Repro 15cwt GS box cover

[Bob Carriere]

HI Stew...art

I am good for one OD..... but would like to know more about the waterproofing.....is it standard tent/canvas water proofing....?

I have done canvas tents before and the major part is the labour... and messy.....but for the $$$ I might do my own.... or only drive on sunny days.

Can you elaborate...?

Boob

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball

I don't know if there were colour variations, but the tan tarp shown on the 15cwt in the MLU pages is original, war-dated with C-broad arrow...

Originally Posted by Stewart Loy

Gents,

Here is the pricing from the canvas supplier:

#10 Olive Drab or Tan Canvas Tarp: $600.00
External Waterproofing Applied by Hornsby Canvas: $175.00 (not required for Tan Coloured Tarp)
External Waterproofing Purchased and Applied by Customer: $120.00

If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Example: Tan w/waterproof with 4 windows w/rope = 600+175+100+50=$925

Stewart

Regards the Waterproofing, is it required on the Tan canvas or not?

As far as stencilling any markings on canvas go, is it applied BEFORE the waterproofing or AFTER. And what colour was the stencilling? I expect the Tan canvas would have Black (but could also be Violet as on '37 Patt webbing), and the Olive canvas could also be Black stencilling, but might also be Yellow as noted also on webbing.

Colouring and/or stencilling on webbing used to be done here with a product called Raven Oil, but the local Office Supplies company sells inkpad refill inks in Black, Violet, Red, Green and Yellow and would be fine to use with a sponge and stencil.

[Mike Kelly]

for what its worth.. someone local to me uncovered a stash of 1942 108 wireless set canvas covers some years ago... they are stenciled in black ..in brand new condition ..made here somewhere . The canvas is a light yellowy beige colour .

I'm presently making a new top for my series 1 landy..been looking for the heavy 20 oz duck canvas they used originally.. no luck so far ..so I'm using cheap 16 oz stuff made in Pakistan ... its 60 bucks for a 12' X 9' ..don't know how it will last though .

I've got an old original 1952 top on loan ... its not exactly like a 1950 top, but close enough ... the colour you see in the pics is deceptive as it has faded to a yellow/browny natural cotton..the original 1952 colour is found inside the folded seams .. a rich emerald grass green colour ... the difference is remarkable
Mike

[Stewart Loy]

Gents,

Boob is correct - the waterprooferizing is a messy business that can be done to the OD cloth. The fabric comes with a bit of waterproofing on the thread - so it is 'water resistant'. If it is to be used extensivly out of doors it should be waterproof sprayed. The canvasmith does it just like you and I would - with a pump sprayer. It is a bit smelly, and she pays her foplks to do it, so the price is labour and materials. The tan cloth got that done at the factory, and needs no more.

I have not even thought of stencils - but they should be done prior to waterproofing. If it were me: I would get the tarp without the waterproof treatment, paint stencils, THEN spray the canvas with a commercial ( or homemade ) spray to waterproof. I googled a concoction of soya oil and turpentine that sounds like it would be waterproof and smelly! The sample tarp has black ink for the stencils.

The hold down rope is easier to find that the canvas lady says - check the internet. I may make some of the clips Mike and Grant have worked on.

The canvas shop is down for 2 weeks at Xmas, so production will likely wait for straps and clips and get underway in late January 2009.

Send PMs and get on the list.


Stewart

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Stewart ..
How is the water proofing holding up on the tarp I gave you a few years ago..??
If it is still ok,I will share my method with you...for a pint of Ripple..

[Stewart Loy]

Alex,

That canvas sheet you gave me is still very waterproof - I use it to keep the T-16 drivers compartment dry when rainy parades send the convertible top gang running for cover. I am not scared to get my hair wet, but driving with wet pants gives me 'the creeps', as it were ...

That fabric is a bit thinner than this tarp stuff, but the same fluid would probably work as well.

The soya bean oil and turpentine spray on as suggestd on the WWW is a thing best done out of doors and off the truck. I suspect that the person doing the spraying would also become waterproof, and smell like a cheap Chinese buffet on a hot day!


Stewart

[guyvapeur]

Some time ago, I had to modify a tent for a buddy. I was concerned that the new canvas I used would shrink once sewn in and distort the lines of the tent.

I bought the 10 new yards of canvas and put it out on the outside clothes line. I left it there for a few rainy/sunny days. On removing the canvas , the shrinkage was noticeable but years later, the new pieces were still in line with the older canvas.... Pre-shrunk I guess you could say.

If memory serves me well, you may get different shrink ratios on canvas.
Depending on the weave, you may have more shrinking on the length than on the width....

Good Luck with your projects.

[guyvapeur]

I have played with a variety of canvases and inks to see what works the best.

I have not yet found the perfect ink/paint combo but.........I have had good success with black boot stain. You can purchase a plastic container with the sponge top that allows you to touch up the black on leather boots or belts.

