M4A2 Sherman III

kevinT · #1 21-09-03, 15:16

I am currently working on the Formations Models M4A2. ( lovely kit it is too ).
I am looking for Canadian / British units that used the Sherman III, in NWE preferably.
Any tank names, matching WD numbers would be a bonus.
Cheers
Kevin T

Dana Nield · #2 21-09-03, 16:23

One of the Sherbrooke Fusillers was a Sherman III. I have decal artwork done for this model which will be released in the near future.

Cheers!

Dana

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #3 21-09-03, 17:01

Kevin, the Sherman pictured above, "Bomb", was an M4A2 and one of the few Shermans of any marque to survive the war from D-Day through to the end of the war. It was brought back and is presently a plinth vehicle in Sherbrooke Quebec. You can't do better than that!

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #4 22-09-03, 15:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Dana Nield
I have decal artwork done for this model which will be released in the near future.

Dana,
I've completed a Tamiya version of Bomb.She's all painted up with the Sherbrooke markings.The only decals missing are the word Bomb & serial number,plus the C111 on the front.Are you including these exact decal when you mfg them
Garry

Dana Nield · #5 22-09-03, 18:16

Hi Gary,

Here is a test shot of the sheet. It is a png file so it may not work on some browsers.

The left and right side census numbers and Bomb script were designed after careful examination of photos of the vehicles left and right side. The decal was designed for a friend who is building a model of bomb and I included some things that were not in the photos (Taken at the end of the war) but may have been on the vehicle at some time. This includes the rear Division and Arm of Service marks and the turret Sqn identifiers. The maple leaves show up as white as this is an export of a corel file and I had set them to print on a seperate layer. One was gold leaf, which is the colour of the leaf on the 1:1 scale decals that were applied to the vehicle, the other was yellow, which was the colour they were when the markings were hand painted. Also the plumes are not shown on the "bomb" as they apparently were added and grew in number as the war dragged on.

I'm not too sure when they will be released, but I will have further info next month on the subject. I also have markings ready for the Lake Superior Regiment's Ram Badger, based on the well known photo of that regiment's vehicle turning the corner through a Dutch town.

As always, if anyone needs decals produced, be they in 1:1 scale, or anything smaller, please contact me. If I don't already produce it, I'll see about doing it as a custom order.

Cheers!

Dana

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #6 22-09-03, 20:41

That's what I'm looking for!Are they going to be 1/35 th scale?.As far as the bomb on the side is concerned,I can add the flames
I already have the correct unit markings,down to the blue square on the sides of the turret.I'm doing the tank as will probably be marked down in Sherbrooke,as a monmument
Garry

Dana Nield · #7 23-09-03, 04:16

Yes, they will be available in 1/35 scale and later in 1/72 and 1/76.

Cheers!

Dana

John McGillivray · #8 23-09-03, 15:18

This is the first that I have heard of the Formations Models M4A2. Can you give some details about it. Dose it have the direct vision ports? Is it a complete kit or is it a conversion?

Thank you,
John.

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #9 23-09-03, 21:15

John,
I was on the site yesterday.It's only internals,not a complete kit.Type in Formations Models,go to seach,& you'll be on their site
Garry

John McGillivray · #10 24-09-03, 23:46

Gerry,
I found their web site but there is nothing about the M4A2 kit.
Anyway, a resin conversion kit is outside of my price range. Lets hope that someone comes out with a PS kit sometime in the near future.

John

http://www.formationsmodels.com/index.html

Dana Nield · #11 25-09-03, 00:43

Academy announced recently that in addition to the M3 Lee, M3 Grant and M3 Cast hull Lee kits, that they will also release an M4A2. Noting that nothing Academy announces is carved in stone, I think that these will actually see the light of day sooner than later as many of the components that would be used are already existing, especially for the M4A2, in the M10 and M12 series.

Cheers!

Dana

Dana Nield · #12 02-04-04, 01:30

Here they are:

Link

Garry Shipton (RIP) · #13 03-04-04, 16:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Dana Nield
Yes, they will be available in 1/35 scale and later in 1/72 and 1/76.

ALL RIGHT Dana!!

