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Defrocked Priest in South Alberta Regt.
I was in a book store yesterday and looked through Donald Graves’ new book “Century of Service: The History of the South Alberta Light Horse”. In it was a photo of the South Alberta Regt. HQ vehicles in Bergen-op-Zoom, Netherlands on the 29th of Oct., 1944. This was a photo which I have never seen before. In it can be clearly seen a defrocked Priest along with the other Regt. HQ Vehicles.
I went back and check NAC PA-142088 (shown below) which is dated the 31st of October and the defrocked Priest can be seen in that photo also, covered by a tarp. This must be one of the vehicles retained by 4th Cdn Armoured Div. for use as cargo carriers to replenish the tanks with ammo and fuel. |
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John,
That piccie is on page 235 of Graves' SOUTH ALBERTAS. A great pic! Interestingly, it was just around the corner from that where I had the rear wheel of my bicycle respoked in the fall of 1975.... Ref the Priest, a number were kept in service with the armoured corps regiments as command & control vehicles (as opposed to OP tanks). There are other pics out there as well which document this.
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support |
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Thanks Geoff,
A few years ago the subject of the defrocked priests in 4CAD came up on the AFV New db. I forgot about them being used as command vehicles. Someone had stated that 4CAD also kept 10 defrocked Priests to use as cargo carriers. I believe that the photo below shows two of the cargo carrier versions. Note the cribbing added around the rear deck. John |
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support |
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Lac pa-131627
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A Priest Kangaroo used by the 4th Canadian Armoured Division moving north through the village of Delden Holland on the 4th of April 1945. In support of the 10th Canadian Infantry Brigade, the Lincoln and Welland Regiment which is seen in the lower right of the photo. This Kangaroo is either one used by the Headquarters section, or one of 10 "defrocked Priests" used as cargo carriers - note the cribbing added around the rear deck. Credit: Alexander M. Stirton / Canada. Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-131627 a131627.jpg
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle |
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In stead I tried to replicate what I remember. It seems the picture Hanno scanned for the Sherman Register website is somewhat clearer than the one available through the public archives online. I played around with the picture in photoshop in attempt to make it clearer. I am indeed convinced there is another M7 behind the first one....you can see the pullpit and the front armour with the antenna mount. It looks like a crew member is sitting on top of the front armor, just above the hatch, possibly lighting a sigaret or something. http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoels...acr/m7_07.html
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle Last edited by Alex van de Wetering; 30-03-22 at 13:14. |
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cargo
As I read the new regimental history of the Sherbrooke Fusilier Regiment, there are three vehicles mentioned all the time - 75mm Shermans, Fireflies and Stuarts. The echelon is almost never described, except in terms of the support they provided. Not the author's fault, just the emphasis of the War Diaries and sources.
Other passing mentions are the regiment's antiaircraft tanks, the artillery observer's tank, the Armoured Recovery Vehicle or ARV, and tracked ammunition carriers. Your M7 fits the purpose of the last type, namely mobile enough to follow the armour and common enough to be easily serviced. The Canadians by late 1944, the Canadian formations had enough experience and savoir faire to know what they wanted and willingly find it. Someone winked and pressed his arguments to the Ordnance Corps officer, who looked at the vehicles in his lines, and wondered how he was going to keep repositioning them as the battle moved. The M7s weren't required, so if someone was foolish enough to want them, let him have them.
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Terry Warner - 74-????? M151A2 - 70-08876 M38A1 - 53-71233 M100CDN trailer Beware! The Green Disease walks among us! |
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Re: Defrocked Priest in South Alberta Regt.
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H. |
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defrocked priest
To Hanno, Geoff, John and all the others,
Are there more pictures out there of these defrocked command and control or cargo versions of the priest vehicle? Were all of these used by the south alberta’s? Wim
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In flanders fields the poppies blow. Between the crosses row on row. |
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Unfrocked Priests.....
Hi there
The history of the 4th Canadian Armoured Brigade mentions a 'Battle Lorry Group' as part of Bde HQ. It consisted of 10 unfrocked Priests that that they had 'failed to turn in to Ordnance" after using them at Falaise. They were used as armoured ammunition and supply vehicles and as casevac vehicles. No pictures, unfortunately. Steve
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WW2 Canadian Army Vehicle Camouflage and Markings http://milifax2003.tripod.com/home03.htm |
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unfrocked priest
@ steve : thank you for the information.
