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  #31  
Old 15-03-04, 17:33
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Default I can't keep up with you!

Nuyt, my friend, I am at home with a PC in front of me and books and magazine articles to write...I can't keep up with you!

I have just done some research on Ford Britain's wartime activities. They published a small book rather like Vauxhalls' but rather than a grandiose large-format item because of post-war print restrictions it came out in very small format. I am informed that Ford, Dagenham & London intended to use a whole host of photos in the book but could not...and those photos should be there still in South Ockendon, Essex. I am hoping against hope that those photos are still there and can be accessed.
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  #32  
Old 16-03-04, 15:04
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Default cant keep up!

Ok, take it easy, David.

This is already a lot of info that we've gathered. I am sure we will one day discover the "truth" about overvalwagens.

Hanno,
this MH tractor is quite funny, strange no one ever wrote or published more about them...Btw, did you ever go to Bronbeek: they have a KNIL Vickers Ut tractor towing a FLAK30.

About Ford/MH trucks: you say KNIL ordered hundreds of them:
Could you indicate what sort of trucks they ordered and how many arrived, like for instance the light trucks with machineguns that ended up in Austr.?

Kind regards,
Nuyt
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  #33  
Old 23-03-04, 15:46
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Default fORD'S WARTIME DAMAGE CLAIM

The copy of the Ford Motor Company War Damage claim came through this morning. There is no reference to any claim except for damage to Ford Koln/Cologne and another company subsidiary in Wien/Vienna. Nothing about Ford plants anywhere else!

A bit of very interesting history:

FORD-WERKE A.G was a corporation organised under the laws of Deustchland. FORD INVESTMENT COMPANY LIMITED of Guernsey, British Channel Islands which was a wholly owned subsiary of FORD MOTOR COMPANY LIMITED of Dagenham [actually London] owned RM 2 million par value shares in FORD-WERKE whose capital was RM 32 million. In addition FORD MOTOR COMPANY LIMITED owned RM 20,000 in FORD-WERKE. FORD MOTOR COMPANY of Dearborn owned 59.136% of FORD MOTOR COMPANY LIMITED.

Now this bit may interest Hanno..

Ford-Werke had in storage at the PAPLER KAROSSERIEWERK GmbH in Koln-Niehl 83 completed driver's' cabs which were destroyed in March 1945 as a result of enemy action, value RM 234,371, and they were new In addition 46 new trucks were lost in Bad Deutsch-Altenburg...the plant of FORD-WERKE A.G. WIEN, GmbH. Ford took over the building in Autumn/Fall 1944 where truck engines, axles, transmissions, and other machinery were manufactured.
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  #34  
Old 23-03-04, 16:09
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Default Re: fORD'S WARTIME DAMAGE CLAIM

Quote:
Originally posted by David_Hayward
A bit of very interesting history:

FORD-WERKE A.G was a corporation organised under the laws of Deustchland. FORD INVESTMENT COMPANY LIMITED of Guernsey, British Channel Islands which was a wholly owned subsiary of FORD MOTOR COMPANY LIMITED of Dagenham [actually London] owned RM 2 million par value shares in FORD-WERKE whose capital was RM 32 million. In addition FORD MOTOR COMPANY LIMITED owned RM 20,000 in FORD-WERKE. FORD MOTOR COMPANY of Dearborn owned 59.136% of FORD MOTOR COMPANY LIMITED.
Reminds me of the efforts Ford USA put into trying to play down its ties with Ford Werke because of a claim for their responsibility for the use of forced labor during WW2 a few years back - see Research Findings About Ford-Werke Under the Nazi Regime.

Quote:
Ford-Werke had in storage at the PAPLER KAROSSERIEWERK GmbH in Koln-Niehl 83 completed driver's' cabs ...
As for Papler, they also used forced labour making large numbers of wooden cargo beds and that typical wooden Einheits-Fahrerhaus for Ford G987T and V3000S trucks (see pics here), as well as radio bodies for Ford V8-51 chassis.

H.
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  #35  
Old 23-03-04, 16:14
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Default Ford Singapore and Chevrolet 1940 chassis

HI David,

So no luck with Ford for the moment.

I was thinking though more about a possible role for Ford Singapore. After all, the NEI more or less became economically integrated with the British colonies, possessions and dominions (including adapting to Stirling standard instead of Dutch guilder) after 1940. Trade and economic cooperation was stimulated.

Also it would have made sense for Ford to have one plant in the Far East that would serve the British colonies and neighbouring territories and states (Thailand/Siam? NEI?), just like Chevrolet had one plant in Priok that served the "Malay States".

I think it is likely that the Ford plant in Sing supplied the Dutch Indies and possibly the KNIL and maybe there was a small facility in Java (Soerabaja?) that would do the selling and first line service and maintenance.

Do you know if Ford Sing was selling, producing, assembling UK Ford models or US? or in other words was it part of Ford UK or US?

The key I think would be in Singapore (btw the factory was taken over by the japanese but not as a production facility I think?)

