'PASS' each other from both directions. The sign is for all vehicles approaching not just the Convoy vehicles. an extract from Original orders Australian Forces Q.NNG/MJ COPY SECRET 51/402/397 Army Headquarters, Victoria Barracks. MELBOURNE. S C 1 27 Feb 42. SM 3636 VEHICLE MARKING IN WAR - UNIT SIGNS 3. Particular attention is drawn to the frequent misuse of the sign plates i.e. showing the word “PASS” outwards, as it is an official demand for traffic priority. The purpose of the PASS sign is to indicate that the vehicle has stopped and may be passed. Before the vehicle moves on the plate must be turned to the normal position concealing the word “PASS”.
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Cheers Cliff Hutchings aka MrRoo S.I.R. "and on the 8th day he made trucks so that man, made on the 7th day, had shelter when woman threw him out for the night" MrRoo says "TRUCKS ROOLE" Last edited by cliff; 08-05-07 at 22:11. |
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Peter Hodges in "British Military Markings 1939 - 1945" is a bit vague on dates but states "At one time during the early part of the war, the Arm of Service mark took the form of a reversible plate...had the word 'Pass' in white on a khaki background and this aspect was shown in the event of a mechanical breakdown. The arrangement did not survive long and the Arm of Service mark was then painted directly."
Michael D Taylor in the updated version goes on to say that formation and unit serials were painted directly by 1942 but that plates and holders were to be retained until unserviceable. RASC Transport Companies seem to have retained them for longer. |
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Re: is it also possible....?
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Roland, Would you be so kind as to post pictures, dimensions, etc. of the 'PASS' plate holder? We have made up a few, using guesswork and working from photos, but since there is one in captivity......
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George Cross Island |
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Re: Re: is it also possible....?
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Film maker 42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains 42 FGT No9 (Aust) 42 F15 Keith Webb Macleod, Victoria Australia Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern |
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Original "Pass" sign in it's Vehicle Unit Sign bracket:
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Modern day survivor (the rear brace appears slightly different?):
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The plate was 8 1/2in wide and 9in high. The lettering of the "Pass" was stated in orders to be 5 1/2in high, but it would appear in the B+W pic I posted to be about 3in high.
The use of the "Pass" sign on the back of the unit tac sign is mentioned in Aust standing orders from Apr 40 to Mar 67. |
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no problem, I'll have a look this weekend. it should be somewhere i my shed...
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Americans in 1939-40?
If the plates and/or "caution" signs were introduced to avoid confusion for drivers more comfortable with the right hand side of the road, I suspect it was Canadians not Americans that forced the issue. Our esteemed cousins to the South didn't arrive in Blighty until 1942 after Pearl Harbour.
When did the "Caution" signs become mandatory? Mike
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Mike Calnan Ubique! ("Everywhere", the sole Battle Honour of the Royal Regiment of Canadian Artillery) www.calnan.com/swords Last edited by Gunner; 09-05-07 at 14:06. |
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Quote:
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PASS/UNIT SIGN plates
The back brace arm is part of the plate. When it was manufactured, the stamping cut a tongue in the back. If mounted flat against rear panel of vehicle, one left it untouched. If mounted on front, e.g. Cab 11 or 12 CMP, one folded it back so that bolt hole fitted under headlight leading edge so headlight mounting bolt could be removed, the plate brace slid in, then the bolt reinstalled. The two variations shown in photos above simply show how soldiers bent the back brace.
Have a look at my web site's page on Cdn vehicle markings. http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/markings_...y_vehicles.htm The CAUTION LEFT HAND DRIVE is a separate issue. COLIN
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Colin MacGregor Stevens, CD Richmond, BC |
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Here's a scan of an original pass sign holder off my 2A1 box. On the 2A1 it just used three of the bolts to hold it on. The other one was out in the open. The image is actual size.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
#20
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PASS plate holder
The image is upside down.
This shows one I had with back bracing arm partly bent back. I added the little white dots on the picture to show the fold-over edges. Main body width is 21.7 cm Width including the attaching tabs (2 on each side) 23.9 cm Height 24 cm Made out of one pieces of sheet metal. Here is an original PASS plate. This shows the other side with the UNIT SIGN. This particular one was repainted on this side only in the 1970s by a previous owner. I got this from Dr. William Gregg, but he had not painted it. COLIN
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Colin MacGregor Stevens, CD Richmond, BC |
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If you print the image I posted with Photoshop or the like, and print without scaling it, it will print actual size. On most printers it will be too big for the page so you'll have to print one that doesn't go off the left side of the page and ditto for the right side and join the two.
Colin, how did you manage to post an image that's 1800 pixels wide? It's not supposed to accept one that"s more than 700 wide.
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1940 Cab 11 C8 Wireless with 1A2 box & 11 set 1940 Cab 11 C8 cab and chassis 1940 Cab 11 C15 with 2A1 & Motley mount & Lewis gun 1940 Cab 11 F15A w/ Chev rear ends 1941 Cab 12 F15A 1942-44 Cab 13 F15A x 5 1942 cab 13 F15A with 2B1 box 1943 cab 13 F15A with 2H1 box 1943 Cab 13 C8A HUP 1944 Cab 13 C15A with 2C1 box 1943 Cletrac M2 High Speed Tractor MkII Bren gun carrier chassis x 2 |
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Photos
At the moment I can only post links to photos that I have on the Internet.
Having been away from MLU for a couple of years I have forgotten how to post an ordinary JPEG that I have on my computer to MLU. I have tried and ... no luck. I would welcome a refresher training instruction because I have hundreds of photos I'd like to share when it helps to answer someone's question or to illustrate a point - historical, photos taken of rare vehicles and weapons etc. Using "IMG" does not work as it won't allow one to browse, only put in a URL of a photo already on the Internet. SO ... HOW DOES ONE INSERT PHOTOS (not already on Internet) INTO MESSAGE TO MLU?
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Colin MacGregor Stevens, CD Richmond, BC |
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Re: Photos
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? |
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