Where do I send my cheque & what price Canadian?I assume NO Quebec salestax(Hopefully)??for 1/35th scale for the "Bomb"decal
Poor model.still sitting here undressed!!
Garry

Dana Nield · #14 03-04-04, 16:13

Just visit the site and use the shopping cart!

Cheers!

Dana

#15 04-04-04, 07:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
It was brought back and is presently a plinth vehicle in Sherbrooke Quebec. You can't do better than that!

Well, I hope they tidied up the grousers. . . . . . . . . . .

R.

#16 13-05-04, 01:50

The First Hussars brought back a M4A2 to London, Ontario that landed on D-Day and made it to VE-Day. CT 152655, HOLY ROLLER. Logged 2,500 miles from France to Godensholt, Germany.
At Apeldoorn, Holland she went up against a 75 mm A/T gun and finished a close second, needed a new drive sprocket and some track before carrying on.

#17 13-05-04, 02:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Perry Kitson
The First Hussars brought back a M4A2 to London, Ontario that landed on D-Day and made it to VE-Day. CT 152655, HOLY ROLLER. Logged 2,500 miles from France to Godensholt, Germany.
At Apeldoorn, Holland she went up against a 75 mm A/T gun and finished a close second, needed a new drive sprocket and some track before carrying on.

Fascinating!
An almost charmed existence, especially if this refers to a PAK40/L46 which I understand is quite capable of making 2 holes in a Sherman from a fair distance too.

R.

Crewman · #18 09-04-05, 12:39

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinT
I am currently working on the Formations Models M4A2. ( lovely kit it is too ).
I am looking for Canadian / British units that used the Sherman III, in NWE preferably.
Any tank names, matching WD numbers would be a bonus.
Cheers
Kevin T

Hi,

Restricted number of the M4A2s was also in the Polish 1st Armoured Division, Canadian 2nd Corps, ETO 1944-45. They served in the divisional HQ Squadron.

Also the Sherman III Dozers, ARVs and Fascine Carriers were used by this division in NWE.

Best regards

C.

kevinT · #19 10-04-05, 01:01

Thank you for your post Crewman.
Are you aware of any named vehicles or WD serial numbers of tanks used by these units?
Thanks for any info supplied.

Cheers
KevinT

Crewman · #20 10-04-05, 14:30

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinT
Thank you for your post Crewman.
Are you aware of any named vehicles or WD serial numbers of tanks used by these units?
Thanks for any info supplied.

Cheers
KevinT

Hi Kevin,

There is a kind of eight-volume encyclopedia of all Polish tanks and the other AFVs that fought in the MTO and ETO and that had their own names painted on the armour. I do not have all volumes unfortunately. There are also the other various monographs of the Polish Shermans or the units that used them. Give me a week or two and I will check much deeper Polish ETO Sherman IIIs because you seem to be interested mainly in this front. But do not expect too much -- M4A2s were used by the Poles in large quantities in the MTO but not ETO, what is more in Italy we had II Corps in NWE only one armoured division.

What I may write now, I know six color plates where the Polish Sherman IIIs from NWE are showed. The only one classic combat variant of them belongs to the HQ Squadron of the Polish 1st Armoured Division. The tank comes from August 1944 period. It has one-tone SCC No. 15 Olive Drab camouflage scheme. No WD serial which is painted out. It has only typical white stars on the hull sides. The other markings situated in typical tank places are as follows:

Bridge Classification Number -- 40

Unit AoS -- 40

Formation Sign -- 1st Armoured Div. badge, see below

National markings -- PL in oval

The other Polish Sherman IIIs from NWE I know are support vehicles or non-combat:

▪ Sherman III ARV, 24th Ulans Regiment, 1st Armoured Div., T148322

▪ Sherman III ARV, 24th Ulans Regiment, 1st Armoured Div., T267

▪ Sherman III ARV, 3rd Squadron, 2nd Armoured Regiment, 1st Armoured Div. No WD serial.

▪ Sherman III Fascine Carrier, unidentified unit of the Polish 1st Armoured Div. No WD serial, no other markings on the side surfaces.

▪ Sherman III Dozer, unidentified unit of the Polish 1st Armoured Div. No WD serial, no other markings on the side surfaces.