Does anyone know what modifications were used on these priest tanks? interior layout etc. Wim
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In flanders fields the poppies blow. Between the crosses row on row. |
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Re: unfrocked priest
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SUNRAY SENDS AND ENDS :remember :support |
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Re: unfrocked priest
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Hanno
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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thanks guys
thanks for the info guys
Wim
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In flanders fields the poppies blow. Between the crosses row on row. |
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any new info come along since last time
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In flanders fields the poppies blow. Between the crosses row on row. |
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The only other information that I could find is from page 146 of the SAR regimental history “South Albertas”
“B Squadron had not yet got under way when Division informed Jefferson at 1320 that such an attack must be completed "today" and offered to send another infantry company to St. Lambert "if necessary." Apparently Wotherspoon accepted the offer as, within about forty minutes, a scratch company of Links (two platoons from C and one from D Company) under the command of Major R.F. Willson with about fifty-five all ranks) arrived at Hill 117 [the location of the SAR RHQ] in TCVs and an APC." …and… “Swatty decided to retain Willson's company of Links on 117 because he needed infantry, both for defence and to guard the swelling number of prisoners that Dave Currie was sending back from St. Lambert.” So the SAR may have acquired their defrocked Priest (APC) on the 19th of August, 1944. |
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John thanks for your reply.
Now a more specific question: who can tell me more about the fording kit attached to the above vehicle: size of the plates, construction, how was it fixed to the priest?
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In flanders fields the poppies blow. Between the crosses row on row. |
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There is a reference to the Battle Lorry Group, using defrocked Priests in the Regimental history of the Canadian Grenadier Guards published in 1965. (p282)
“Without delay the top of the hill, Point 262, was occupied. Here the scene was of the grimmest. Scores of corpses were scattered all about. The road was blocked with derelict vehicles. Several hundred wounded and some seven hundred loosely guarded prisoners were lying in an open field. The Poles, isolated for three days cried with relief, and mingling with our crews settled down to an international "brew up" and a square meal. Short of everything but courage, they had latterly held their ground by using weapons and ammunition taken from the Germans. These shortages were relieved by the arrival of Capt. Geo. Sherwood with five Priests of our Battle Lorry Group, which delivered food, ammunition and petrol. Turning about they loaded and evacuated the wounded, our new M.O. Capt. S. A. MacDonald assisting. Ten times that night the Priests made the round trip.” This was the time when CGG broke through to “Maczuga” to relieve the Polish Division on the 21st of Aug. 1944 |
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Thanks for the reference, John!
H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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Hope this helps, Hanno
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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hanno thank you
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In flanders fields the poppies blow. Between the crosses row on row. |
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It seems this defrocked Priest was a beloved photo-subject. The following shots are from the Bergen op Zoom city archives.
Alex Source: http://www.markiezenhof.nl
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle |
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle |
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Hotel De Draak is still there, the Ram OP isn´t. . .
By the way, De Draak (The Dragon) is the oldest hotel in the Netherlands. How old? Well, it was one of only two buildings which survived the great fire of 1397. . . Pic with my phone taken last July when I was there and happened to recall that location. Although the town square is quite large, all the medieval roads leading to it are narrow. It must have taken quite some effort to get all those vehicles there, and I can´t see the reason why, other than to show that one has taken posession of the town. H.
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
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I believe this photo is also of the same line up from the first photo. Except that the RAM OP has now moved up to be in line with the other tanks and the jeeps have moved.
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Jordan Baker RHLI Museum, Otter LRC C15A-Wire3, 1944 Willys MB, 1942 10cwt Canadian trailer |
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Reference your third image of 'Priest' Kangaroo T214613. On 29 August 1944, 'Priest' Kangaroo - WD No. S214613 - was issued to: 10 Cdn Inf Bde (4 Cdn Armd Div) - from: E Sqn, 25 Cdn Armd Del Regt (2 Cdn Corps). Cheers
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Mark |
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ford lynx?
Whilst browsing trough the website that alex mentioned, I found a picture of what appears to be a ford lynx with the number F496358
Does anybody know which unit this vehicle belonged to?
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In flanders fields the poppies blow. Between the crosses row on row. |
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Wim,
The archives show two or three scout cars parked on the same "Grote markt". One seems to show a "45", which can also be seen on some of the Chev's as well. Given Mark's reaction about the defrocked Priest. The Humbers could be part of the Canadian Armoured Corps, 29th Armoured Reconnaissance Reg., 4th Canadian Armoured Division. Alex
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Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW BSA Folding Bicycle |
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