Some stores also sell leather dye...... I like this because it is thicker than ink pads and does not bleed as much on the canvas.

[Bob Carriere]

Yes it has to be done outside...... we waterproofed old Scout tents with a mixture of parafyn wax disolved in naphta........ a similar mixture was sold at Canadian tire in the 50s......

A dangerous explosive mixture to make as you need heat to warm up/melt the parafin and you stir in the naphta......... we used a single burner electric counter top stove with a double boiler arrangement and a long extension cord to be away from the garage and house....... no smoking allowed. The tents were set up and we painted them inside and out with large 5 inch paint brushes..... doing the inside was fun as you would get dizzy and headachy all at once.... no beer needed.

With the right mixture the canvas would dry fast...and be very water tight.. and remarkably not sticky....... smelled for at least the first two camping trips......

Ah the good old days when nothing was toxic....wonder we are still alive!!!!

BooBee

PS...... I have about 100 pounds of parafyn blocks in the barn....just need the naptha.....and a few volunteers.......hihihi

[Grant Bowker]

I can find naptha or a suitable substitute, perhaps Rob wants to be the volunteer....

Grant

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

I can find naptha or a suitable substitute, perhaps Rob wants to be the volunteer....Grant

Grant, Ole Trout,

After 22 years of serving Her Majesty in Canada's Army, I learned early on never to volunteer. I am more than willing to film you and Bob so as to provide evidence to the subsequent and inevitable inquest (but only after we sort out your Wills).

[Stewart Loy]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

Regards the Waterproofing, is it required on the Tan canvas or not?

Tony,

The tan material comes with the super waterproofing, and does NOT need anymore. That colour tarp is by far the bestest deal out there! 1 has been ordered thus far.


Stewart

[john hoffman]

Greeting. I am interested in a tan C15 cover, Stewart. Just PMed you Sir.

Cheers, Johnnie.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

.... I always referred to them as mini capsan winches.......

All the early boxes had them...... and if you search the archive pictures from CLive you will see that the early box canvas had some kind of leather strap with keyholes in them.... they fitted over them funny little "whatever"..... all early boxes also had the curves hooks welded to the box and they seemed to be used to secure a short tarp over the box when the "bows" were not used.... again this is based on factory pictures from Clive.....

It would make sense that with field experience the typical metal spring hood type clasps where used on the tarps to secure the tarp under some tension yet could be very quickly released for battle situations.

Grant has reproduced some very accurate copies of the spring devices.... even importing the suitable springs from the USA in yard long strips from an outfit that would not ship to Canadians even when using a UPS box in Ogdensburg...... he used the good services and good will of Phil in NH to remail to the barn...... the Caldwells are also reproducing them as well.

Boob,

It this what you mean?

H.

[Bob Carriere]

HI Hanno

I see we are working from the same archived photos......

I actually was referring to the Ford cab 12 in the same series of pictures ...see below......

Noticed that the corner strap fits through a slip cut on the tarp to lock it in place..... the later models with the gromlets for the rope dispenced withthat additional work....... one question in my mind... is that trap canvas or leather with a keyhole cut in it....... old cartridge boxes for 1812 uniform used a similar brass "finding" that allowed the keyhole in the cover to hold tight and keep the paper cartridges from flying out.... or canvas that has some form of sewn reinforcement or even a metal gromlet..... Any one ever seen an early CMP tarp with the straps.....

I have also seen later cab 13 use the same metal spring devices that are used to hold the engine cover closed.... they used them between the ropes and those funny mini capstan. Stretch...pull down and lock on the pin....Which I beleive would be a lot faster to release a tarp in a battle situation than untying knots and loosening the ropes.... but I can find a decent pictures of them being actually used in service.

[Mike Kelly]

Looking at the windows in that cab 12 top... I always thought it was a cotton material.. but apparently, it's made from a fine copper or brass woven gauze . Can anyone confirm or know otherwise ?

Mike

[Bob Carriere]

...according to AEDB publication.

Grant do you remember the section were it was described...?

More intriging is why...? they did have plastic for the side windows..?

Bob

[john hoffman]

I'll take a stab. Advent of thermal plastics, i.e., bakelite, etc., was a mere science pre WW2. Hostilities pushed plastics production way ahead, accellerated it.

Was it not the prewar norm for box covers to have a simple canvas view "flap" if any at all ? Prewar Hillmans, Austins, early Morris truck pics show canvas covers with tied flaps, but I'll be damned if none are shown rolled up to exposed the clear plastic sheet, if it was there.

Cheerio, Johnnie.

[Bob Carriere]

.... it was 1947 or 48 before the first expensive plastic toys were available... and it was brittle and NO plastic glue existed..... my Dad mended broken plastic by using a kitchen knife heated on the stove.....or nail removing solutions (acetone)......memories..... my early toys were cast of rubber or white metal..... the wheels/tires wer made of a pressed cardboard or papier mache which did not last long playing in damp sand.....

