M4A2 Sherman

[Mike Gray]

A question. Having serial number and registration number, can anyone direct me on how to find production data and service history details on an M4A2 Sherman?
Purchased from Crown Assets.

[tankbarrell]

I can give you month of build and assigned USA registration number from the ordnance serial number.

[Mike Gray]

Thanks. Can I pm you with serial and reg. numbers?

[tankbarrell]

Yes, go ahead.

[Frank v R]

Hi Mike , is this a M4A2E8 or M4A2 ?

[Mike Gray]

Hi Frank,
It is the upgunned Sherman to 76mm. I am suspecting it may be an Easy 8, but have not had the chance to get inside yet. The original invoice from Crown Assets only states A2.

[Michael R.]

You would know if it was an E8 on a clear day from a mile away looking at the exterior, from any angle, yes?

[tankbarrell]

It is HVSS, built in April 1945. PM sent Mike with more info.

[Mike Gray]

This what we are looking at. Weather conditions have prevented a closer inspection at this time.
But, it is going.
Somewhere.

[Michael R.]

No puzzle there. It is the Legion Sherman at Haliburton. Mike, are you saying they have a receipt from Crown Assets? There must be a story there. Are they, (Legion) disposing of their memorial?

[Mike Gray]

Michael.
Yes that is the one. They have the original Crown Assets invoice, from 1973.
But there is no one around now to know anything about this AFV any more.
Hence the research.
And yes, they are in a position to divest themselves of this.

[Michael R.]

'Haliburton' is a 'large hatch' M4A2E8 76(w) HVSS made at the Fisher Tank Arsenal, Production Order T-13901. Serial number 69162, R/N USA 30129641. The 76mm M1A2 main gun was made at Oldsmobile.

This tank was produced under the Fourth Russian Protocol of the Lend Lease agreement. It did not ship from the USA to Russia before the cancellation of the Lend Lease program. It was purchased by Canada in 1946 and used a training tank.

All this information is posted on-line, the better source is the fine work done by Mr. Baun, et al (including Hanno Spoelstra and Joe DeMarco.).


See: http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_m...gehatches.html

See also: http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_m...erman_SNs.html

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Mike Gray

A question. Having serial number and registration number, can anyone direct me on how to find production data and service history details on an M4A2 Sherman?
Purchased from Crown Assets.

"Purchased from Crown Assets." Fascinating story. I would enjoy knowing more about that.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Mike Gray

Michael.
Yes that is the one. They have the original Crown Assets invoice, from 1973.
But there is no one around now to know anything about this AFV any more.
Hence the research.
And yes, they are in a position to divest themselves of this.

"And yes, they are in a position to divest themselves of this."
Not so fast. There is some due diligence required with those who administer RCL Canada, CF-DDSAL and CGD.

[jdmcm]

Will the tank be coming up on the market for sale?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Michael R.

'Haliburton' is a 'large hatch' M4A2E8 76(w) HVSS made at the Fisher Tank Arsenal, Production Order T-13901. Serial number 69162, R/N USA 30129641. The 76mm M1A2 main gun was made at Oldsmobile.

This tank was produced under the Fourth Russian Protocol of the Lend Lease agreement. It did not ship from the USA to Russia before the cancellation of the Lend Lease program. It was purchased by Canada in 1946 and used a training tank.

All this information is posted on-line, the better source is the fine work done by Mr. Baun, et al (including Hanno Spoelstra and Joe DeMarco.)

Thanks for sharing, but to be totally correct - it is a M4A2(76)W HVSS. E8 was the experimental designation of the HVSS suspension. When taken in production "HVSS" was added to the designation, rather than E8.

From my website: http://www.mapleleafup.nl/g104/cdn.htm:

In 1946 the Royal Canadian Corps was equipped with 300 M4A2(76)W HVSS Shermans, bought from the US for $1,460.00 each. They were used for training only. After being replaced by Centurions, the Shermans were passed down to various Militia regiments. The Lord Strathcona's Horse Regiment which served in Korea used M4A3(76)W HVSS Shermans supplied by the USA.

[tankbarrell]

Though it seems in Canadian service they were known officially as M4A2E8.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ghlight=m4a2e8

[ShawnC]

Id love to work on or own this Sherman. How much are they asking for it?

[jdmcm]

Adrian is correct, much of the original Canadian literature designated the tank M4A2E8, see the previous post about the drivers handbook.

[Michael R.]

You could also call it a Sherman III AY. All depends on where you are.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

Though it seems in Canadian service they were known officially as M4A2E8.
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ghlight=m4a2e8

Yes I know, I have a Canadian manual with "M4A2E8" on it as well.
But it's US Ordnance designation was M4A2(76)W HVSS and not M4A2E8 76(w) HVSS or another variation on a theme.
And indeed the British Army called them Sherman IIIAY, but they never used them operationally.

[Mike Gray]

Thank you very much Michael R. and Hanno for filling out details on this. Much appreciated.

[maple_leaf_eh]

A Dutch 105mm Sherman sold last week for over a quarter million Euros. Not the same condition or provenance, but a starting point for any discussions.

I'd be whispering a few words into the President's ear about accepting too low.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

A Dutch 105mm Sherman sold last week for over a quarter million Euros. Not the same condition or provenance, but a starting point for any discussions.

I'd be whispering a few words into the President's ear about accepting too low.

Would the sale you comment on be the DeGroot auction?
Perhaps closer to 469,223.48 EUR complete with spares, superb example, including the auction house hammer and Dutch VAT ? In Loonies that would be north of $710,000.00 at 1.513.

Comparing a gutted gate guard that has sat idle for forty-three years with the quality of the former DeGroot collection? A starting point, perhaps.

[maple_leaf_eh]

The purpose of posting the recent sale information (wrong as I was), serves to illustrate that there is a thriving market for Shermans. And, the Legion President must know he (or she) isn't doing some 'scrap dealer' a favour letting that gutted, rusty old tank go for $2 a pound.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

The purpose of posting the recent sale information (wrong as I was), serves to illustrate that there is a thriving market for Shermans. And, the Legion President must know he (or she) isn't doing some 'scrap dealer' a favour letting that gutted, rusty old tank go for $2 a pound.

Absolutely. I agree with you Terry.
However, at $2.00 a pound it would be pretty close to $150,000.00. As the Haliburton example may not have a power pack you could deduct $4,800.00.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

It is commonly agreed the Army Cars auction's prices were going through the roof, not good representative of current market prices. Their Sherman was a good fully restored runner, that fact would have to be taken into account. One big minor point is that it has the wrong engines for its type.

Speaking of auction prices, Grizzly no.1 of 188 attracted a max bid of £112k total at a recent auction. Reserve was £150k so it failed to sell:
http://www.classic-auctions.com/Auct...ser-40128.aspx

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Gray

Thank you very much Michael R. and Hanno for filling out details on this. Much appreciated.

My pleasure Mike, please keep us posted on your progress of recovering and restoring her.

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

One big minor point is that it has the wrong engines for its type.

Teach me? If it was an A2, why would the conjoined twin 6-71's not be correct.

Also see: http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...33&postcount=6

[Maurice Donckers]

Because it is a M4A3 Hull , so it was delivered with a Ford GAA V8 , the twin set is longer , and therefore the dividing plate between fighting room , and engine bay is cut to get that set in.