Chevrolet COE chassis:
I think, after checking the Chevrolet lists you kindly provided, that if it is true that the first series of 1940's Braats were on Chevrolet chassis they probably were on 1939 Chevrolet VF COE or on 1940 WE COE.

Do you know if these came in rhd? Were they exported to the NEI or Holland? Do you have any pics?

Kind regards,
Nuyt
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  #36  
Old 23-03-04, 16:44
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Default Reply 2 U

The COE 1939 and 1940 models were indeed available with rhd and CKD..the Southampton Plant asembled COE 1939 Model rhd trucks and then some WE models came into the country either as prize seizures or diverted stocks, and were lhd. ...without cabs in the latter case so were chassis only. In fact I think Bart V said that there were a load of COE Chevs delivered to La Rochelle which were intended for Antwerp.

As regards Ford Singapore, this was a Canadian Ford subsidiary I think although it is just possible it was a Ford UK one. They probably handled both UK and Canadian Fords...CMPs were sent there or were intended to be. I found a printed photo earlier of a Chevrolet tourer in French Indo-China circa 1931. The country's GM market was in fact covered by GM Java, as was Malaya and Singapore. The fact that the NEI drove on the left [why was that????] suggests that any Fords came in via Singapore. I wish we had period NEI magazines with adverts. Some Fords probably also came from the Amsterdam Plant, with DAF-Trado gear.

This lack of info about Ford in the NEI is really getting to me as I have not found an answer. I wonder if there are any business directories or similar for the 1930-41 period?
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  #37  
Old 23-03-04, 17:03
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The NEI driving on the left has probably historical reasons. Most of Africa does as well as Asia (Japan included). Also Dutch colonies in the West Indies did and Surinam still does. Probably at the time they had to decide on a fixed rule one looked at neighbouring countries.

Interestingly the Dutch railroads use the right hand track whereas the Belgian, French Portuguese etc use the lefthand: they were built by British engineers who just did what they thought was right. The Dutch railroads were copies of the German Bahne and were first connected to them for geographical reasons. These rode on the right. A Dutch train going into Belgium has to change tracks at the frontier.

Is it true the Ford production facilities in Singapore were only built in 1941?

I am sorry, but so far I have not come accross any pre-war NEI business listings or similar.

I will check some magazines for advertising though!


Nuyt

Last edited by nuyt; 23-03-04 at 17:12.
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  #38  
Old 23-03-04, 17:58
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Default Right hand running

On the London Undergound the Central Line runs on the right for some distance. In France, NORD Region uses left-hand running, and everywhere else right-hand including the Metro.

My research has shown that Ford Amsterfdam was a BRITISH FORD subsidiary, whereas Ford in Antwerp was a Ford US subsidary though the Dutch company was 60% British and 40% Nederland. Ford Amsterdam was supplied from the UK and US.

I have found no reference to Ford Singapore or in NEI so far but my guessign is that the former was a British or Canadian subsidary.
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  #39  
Old 23-03-04, 18:41
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If Ford Singapore was a British subsidiary, what are the most likely truck types they would have producedor sold let's say from 1939-42? Bedford, Fordson etc?

Nuyt
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  #40  
Old 23-03-04, 18:55
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Default Ford Singapore

J.B. Wearne owned a company WEARNE'S, Bukit Timah Road, Bukit Timah, Singapore which was established possibly pre-WW1. They originally assembled Canadian-supplied Ford Ts* and were an associate in effect of Ford of Canada subsidiaries in Bombay, Calcutta and Colombo. So, the definitive answer seems to be that it was a private company that acted as a local assembler of Canadian and probably British Fords. They in turn supplied the region including the NEI. I would have thought that there was a representative of some sorts in Batavia who imported Singapore-assembled Fords.


*Ford of Canada had an exclusive deal with Henry to supply Fords to the British Empire save for the British Isles from 1907.
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  #41  
Old 23-03-04, 19:06
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Default Trucks

Did Australia get any Fordson trucks? Although I can envisage British cars being exported, and Canadian trucks...Fordsons?? Interesting thought.

Yes they did according to Norm Darwin's book..1936 Models at least which would be the Model 7W?

Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 07-04-04 at 15:13.
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  #42  
Old 23-03-04, 19:10
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ok
checking my original copies of the NEI magazine Orient:

-one ad for Demmo 3-wheelers (from Soerabaja, local factory?) from 1074 NLG!

-1941 picture of two Ford firetrucks with Seagrave engine exstinguishers for 2000 liters a minute, delivered by? Lindetevis- Stokvis! (told you so). The Ford-Seagrave firetrucks had a 600 liters reserve of water and served with the Batavia FD.

-Humber steel bicycles imported form England by? Lindetevis-Stokvis! in 1941!