Who remembers the name of the Crown Corporation created in Canada to jump start the plastic industry.....??? early 40s.......

Bob
PS....Man it's cold this morning....Minus 25 C..... it actually hurts just to stand there...... that's why I am here on the 'puter.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

.... it was 1947 or 48 before the first expensive plastic toys were available... and it was brittle and NO plastic glue existed..... my Dad mended broken plastic by using a kitchen knife heated on the stove.....or nail removing solutions (acetone)......memories..... my early toys were cast of rubber or white metal..... the wheels/tires wer made of a pressed cardboard or papier mache which did not last long playing in damp sand.....

Who remembers the name of the Crown Corporation created in Canada to jump start the plastic industry.....??? early 40s.......

Bob
PS....Man it's cold this morning....Minus 25 C..... it actually hurts just to stand there...... that's why I am here on the 'puter.

Who remembers the name of the Crown Corporation created in Canada to jump start the plastic industry.....??? early 40s.......

Reliable...
And the plastic dolls today in show room condition are worth more than the bisque dolls of the last century..
Look them up on e0pay..

[Stewart Loy]

Gents,

I have most of you down for your 15cwt tarps, and we will move to production soon.

If anybody is on the fence, and wondering about a canvas cover for your 15cwt truck, it is time to decide. PM me with your needs, and don't be the only one without a tarp.


Stewart

[john hoffman]

Good show !

[Stewart Loy]

Gents,

The canvas cover production is stalled with our fabric at some factory in the US getting treated. The canvasmith thinks that it will be 2 weeks before the paperwork can get the green stuff back into Canada so that the production can start.

I will let you know when they get sewn. If you want to think about how you will ship your tarp, now would be a good time to arrange transport for it. If you have not paid, now would also be a good time to raid the piggy bank. Remember that the tax man loves CMPs also, so add 13% to your Canadian funds. To all those who have paid - thanks, and I will process yours first.

Regards,


Stewart

[david moore]

Stewart
Could you give the approx overall dimensions of the tarp you are duscussing. From the photo I'm wondering if it would fit my F8 long box? Much smaller truck but doesn't look too different from the remains that I have.

[Stewart Loy]

Originally Posted by david moore

Stewart
Could you give the approx overall dimensions of the tarp you are duscussing. From the photo I'm wondering if it would fit my F8 long box? Much smaller truck but doesn't look too different from the remains that I have.

David,

In response to your, and other fellows questions regarding the 15cwt box dimensions, I went out to the garage this morning with my tape measure.

The box is 80 inches - front to back. It is 82 inches wide. Both measures are outside to outside.

The bows will have the tarp rise about 33 inches above the top of the box.

Is that about the same size as the 8cwt?

If you can use a tarp of this size, please let me know so I can get the canvasmaker up to speed - we expect material to get back into Canada soon. Then production can start.



Stewart

[david moore]

Stewart
I'll measure my box as soon as I get out to the cottage - maybe Tues or Wed.
David

[cletrac (RIP)]

David, according to Military Vehicle Profiles, your outside measurements are 84 1/2 long and 83 3/32 wide and judging from the pics it would be 30 inches from the top of the box to the top of the bows.

[david moore]

David/Stewart

A bit curious - I have measured my 1B1 box and it doesn't quite agree with the book! Mine is 84" long (within experimental error!) but only 77 3/4" wide (as opposed to 83 3/32" in the book). All outside to outside. The height of the hoops above the body is 27".

Either way, a bit too different from your standard order to be comfortable, Stewart. By the way, how was it settled re shrinkage allowance?

I may try to restore the original canvas (see pic) which is pretty badly shredded but has all of the original grommets, tabs and leather straps in very good condition. Also the mesh windows/flaps. I had in mind to build a chicken wire support over the hoops and try to patch the laid over canvas with some spare (real) canvas I got from Brian Asbury - anybody tried a project like that?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by david moore

I may try to restore the original canvas (see pic) which is pretty badly shredded but has all of the original grommets, tabs and leather straps in very good condition. Also the mesh windows/flaps. I had in mind to build a chicken wire support over the hoops and try to patch the laid over canvas with some spare (real) canvas I got from Brian Asbury - anybody tried a project like that?

David,

At least you have something to start with. I think your shredded orginal could be used as a pattern. Best thing to do would be to take it apart so all the canvas parts can be laid out flat and traced as patterns. Depending on your skills, I guess you need to find a sail maker with an appetite for these sort of projects.

Hanno

[Gunner]

David:

Perhaps Stew's canvas lady would give you a price on copying yours... it isn't so different from what she is already doing and, as you noted, you have all the hardware right there.

Mike