Canadian CVRT Scorpion purchase

[Perry Kitson]

I have recently read an article on Canada's aborted purchase of the British CVRT Scorpion that was to replace our Centurions in the early '70's. Has anyone ever seen or heard of the testing that was done in Canada?
I have a Canadian Forces Equipment Recognition Handbook that was published for the '71-'72 Command and Staff College course that has the Scorpion detailed along with the other armoured vehicles that Canada was using at the time. It is actually listed as a fire support vehicle.
Here is the link to the above mentioned article.
http://canadianmilitaryhistory.ca/la...by-frank-maas/

Perry

[Robin Craig]

Here is a picture of one of the trials vehicles in Wainright.

If you ever think of parting with the book I am interested Perry

[rob love]

I haven't seen anything about the testing, but of course 6 years later we got the Couger AVGP which had the Scorpion turret.

[James P]

Ahh.... yes the good old AVGP, if there was EVER a vehicle with an identity issue it had to be that ride. A Swiss designed hull made in Canada, British gun and turret, French Michelin tires and American radios. A true Frankenstein vehicle.

[Robin Craig]

I am awaiting pictures, one day, but they also brought the CVR(W) Fox out at the same time apparently for consideration, but no one mentions that.

[Perry Kitson]

A couple of photo's from the cockpit of an AVGP Grizzly while on excercise at Borden, early '80's. The turret on the Cougar was a slightly enlarged Scorpion copy. Got to love the crapper built into the commanders seat!
The Fox is mentioned in the above article as being shipped to Canada with the two Scorpion's.

[Ed Storey]

Here is a 1974 photograph of the FV 721 Fox CVR(W) that was evaluated in Canada.

[Robin Craig]

I often wonder what you don't have pictures of Ed, I think you must need a bigger house . . . .

[maple_leaf_eh]

Tried to attach (and muffed it) a *.pdf (courtesy of Robin Craig).

Canadian Army Journal Vol 2 No 4, winter 1999

"PROPORTION OF THEIR CAVALRY
MIGHT BE CONVERTED
LIGHT ARMOURED FORCE DEVELOPMENT IN CANADA’S ARMY, 1952 - 1976
Sean M. Maloney, PhD"

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Canadian Army Journal Vol 2 No 4, winter 1999

"PROPORTION OF THEIR CAVALRY
MIGHT BE CONVERTED
LIGHT ARMOURED FORCE DEVELOPMENT IN CANADA’S ARMY, 1952 - 1976
Sean M. Maloney, PhD"

Might this help?

[strat1]

Test vehicles , DND photos.....

[Robin Craig]

The picture of the CVR(W) Fox (top picture) is interesting as the CFR plate is a regular sequence and not a copy of the Brit MOD plate as with the Scorpion in the earlier picture.

The significance to me indicates it was a production Fox and not a prototype which is what that Scorpion was. Of note, if you enlarge the image is the cage and ball on the end of the exhaust for swiming purposes as the vehicle has its full swim screen fitted.

[Dan Martel]

In the 1970 issue of The Strathconian is an article on the Scorpion and Fox trials. I've transcribed it below.

"Scorpion and Fox Trials

Scorpion! Great Britain's bid to fulfill the Free World's requirement for a scout backup: a Direct Fire Support Vehicle (DFSV). During the period August 1970 - April 1971 Strathcona's played an active role in the Canadian Land Forces search for a DSFV. Firstly, we pioneered the "Sarcee-Glenmore": a mocked-up M113A1 training expedient, to allow us to maintain the state of our tracked reconnaissance expertise during this "lack of DSFV" phase.

Secondly, we committed ourselves heavily to the Canadian Forces Headquarter's interest in the British Scorpion programme. Captain R.H. (Bob) Caldwell left for England and the RAC Centre at Bovington in late August heading his own Canadian Trials Detachment - at last he had attained Nirvana - independent command (albeit of four men) out of the country!

During the autumn period, which found Caldwell commanding a troop of Scorpions in Southern England, the Regiment was preparing to assist the British Army with their cold weather trials, nicknamed Exercise Prairie Snow, to be conducted at good ol' (you guessed it) Wainwrong early January until end March.

Captain Caldwell and his merry men brought the Prairie Snow vehicles; two Scorpions and two Foxes, back from England at Christmas, thus allowing the Regiment to take a further look at the new hardware: through the human media of WO Blanch, Sgt Welsh, Cpl McDonnell, Cpl Burtch, Cpl Parker, Cpl Gray, Cpl Munn and Cpl Dawley. As we go to press, Capt Caldwell's trials detachment has returned from Britain pending further British trials activities. Prairie Snow appears to have been a profound success, and no doubt exists in anyone's mind that the Strathcona's have done their share of supporting the Forces quest for a Direct Fire Support Vehicle."

The British War Office numbers for the two Fox from the photos accompanying the article are 00SP79 and 00SP50. Neither are seen with CAR licence plates. Only photos of one of the two Scorpions are shown: 01SP03 with a CAR plate, like the photograph in the second post.

The issue includes a line diagram of the Regiment's new 1970 light armour organization.

Cheers,
Dan.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I've snatched a number of V100 and V150 shots from the interwebs, FB and Steel Soldiers. No commentary on the trials, but I've named each image with the year purported to be its trial year. Give Cadillac Gage credit for persistance from 1966 to 1976.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Give Cadillac Gage credit for persistance from 1966 to 1976.

Since the new TAPV is a descendant of the commando, then I would say their persistence paid off. It only took 50 years, give or take.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Someone should run CFRs 20405 and 20329 thru the EDR to see what comes up.

[Robin Craig]

And how about 20403 as well seeing as how Im being corrected on the MOD numbers as being prototypes, funny that

[rob love]

Anyone want to bet that 20404 will be one as well?

[strat1]

Dug deep into my photo files, found this photo dated around 1971, DND photo