-nice ad by NV General Motors Java Handel Maatschappij, Tandjong-Priok (Chevrolet engines)

-Nash 1941 (with picture of a sedan car) by Imp. Handel Mij. Verkerk & Co Batavia,

That's all

Nuyt
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  #43  
Old 23-03-04, 19:20
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Default Chev ad

Any chance of a scan and post here please of the GM Java Ad?
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  #44  
Old 23-03-04, 19:28
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tried to scan and post several times over the weekend but did not succeed. The pictures, though small, were to big for the site. am trying to figure out how to scan them properly. any advice?
I have lots of stuff to share with you guys, so beware, once I know how to post....(pics of GM Priok inside and out!)
Nuyt
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  #45  
Old 23-03-04, 19:48
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Default Send me?

If you have broadband, send me the pix and then I will alter them to size and post them. I use my site to host the pix.

I have spam blocking so here's the address

gmhistorian@btinternet.com
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  #46  
Old 23-03-04, 22:18
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David,
I sent you three pics:
- maple leaf arty tractor as used by KNIL
- Batavian FD Ford/Seagraves
- GM Priok advertisement 1941

Thank you for posting them for me (and I am going to learn it myself, cant get my new computer under my control yet)

HTH
Nuyt
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  #47  
Old 24-03-04, 11:38
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Default Maple Leaf Artillery Tractor

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  #48  
Old 24-03-04, 11:40
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Default NEI Chevrolet advertisement

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  #49  
Old 24-03-04, 11:41
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Default Ford-Seagrave pumpers

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  #50  
Old 24-03-04, 11:44
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Default How's it done?

1. Scan picture
2. Post to hard drive and then
3. Open up photo programme and then
4. change paper size to suit and then
5. arrange picture to the paper size, cropping if required, and then
6. use FTP programme or similar to upload picture to a website, and then
7. in a window on this forum click on 'IMG' and in the box type the address of the picture where it is posted and hosted..e.g. htp://www.mypictures.com/ford.jpg and then add text in the box and post!
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  #51  
Old 24-03-04, 16:03
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Default thanks a lot

thanks

do you need any help translating the ad? I guess it speaks for itself...

nuyt
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  #52  
Old 24-03-04, 17:38
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Default !

Res Ipsa Loquitor!
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  #53  
Old 24-03-04, 20:34
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Sic Chevrolet transit mundi!
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  #54  
Old 25-03-04, 22:09
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Default overvalwagen on timor

this picture from AWM shows a ex-Stadswacht overvalwagen in bad shape in 1945. It was probably used in 1942 by the Australian army on Timor.
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  #55  
Old 05-04-04, 22:27
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Default another survivor

Quote:
Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra

As for survivors, see 3e Bataljon- 5e Regiment Infanterie > Carrierpeloton 1 for a picture of one of these tractors in use with the Dutch after WW2.
Here's another picture of one, taken at Soerabaja, Indonesia, on 28-8-'47. At the local vehicle dump?
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  #56  
Old 06-04-04, 19:23
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thanks Hanno,
In one of the 1942 docs I found friday I read some probably incomplete listings about equipment ordered and delivered:

Ordered were among other things:
-285 light tractors and 45 heavy (as known) of which 132 were delivered (probably including a small number for the West Indies at that stage).
-886 trucks (are these just the notorious 4x4 Chevrolets?) of which a mere 228 had been delivered (prob. including West Indies).
I am not sure it these figures are entirely trustworthy, but they are obviously an indication.

HTH
Nuyt
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  #57  
Old 07-04-04, 15:01
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Default Re: Vickers!

Quote:
Originally posted by ericnuyt
Btw, did you ever go to Bronbeek: they have a KNIL Vickers Ut tractor towing a FLAK30.
I must confess I have never visited Museum Bronbeek and had no idea they have a Vickers Utility Tractor(!)
Do you have any pictures? When was it acquired? Where did it come from?

H.
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  #58  
Old 09-04-04, 17:16
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Default Vickers

Hanno, I have no pictures. Origin of Vickers are unknown to me (the tractor might be ex-Belgian and the AA gun might be ex-German). The idea however is highly historically accurate.
The Vickers (of which only around 20 were delivered I think) are mostly seen towing Boehler 4,7cm AT guns on NEI pictures.
There was also an AA Battalion that used the same Vickers for towing Rheinmetall Flak 30 20mm AA gun, of which KNIL possessed some 30.
It has been heard that KNIL also had another type of VIckers tractor but I am not sure of this.

greetings
Nuyt
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  #59  
Old 23-04-04, 16:20
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Default Chevrolet COE

Hello,
I need your help identifying this Chevrolet cowl.
The pic was presumably taken in the last months of 1940 and shows the GM assembly plant at Priok, Java.

I think this truck (or chassis/cab) is a Chevrolet COE, possibly of the types used to build overvalwagens.
Can anybody confirm this and identify the model year (1940?) or type (WE?)?

(picture from bandjir)

Kind regards,
Nuyt
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  #60  
Old 23-04-04, 19:35
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Default 1939 COE

Judging by the grille it's a 1939 CIVILIAN Model COE Chevrolet, and therefore perhaps a Model VG..depends on wheelbase and single or twin rear wheels.

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...939to1945.html

gives you the models! Excellent find!
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