Best regards

C.

kevinT · #21 10-04-05, 15:42

Thank you for your reply.
The colour plates are very useful.
I have some 200+ names for Shermans, Stuarts, Scout cars etc but only around 60 odd WD serial numbers. The vast majority of these are from regiments from the 2nd Armoured Division. I have hardly any from 1st Armoured Division.
Any information you have will be a great bonus.
Thanks again for your time.

Cheers
KevinT

Crewman · #22 10-04-05, 22:18

Hello Kevin,

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinT
Thank you for your reply.
The colour plates are very useful.
I have some 200+ names for Shermans, Stuarts, Scout cars etc but only around 60 odd WD serial numbers. [...] I have hardly any from 1st Armoured Division.
Any information you have will be a great bonus.
Thanks again for your time.

I will post interesting data for you soon but I need time to collect them from approx. eight books. Wait please patiently and you will have various WD serials and names of the AFVs used by the Polish 1st Armoured Division in UK and ETO.

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinT
The vast majority of these are from regiments from the 2nd Armoured Division.

Oh yes...

This is real catastrophe...

I am afraid that in this 2nd Division (ex-2nd Brigade) not only every one tank, AFV and lorry but also every one motorcycle, bicycle and cart has its own name of the Polish girl, city, town, village, region and whatever else...

Best regards

C.

kevinT · #23 10-04-05, 23:34

Thank you for that. I look forward to receiving that information.
Could you also explain why some Polish tanks have 7 digit WD T serial numbers.

Cheers
KevinT

tankbarrell · #24 11-04-05, 08:49

Quote:

Originally posted by FV623
Well, I hope they tidied up the grousers. . . . . . . . . . .

R.

Those are extended end connectors, used to increase flotation. Grousers are the bar on the track pad used to increase traction.

Crewman · #25 11-04-05, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinT
Thank you for that. I look forward to receiving that information.

Dear Kevin,

I think that when I will be ready to post the data you are looking for then I will create new thread about Polish WD serial numbers or maybe generally about Commonwealth and Allied serial numbers on the tanks because when I post a hundred Polish WD serials of various AFVs of the Polish 1st Armoured Div. in the thread dedicated only to Sherman III then MLU moderators will organize for me the Court-Martial and execute me. And, frankly speaking, no wonder...

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinT
Could you also explain why some Polish tanks have 7 digit WD T serial numbers.

Yes, good question, but I am unable to explain it. In Poland it is described as normal practice and nobody sees something strange in this fact.

Best regards

C.

kevinT · #26 11-04-05, 20:43

Thank you that is probably a good idea to open a new thread, on what is a new subject.
I am still unsure as to why only Polish vehicles, at least all those I have come across, have some 7 digit WD T serials.
Two examples that come to mind T1290295 a Valentine, a photo of this used to be on the AFV Interiors website and T2612884 a Universal Carrier, photo from British Pathe News.

Cheers
KevinT

#27 11-04-05, 22:25

Quote:

Originally posted by tankbarrell
Those are extended end connectors, used to increase flotation. Grousers are the bar on the track pad used to increase traction.

Ah,

many thanks Mr. M4A4 Barrell.

I think you got my drift anyway.

R.

tankbarrell · #28 12-04-05, 08:57

Yes Richard, I knew what you meant, just being a little pedantic...

Crewman · #29 12-04-05, 10:41

Hmm,... as I can hear there is a controversion if the Polish 1st Armoured Div. used the M4A2s or not. It is classic question of competence/incompetence of the authors of various books. Maybe my colleagues from Poland will write a little more about it.

Best

C.

Ian Hanratty · #30 14-04-05, 22:47

Hi All

Just a quick note the Photo at then top of the thread is of a M4A2 Direct Vision hull type . possibly one of the Reworked tanks supplied from US Army Training units.

Unfortunately the formations M4A2 kit is of a mid production welded hull with applique Armour. To build the tank in the photo you would need to use the Legends M4A2 Sherman conversion kit.

Interestingly In British Tanks in Normandy by L Fortin. on Page 18, is a photo of Brigadiers Harveys Command tank which is a Re worked M4A2, and on 24 is another Direct vision hull tank.

I hope this might be of interest.

Cheers

Ian